|
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Please help me here. If you own a 1537, go open up the back and tell me what you see. I looked inside mine and I see a nice close grained spruce soundboard (it's even varnished on my older one). But looking towards the upper bout area, there is another layer of wood sandwiched to the soundboard. It's not spruce and it looks rotated 90 degrees to the spruce. It's very thin and tapered at the lower edge. So the bridge end of the guitar looks like solid spruce, but the epaulet end is a sandwich (plywood?). I thought I was seeing things, so I popped open the other 1537 I currently have and low and behold it's exactly the same. Are they all like this? Does everyone already know this except me? Are all Elite style guitars like this? Dave
 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Mine has the same, completely flush with the underside of the spruce. I had noticed this before but figured it was well known. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | looks to me like a solid top with unique horizontal bracing...might have reduced a number of finish cracks, etc., if O had a couple of thin horizontal strips between the bridge and bottom (under or over the vertical bracing).
interesting - "varnished on my older one"...now that you probably have new strings on it - any difference between the two? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | flush? in other words, a two piece backing - one upper and one lower? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | By flush, I mean... mine looks like Dave's pictures but, in his photos there is a bit of an illusion which makes it look like there is a difference in thickness in the spruce and the 90 degree piece under the epaulet, when in fact there is no variation in thickness
....The underside of the lower bout is the same piece of wood as the top side, but this is not the case in the upper bout where the underside has the tranverse grain. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Jeff, I disagree. I run my hand over the "joint" and you can feel how the upper bout gently tapers to a thicker overall thickness (sounds odd, but you know what I mean). I've nevr seen anything like this. May it's what gives the 1537 the "mojo". If this is limited to only the 1537, I can understand how it would be a bitch to produce and maybe why it only lived a few years. I also notice that my '83 is varnished on the inside of the soundboard and the '84 is not. But they sound identical. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Can you feel the seperation between the woods at the joint?
Does it look as tho they rabbieted the spruce and placed on the plywood and then thickness sanded the two flush or just taper sanded the plywood? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Dave answered my question while I was typing it....He's magic! ;) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Dave,
I wasn't being clear, In your photos it looks like there is a lip where the pieces are joined, when, in fact (at least on mine), the joint is smooth and uniform thickness.
It is hard to tell whether the upper bout gradually thickens as it approaches the neck, because of the epualets, but it may well. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | There is no lip. They taper sanded the ply. Jeff, I'm almost sure it thinkens. As I run my hand along the soundboard it's nice and smooth until the "joint". You don't feel the joint but you do feel like your now going up a small ramp. Overall this is VERY nicely done. I just never noticed it before. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Confirmed. Using a modified cailper I was able to measure about 3/32 difference in the thickness of the soundboard. From the joint to the neck block. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Maybe (I'm guessing) they used the plywood for renforcement up near where they drilled all those weakening holes and leaving it nice and thin down by the bridge so the top could vibriate better!
The reason 1537's sound so good may be that the spruce top is much thinner than other multi-hole models but so thin that the area around the holes would snap and break easy.
I guess I should pull the cover on my Elites and take a look.......I'll be bakkk |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Hey guys, I just pulled the covers off the backs of my '93 collector and my standard Elite and found that the '93 (which btw sound fantastic!) has the same piece of plywood as the 1537's but that the standard Elite is one piece!
I'll posts pics as soon as I can downsize my camera from 1200 x 1600 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | The Std Elite (bottom photo) has small pieces of plywood bracing the sound holes (not even tapered)
 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Anyone have an Elite, Custom Elite or Elite LX they can look in and see if All multi-holes(except the economic Std. Elites) are constructed like the 1537's?
I don't mean to highjack this thread or step on Dave's discovery but now I"m curious too! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | 1778LX - Just a little bridge plate between the X brace. About 2" long. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Don't worry about hijacking the thread. Heck, this is kind of discussion I enjoy. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | :D Actually I'm trying to catch Cliff in # of posts.........and get way from Hal Jordan :eek: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Thanks Woody, I'd forgot that LX's are X braced and not Quintad. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 26
Location: NYC | I have a Std. Elite LX, and while I haven't looked in from the back, I noticed right after I bought it that there seemed to be an additional piece of wood by sticking a finger in from the top through the soundholes and kind of poking around. I figured that it was reinforcement for the top in the upper bout because it is routed out in order for the epaulets to be inlaid flush. The loss of thickness (and strength) is compensated for by the additional wood underneath. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Rocky River, Ohio | guys,
ovation has advertised this in their catalogs in the late 80's, the one with 1758 12 string elite on the back cover..
on the page where the elites are showcased, it says REINFORCED WITH BURCH VENEER IN THE UPPER BOUT FOR OUTSTANDING HIGHS..
check it out..
ernie |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Ernie nails it! Great work. So much for multi-ply tops not sounding any good, eh? Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Same birch that's used in the Adamas sandwich? That's a pretty good pedigree.
My 2000 with a ply top sounds damn fine too. I had the 1537 out yesterday and yeah, I'd say it sets a standard for ply top guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 375
Location: Rocky River, Ohio | thanks dave...
the ironic thing is that a couple of years later, when ovation introduced the new pearl white paint jobs, they had a one page ad for elites in all the guitar mags at the time...
if you read the ad, it talks all about the advantages of solid tops and the special braces on the elite that run parallel to the grain, and that laminate tops and braces that run across the grain make for a lower quality sound...
in a way it was false advertising as the elite had a veneer on the soundboard that indeed ran across the grain..check that one out...i think jerome probably has that ad in his scanned collection on his great website...
ernie |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | OK, my 2005 Custom Elite LX (which has the scalloped bracing) DOES have the accessory bracing around the holes. Similar to the bottom picture in Trboy's post above.
GREAT :mad:
Now we gotta put up with plastic bowls AND plywood tops! :eek: :D |
|
| |
1537 Has Plywood Top ???
