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Location: Phoenix AZ | You know, I suspected this for about 6 months. My own ears tell me so, and yesterday two other people came to the same conclusion.
I have a cutaway Adamas I (1587-5) that has always BLOWN ME AWAY as far as acoustic unplugged sound. To my ears, from the players position, it always sounded better then my Slothead 47RI. Deeper, louder, clearer, crisper. Yesterday I played both guitars for two musician friends of mine, and then THEY played the guitars to me.
Conclusion was unaminous. The 1587 was chosen by all of us. Now I realize that judging what you hear, or trusting what others hear is HIGHLY subjective and about as relivent as decribing the taste of ice. But my question is ... is the 47RI (or it's original brother slothead) REALLY the best sounding adamas? I think that it SHOULD be and probably 95% of the time it IS. But the mind does strange things. I wonder if the pricetag, the visual beauty, and the historical significance of the slothead guitars clouds our ability to hear it objectively?
Not trying to step on any sacred (slothead) toes here. Maybe my case is an isolated one, strings, whatever. Or maybe my aural capacity is just all screwed up from listewning to conservative talk radio. Believe me on a scale of 1-100 these guitars are both in the > 95% category. I just wonder if anyone else has had any similar observations.
Dave |
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Location: Athens, GA & Gnashville | From my experience, your results are not surprising. It has been my experience that bridge placement has always been more important to the sound any given guitar design than the headstock angle or type.
A lot of great sounding slotheads have 12 fret neck placement to the body. Coincidence?
Also, I am a big believer in individual guitars that just naturally standout from the crowd. This so obvious that I feel stupid typing it. But, I feel stupid a lot! :cool: |
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Location: SoCal | That's interesting. The other thing to consider, is that as consistant as the quality is in Ovations, there are going to be variances from guitar to guitar. Some guitars, that shouldn't sound good (like your Academy)sound damned nice.
There are also string variances and just day to day quirks. I have days where certain guitars sound great, and others where they don't. I can't explain it.
I do know that last October, when I was at your house, your 47RI sounded better to me than any other guitar you had there. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | I think "best sounding Adamas" may be hard to get a lot of agreement on. I bought a 47 RI because everyone who played one seemed to agree it was somethng special. It's certainly the nicest Adamas I've ever played - but that's not saying a lot. I wouldn't be dissapointed if there was an Adamas everyone said sounded much better and a 47. I would still love my 47 and just really want to check out the other guitar.
If your 1587 sounds better than your 47, I'd say you have some great sounding guitars! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | What sounds "best" is so subjective. I don't have access to many guitars other than my own and I have tried to obtain a variety of Ovations. Sometimes the Ute sounds best, but sometimes I just don't like the Adamas sound as much as the traditional Ovation sound. There are many days when the Folklore seems like the best sounding guitar.
All our perceptions are clouded by other factors. I have trouble listening to the Folklore without factoring in what I great deal I got on it.
When I visited Dave his guitar inventory was different and he had recently purchased the Norman Blake. Although he was enamored with it, I wasn't and I wasn't all that impressed with the FD-14, in part because I couldn't hear how it was that much better than the Folklore I had just obtained. The guitar I thought sounded best was the John Lennon, which Dave recently sold. Reviewing Dave's guitars in a 1 hour visit is kind of like running through a museum and trying to do a critique of the art, however. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | My point actually was not meant to compare guitars. I was trying to pose the question what happens if all other external influences are blocked. If we had no perception of what the guitars looked like, how they felt in our hands, how much they cost, etc. would our ears hear things in a less biased way?
Dave
PS - Moody, I didn't have the A1 cutaway when you were here.
PSS - Talk about subjective! The same two people who agreed with me on the great sound of the 1587 also listened to some of my other guitars. Upon hearing the Collings remark from one person was "steller", and from the other "very ordinary". |
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Location: Colorado | Would surprise me...designed and built in the mid 70s verses later...a lot can be learned..even with the re issues - they were replicating something from 30 years ago. I'd like to think I play better now too...unfortunately - not the case. |
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Location: Colorado | I actually meant to say ---Would NOT surprise me...too quick on the click |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Can anyone really listen objectively? If they could, I wouldn't be trying to convince a jury of something this week. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Dave, it could also be the type of strings. I have kept records of my string changes for a few years on each guitar and come to the conclusion that they make a huge difference in the sound.
My 47 sounded good....but somewhat dull and a bit lifeless until I found the strings that brought her to life.
and like someone else mentioned, there is always a few guitars that become "special" regardless of the make, model, or price associated with it.
From a consistency standpoint of sound, build quality and mojo, I think the slotheads are probably the best.....but I also feel that there are more than a few individual guitars that give it a run for its money. |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Hoo boy, here we go. The best sounding guitar? Of course, it's one of mine. Sometimes I think my 1614 sounds as good or better than my 1681, untill I play the 1681 again, then I play the 1614, then the 1681....etc...etc......... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | It is really hard to compare guitars like that. Is the 1587 broken in? Is the RI broken in. One of the reasons the original slotheads and specifically Cliff's sound so great, is they have been played for so many years that the tops vibrate and radiate REALLY well. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Goober:
From my experience, your results are not surprising. It has been my experience that bridge placement has always been more important to the sound any given guitar design than the headstock angle or type.
A lot of great sounding slotheads have 12 fret neck placement to the body. Coincidence :cool: Dumb Question from the Uninitiated-- It is often said (and this makes sense), that the best placement of the bridge is in the center of the lower bout...
If that is true, why aren't more (if not All) guitars made with that configuration? :confused: |
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Location: SoCal | Same reason that people want cutaways.... more frets to play. Once you go to 14 frets, to keep the scale right, you've got to move the bridge. |
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Location: Scotland | That's why I ordered my Custom Folklore as a 12-fret cutaway |
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Location: SoCal | And why I bought a 1773LX and sold my 1674.....I went from 14 frets and so so sound to 12 frets and very good sound.... |
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Location: NJ | tuppy has tin ears
why listen to him |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Slotheads give a big heavy mass,was n`t it Leo Fender who discovered ,that by increasing the mass of the head,it would increase sustain due to prolonged vibrations through the neck ?! :)
Vic |
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Location: SoCal | Well said, Al.... |
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Location: Buffalo,NY | I don't know the two guitars that you are referencing as I have never had the opportunity to play or hear them . What I do know is that sound is very subjective especially when you are expecting a certain guitar to be "better " than another.
One of the best way to get around this subjectiveness is to listen to both guitars in a blinded fashion . I have done this with a number of amps and speakers and was really surprised how much my expectations influence my hearing. When done in a blinded fashion , I came to a different conclusion on a number of occasions.
I now try to just close my eyes and trust me ears. So if an inexpensive guitar sounds beter than a more expensive model, so be it and I'm not afraid to admit it any more !
But even doing this has its pitfalls because of the effect a room has on sound. But it still helps tremendously when you can't see what is being played and have to rely on only sound.
Regards,
Tom |
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Location: big island | i suggest conducting a blindfold hearing test with the participants and several different guitars at this year's tour. perhaps just to see if folks can recognize the sounds of the different guitars. |
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Location: SoCal | As I mentioned earlier, when I played Dave's 47of47 I thought it sounded better than anything else that he had at that time. That's part of the reason I'm getting an OFC guitar.
As everybody knows, I've played an Adamas I 12 string ("Big Blue")for about 11 years. I've always thought that it was the best sounding 12 out there. But I've never purchased an Adamas 6 string. I've played plenty of Adamii I's and II's, but I've always just assumed that I'm a wood topped kinda guy.
But in playing Dave's 47of47 next to various wood topped Ovations and other box guitars, I kept coming back to it as the best guitar he had. And I was surprised by that. I thought for certain that his custom built custom legend slothead wide neck would appeal to me greatly. But it sounded tame next to the 47.
Now I'm looking forward to playing his Adamas I cutaway. But I also know that what appeals to Dave doesn't always appeal to me. So we'll see... |
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Location: big island | i know that it would not be completely fair to judge a guitar by how it sounded on the tour dvds, however, i was unimpressed by the UTEs i heard and the 47RI. i decided to not buy a UTE after watching the video. the player was fabulous, but i heard "lesser" guitars on the video that sounded much better to my ears. no offense intended to those who love these guitars. just my ears doin' the talkin'. |
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Location: ranson,wva | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
It is really hard to compare guitars like that. Is the 1587 broken in? Is the RI broken in. One of the reasons the original slotheads and specifically Cliff's sound so great, is they have been played for so many years that the tops vibrate and radiate REALLY well. i play my adamas about a 2-3hrs every day. i figure in 25-30yrs it will open up..lol
ive only played 3 slothead adamas's but i have owned several slothead ovations and in my own opinion they just sound better. anyone who has doubts is more than welocme to play my old folklore at the tour...jason |
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Posts: 153
| Dave's comments regarding the #47 reissue is a subject that I have wanted to address since purchasing one a couple of months ago. Not being a fan of the color red, I purchased the guitar solely based upon the "rarity" factor, and the "hype" that this guitar has received from other owners.
Up to now, I have reserved my comments in an effort to not offend anyone who thinks his #47 reissue is the best guitar produced, ever. However, now that Dave have dared to broach the subject, I will offer my observations.
Does the #47 reissue sound good? Absolutely. Does the #47 reissue live up to its' reputation. Probably. Is the #47 worth the price it commands? Certainly. Is the #47 reissue a "keeper"? At this point, I think so..
But, does the #47 reissue "blow me away"? No.
It is an extrememly balanced guitar that sounds good in any position and on every fret. The worksmanship is superb, and without a doubt on-par or better than that which I've seen in 36 years of collecting Ovations. And, in my opinion, tonally, it will rival any expensive all-wood guitar of any brand.
Several weeks ago, though, I acquired a 1981 Adamas I for half the price, that sounds as good or better than the #47, and it actually plays better than the #47, as difficult that that may seem.
But, it isn't really just or equitable to compare the two, because they are two completely different guitars. I like both of them for different reasons.
The bottom line is that tone is subjective. What sounds good to one guitar player may not sound good to another. And, to purchase a guitar sight unseen, based upon the recommendation of another person is a gamble any way you look at it. That's the reason that most of the guitars that I have purchased on eBay have been sold on eBay. |
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Slothead NOT the best sounding adamas ?
