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Location: Texas | I was in my local guitar shop the other day - they had a few ovations. I sat down to play and he questioned my decision to switch from collecting Eletrics to collecting ovations/Adamas guitars. He said he can't give away the ovations he has. I told he could just load them up in my car and I would take them off his hands - I came home empty handed though. :D
My question to the OFC - Why isn't ovation doing more to get their guitars in the hands of well known artist - In the 70's and 80's they had the market - Loggins and Messina, Heart etc.
The only well known player now is Mellisa Etheridge. Kiki doesn't count - I can beat a guitar all day too and I don't have to be a good guitarist to do what she does.
They basically let Taylor and Martin take over. Most of us have some very expensive guitars. If Ovation/Adamas doesn't return to the table and get their market share back, what does that mean to the value of our guitars in the future? |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | maybe artists are richer, and they afford to play on better / more expensive guitars?
maybe they want some "bling" that ovation doesn't deliver? come on, those "leafs" are crappy. old folk guitars from polish mountains had those leafs, and if you pay few thousand dollars for a guitar you want something that not only plays great but also looks good.
the other thing is that i prefer older ovations. i own '79 legend and neck is great for me. On my CP2002 (i know - celebrity) neck is mediocre at best. it's not profilled well.
i've played on a 4 ovation guitars in Polish shop (yes, we have a dealer for a few months!) - 2 celebs - 44CDX, CS...257?? and one elite LX and one Adamas 2080, and none of them were as easy to play as my legend.
Celebrities were set up awfully, with strings 5.5 mm over 12th fret and intonation way off
Elite wasn't much better, neck wasn't adjusted d there was a lot of buzzing, not to mention not working tuner in electronics.
Adamas was good, guite playable, but to be hones - for Polish price of 13,500 zl (it's my 9 months wage - about 4,500$) it's waaay too much. for about the same price there is taylor 914CE which is superior to this Adamas (to my ears).
i don't think Ovation need better artists, they need to make better guitars.
ps.
what is fair price for mint-condition 1986 Collectors? |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I know it.
You know it.
We know it.
After almost 4 years of talking about it.
I know there's nothing gonna be done about it. |
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Posts: 325
Location: Texas | You might have some good points but no one in the 70's and 80's had a problem with the leaf epis. I think it makes it a very special guitar from all other guitars whether it be Martin or Taylor that all look the same. I don't think it gay's it up as someone on the boards mentioned. :rolleyes: I know that remark about Taylors and Martins will get me killed lol - but it is true...they can use exotic wood and put some bling on it but they still all have the same basic design.
Old folks guitars because of the leaf epis? People can be like sheep....if one popular guitarist plays Taylor - they all play Taylor. Ovation and Adamas has some excellent high end guitars that can make some Taylors and Martins cry with their booming sound.
Celebrities and Applause are in a world of their own - Koren made- you can't compare those to the higher end models.
The problem - if you sit back just because you have the market - the market will take you over. I know- the company I worked for had the market share for 40 years and thought they could not be touched - well, they got touched - badly - for the simple reason, they were complacent with their marketing.
Ovation could get it all back by getting out there and getting endorsements from well known players. These younger players :rolleyes: could be introduced to these guitars and fall in love with them - just like everyone did in the 70's and 80's. Marketing people....marketing!!!!!!
Fair price for a mint 1986 Collectors - 600.00 and maybe a little more.
BTW - can't you purchase a guitar from the US - I know the shipping can be high and you have to pay customs - but wouldn't you still save money? |
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Posts: 325
Location: Texas | Skipkid - maybe letters to the powers to be would help. I might be living in a dream world but someone has to shake that tree. These guitars are too damn good for them not to be in the hands of the top performers. |
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Location: SoCal | Vision, look thru the archives. You'll find this subject discussed ad nauseum..... |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i've played on one '86 collectors and i love it.
in poland there is one in mint condition for $1200.
if someone on board would have one for sale for less i'd think about it, but i haven't found any on e-bay or sth. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | On the Ovation site, they have a video of Lacuna Coil.
Don't know where they are from, but they look like they are from Portland. :rolleyes: Or Seattle, some Caffeine-Junkie place. So I downloaded a bunch of their music. (listening now) It is listed as Gothic Rock. So I guess they will get famous, then commit mass suicide.
Anyway, I guess the PR boys got a clue.
BTW-- They ain't half-bad. Chick's Voices! :cool: |
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Location: Texas | Old Man Arthur - maybe I am out of touch but I never heard of Lacuna Coil. I will have to check it out however, this is not a house hold named guitarist. Help us Mother Ship!!!! LOL |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | Lacuna Coil IS famous. I've been on 2 their concerts in Poland |
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Location: Texas | I am sure he is but is he in the US? Jan Ackermann is an incredible guitarist from New Zealand - one of the best but how many people in this country know him? |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i don't know if they're famous in USA, in Europe - they're. I've been on their concerts in '00 (??) and in '05, and i wait for another.
for me, if it comes to gothic they're in 1st league |
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Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | I can't believe I'm about to write this for the nth time, but here goes...
Ovation will never, ever break out of the malaise that thay have been in for the last 25 years until they get rid of the fucking plastic bowl. It is the one single thing that the majority of buyers state as their reason not to buy ovation. "It slips off your knee, it's doesn't sound woody, it looks cheap", whatever. Doesn't matter if those comments are true or not. If that's the reason someone isn't buying your product then you need to either live with it or do something about it. If you want to compete with Martin, Taylor, and the likes then you need to level the playing field. And don't give me this bullshit about parabolic acoustics and blah, blah, blah... To my ears (and I'm the one with the credit card in my hand) it's all a bunch of bullshit. I do (and have) owned plenty of guitars and if I rank them according to acoustic tone and "desire to purchase" from best to worst, the top of the list is dominated by the wooden boxes. So don't tell me you need a plastic bowl to make a guitar sound good. It ain't true. Quality control is another huge issue. The quality of some of the guitars that make it out the shipping door is just appalling. Would some paid endorsees help? Probably would. But I agree with a previous poster on this thread, better off to put your efforts into building a better instrument. If you truely want to be considered side by side with the likes of Martin and Taylor than do the obvious thing - build a similar guitar of similar quality. I know that Ovation has the skilled workers to do it. Get rid of that damn plastic bowl and buyers will give Ovation a serious nod. Otherwise it's just the roundback homos and oldtimers like us that'll be keeping the lights on.
Just my personal opinion of course.
Dave
PS - Get rid of that damn plastic bowl. Please. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Vision, go to the Ovation homepage, they got a clip of them sitting in an art gallery or someplace do a little gig. They're pretty good. And I'm hoping that they are getting FREE Elite T's.
edit-- My bad, it is a fancy shopping mall, and they are signing guitars and such. I had earlier seen Celebrity's on eBaaa "signed by Lacuna Coil". And I had never heard of them. I also have an attitude about signed guitar. I just wanna play the sucker, I don't care who signed it. And just cuz Melissa Etheridge signed a Celebrity, it is still a Celebrity. Now if she wants to give me a signed MEII...
Oh yeah, their music is on Underworld Evolution. (vampire/werewolf movie) |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i think the best thing some company should start doing is inventing better bridge for acoustic guitar. i have yet to play acoustic guitar that has perfect intonation. when i can move saddles under strings, i can always set my electric perfectly, but on acoustic i have to learn how to avoid out-of-tune areas or sth.
examples:
Crafter ED50-CEQ:
differences between natural harmonics on 12th fret and pressed string on 12th fret:
E-0,22hz+ A - 0,17 hz+ D - 0,43+ hz G - 0,11-, B - 1,4 hz - (!) e - 0,33 hz-
Ovation Celebrity cp2002:
E- 0,11 hz +, A - 0,27 hz +, D - 0,16 hz +, G - 0,16 hz +, B, 0,3 hz + e - 0,67 hz +
i haven't tested my Legend yet, and it has old strings now (almost 2 months) but i expect average results from this guitar.
PS.
about comparing Celebrities to higher end models:
in Poland, CDX44 costs 4000 zl (over 1,500$) and CS257 costs 3299 zl (about 1200$) so they have to be competitive with higher end Yamaha's - CPX / APX, Furch guitars (Czech hand made guitars) and others, and they fail miserabely. i would buy CDX44... but for 1500 zl (500$), not 4000. |
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Location: Texas | Old Man Arthur, I did see their clip - they are good - when Jefferson said they were gothic, I almost cringed :) But they don't look gothic to me. I love Underworld - I will have to watch it again to hear them. :)
Dave - tell us how do you really feel. :) Look, if that f***ing plastic bowl is such a problem why did so many artist play them in the 70's and 80's and why are some still playing them in 2007? I have tried a very good Taylor and it doesn't come close to my #47 or even the Adamas MEII 12 string. Maybe my ears are not as evovled as yours but I think they sound better.
After seeing Lacuna play - lo and behold - they are sitting and I don't see them having a problem keeping the guitar in their lap.
There are things you can buy - slip resistant strips - there is also a piece you can put on the guitar to keep it close to the body or maybe not having a beer gut will help lol
If you hate them so much, why do you have them?
To say that it's just the roundback homos and oldtimers like us that'll be keeping the lights on.....that is pretty much insulting. IMHO |
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Posts: 325
Location: Texas | PS.
about comparing Celebrities to higher end models:
in Poland, CDX44 costs 4000 zl (over 1,500$) and CS257 costs 3299 zl (about 1200$) so they have to be competitive with higher end Yamaha's - CPX / APX, Furch guitars (Czech hand made guitars) and others, and they fail miserabely. i would buy CDX44... but for 1500 zl (500$), not 4000.
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Jefferson - you need to take a vacation to the US so you can get those celebrities for a much cheaper price. :) |
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Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | i wanted to go to a vacation to USA last year, but i didn't get visa. They didn't believe me that i really want to go to usa only to see Chicago Bulls in playoffs.
but now, since my GAS attacks are more frequent than ever, i don't think i'll afford vacation in USA. |
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Location: south east Michigan | To say that it's just the roundback homos and oldtimers like us that'll be keeping the lights on.....that is pretty much insulting. IMHO That's just Dave being Dave. It never hurts to have someone around that prods you to challenge your own beliefs. And wether at times he sounds like it or not, he is still an Ovation fan...... I think. |
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Location: Texas | Wow - you couldn't get a visa for just a visit - that is strange. We need to launch an investigation. :) |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Wake me up when someone has ANYTHING new- or even interesting to add to this topic... |
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Posts: 325
Location: Texas | That's just Dave being Dave. It never hurts to have someone around that prods you to challenge your own beliefs. And wether at times he sounds like it or not, he is still an Ovation fan...... I think.
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Yep, I know that is Dave being Dave but as much as he tries, he will not challenge my beliefs that ovations are great guitars. :D
I am glad he isn't a fan of the Dallas Cowbys, I would hate to hear his review on them LOL |
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Posts: 325
Location: Texas | Well Jeff - I have only been on the site since July - I didn't know there was a massive discussion in the archives. My Bad :eek: Besides, it is dusty in there. |
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Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Okayy...the Lyracord Bowl and the EPI`s are the signature of a TRUE Ovation,CFMartin is manufaturing plastic boxed guitars that look like wood,I expect that in time,the color will wear off ,imagine how they `ll look like then..?!..the complaints about the set-up on a New guitar are Unfair !!...Any New guitar has to be set-up properly when Purchased,that goes for Any guitar,incl. Martin`s ..in another thread TraderJim mentioned eventual differences in sound by adjusting saddle-height,Hmm...first adjust Neck / Nut / Saddle = Playability.....then : adjust Tone by choice of strings / gauge / type / etc. ..and the Ovation box(incl. the deep-bowl) is much smaller than a Dreadnought,but why stop there..?..compare it to a Jumbo..a Cello even..Yes,gauge 12-54 on a Dread will be "fuller sounding" compared to a deep-bowl,but,ever tried to stack several Dread`s against oneanother(strung with the same string/gauge/type/brand),only to notice the Difference in sound..?..perception of Sound is a rather individual something,but Technique can be a different matter,where an Ovation really Shines,is when it is used with Amplification,it is the most FeedBackResistant acoustic that I know,Sure..there are electronic gizmo`s for sale that can fight feedback better than Paris Hilton can tackle a shoestore,but how will those affect the sound of a Martin/Taylor/Gibson(that bunch of carpenters) ,or Larrivee (talk about something real good)..the Ovation`s that I have,1537 Elite sunburst (1983)..1618 Legend natural 12 string (1982)..1617 Legend sunburst (1976)..have vol./tone only,Plugged into an Amp. ,meant for Electric guitar,they still sound like Good ,feedbackresistant Acoustics,I dare say,that Ovation`s are The Best A/E guitars on the market,which brings us to "Marketing"....sometime ago I wanted an Ovation Jumbo,and mentioned it here on the board,I argued, since that many other makes have "Jumbo`s" on their repertoire,Ovation should have one too..I still want one !!(looking with halfaneye at retired gasstation-owners)..ah,Repertoire,good word that,imagine the rolling pebles playing "STRAUSS"..actually,a famous ,FAMOUS!!RockBand Deep Purple has played with a symphonic orchestra,but what came of it ??..they are still known as a rockband,..!!..Loose the Bowl..??..Chuck out Innovation ..??..and then what,make Dread`s the "Old Way"...with an Ovation-twist perhaps,maybe something like..half of the braces chunky,and have the other half "scalloped",paint some birds on it,or the counterfeit of arnie schwarzenegger...options Ad Libitum..!!..Yet I agree with Dave ; Dump the price !!..I wanna get a few more ..!!..(incl. a Jumbo)..what exactly is the complaint about..??..is Ovation about to be bankrupt ?..just asking :)
Vic
..Any-one who can play like Kaki King has my Deepest Respect.. ( and Envy) |
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Location: Texas | THANK YOU VIC....I think I love you LOL :D :D
Ovation will never go bankrupt as long as there are....in Dave's own words...roundback homos and oldtimers like us that'll be keeping the lights on. |
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New Marketing needed
