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1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...
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DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | I found this sad guitar on Reverb.com. Everything seems to be in good shape except the top and bridge. I'll be working on this guitar in tandem with my brother's 1528 Ultra.
I love the use of the wing-nuts. Hey! In an emergency, you use what you got! | ||
tpa |
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Joined: December 2004 Posts: 566 Location: Denmark | DanSavage - 2016-12-28 5:58 PM This might even be a more optimistic description than an honest seller could have given. Where most other see a show stopper and run away You see an opportunity ... Everything seems to be in good shape except the top and bridge.... I don't really understand the screws, except for clamping while glue cures. I would not expect them to be of value when it comes to string pull and such. Edited by tpa 2016-12-29 2:53 PM | ||
leonardmccoy |
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Joined: December 2015 Posts: 287 Location: Katmandu | Brutal, brutal wing-nuts... | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | tpa - 2016-12-29 12:46 PM DanSavage - 2016-12-28 5:58 PM This might even be a more optimistic description than an honest seller could have given. Where most other see a show stopper and run away You see an opportunity ... Everything seems to be in good shape except the top and bridge.... I don't really understand the screws, except for clamping while glue cures. I would not expect them to be of value when it comes to string pull and such. Thanks. The weight of the screws do provide extra mass which really enhances the bass sustain. :D Kidding aside, I do like how it sounds, so I'm going to be duplicating the brace pattern, but with a slight modification to the two main outside braces. I'm probably going to taper the cross-section to remove a little mass to improve the response, but keep the stiffness. | ||
Love O Fair |
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Joined: February 2016 Posts: 1802 Location: When?? | I think I remember seeing that guitar for sale online and wondering, "Who in their right mind would buy this??" Well, now I know :-) Come on, Dan. Ya just gotta leave the washers on the bridge. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | No worries there. The bolts, wingnuts and washers are all staying with this top. Besides the holes, someone also shaved down the bridge, making it unusable for anything but storing screw hardware. :-D | ||
Cavalier |
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Joined: March 2013 Posts: 359 Location: undisclosed | Good donor guitar! | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Cleaned up the lining so the body is ready to have the top joined. Next job is to start jointing the top and making the braces.
Edited by DanSavage 2017-01-10 1:34 PM | ||
DarenSavage |
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Joined: December 2016 Posts: 128 | Did you use the heat gun to clean the lining. It looks really clean and white. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | No. I tried, but the glue was pretty much heat-proof. Definitely an aerospace-grade epoxy, unlike the 1528. I had to do this one the old-fashioned way and plane and scrape it down to the old glue joint. There are still some glue-globs that need to be ground down, but for the most part, this bowl is ready for the top. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | I was able to joint the top in preparation for joining and rough cut the braces. I'm planning to join the tops for all four guitars at the same time so that I can take them down to the sanders and have them all thickness sanded together. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Got the top outline rough cut, sound hole cut, bridge alignment pin holes drilled and braces glued. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Top is being glued. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | I got to a stopping point because I didn't want to use the bankers box any more to route the binding/purfling channels.
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BCam |
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Joined: October 2014 Posts: 270 | Nicely done, creative, simple and inexpensive. Good jigs make for good, accurate work. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Thanks, Bob. | ||
Love O Fair |
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Joined: February 2016 Posts: 1802 Location: When?? | I fully agree. Nice jig. Some of the videos I watch of people working on guitars.. yikes! Knocking them around on a dirty workbench like they're mounting a tire or something. Glad they aren't mine. | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Back to work on this one.
I use an acid brush to spread the glue inside the grooves and between the layers of purfling/binding. I use an Xacto knife (LL) to trim the brush. (LR) The brush comes with long bristles, but the long bristles just drag across the glue instead of pushing it down into the joint where it needs to be. The shorter bristles make it easier to brush/push the glue between the layers. With this job, more glue is better.
Glue is dry. Removed the tape to see the raw binding job. Purfling/binding is scraped down. At this point, the top is ready for final bridge alignment check in preparation for masking and finishing.
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Love O Fair |
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Joined: February 2016 Posts: 1802 Location: When?? | This is the part where I hope you will do some close up shots and detailed explanation since I still don't quite understand how the frets are trimmed so close, smooth and precisely flush with the edges of the fingerboard without disturbing or damaging the wood. | ||
arumako |
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Joined: October 2012 Posts: 1034 Location: Yokohama, Japan | Kewl! Coming along nicely Dan. What kind of adhesive are you using for the binding and purfling - ZAP thin CA? I tried some Japanese acrylic binding glue and it just isn't working. The brass strip especially seems to make things tricky for my 1868! You make it look so easy! By the way, is that wood purfling? Did you use any heat to pre-bend the binding and/or purfling? Ooh, sorry. Don't mean to pester! Edited by arumako 2017-05-14 1:14 AM | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | Love O Fair - 2017-05-13 10:25 PM This is the part where I hope you will do some close up shots and detailed explanation since I still don't quite understand how the frets are trimmed so close, smooth and precisely flush with the edges of the fingerboard without disturbing or damaging the wood. Fretting tutorials are all over the interwebs. Here's one that FlySig did. A beginners guide to re-fretting your guitar Basically, you use fret trimmer and a file to get the fret close to the wood, but you have to use them with care so you don't damage the wood. Dan | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | arumako - 2017-05-13 11:09 PM Kewl! Coming along nicely Dan. What kind of adhesive are you using for the binding and purfling - ZAP thin CA? I tried some Japanese acrylic binding glue and it just isn't working. The brass strip especially seems to make things tricky for my 1868! You make it look so easy! By the way, is that wood purfling? Did you use any heat to pre-bend the binding and/or purfling? Ooh, sorry. Don't mean to pester! Not pestering at all. I use IPS Weld-On 16 Acrylic glue for the BWB and purfling. Duco Cement works, too. When I bound Daren's 1528, I had to use thin CA because the acrylic glue wouldn't grab onto the vinyl sheathing that carries the abalone. Once I got the BWB and abalone glued down, then I was able to use the acrylic glue to glue in the binding. Yeah, brass would be a really difficult material to use for purfling. Acrylic glue won't work at all because it can't get a bite on the brass, even if you roughed it up with sandpaper. The problem is that the brass can't absorb the glue and the glue is too brittle. Even CA doesn't work well with brass. The only glue that would work would be something like Hysol. Even if you do get the brass glued into place, sanding or scraping it down so it's level with the top is going to be a chore. It's Stewmac BWB purfling. There's actually two strips: one, outer is BWB and the other, the inner, is BWBW. The white in the purfling is maple, the black is fiber, like a thick paper. The trick with purfling and binding is to decide what pattern you want to use, then route the binding and purfling groove to match. Practice helps, too. I route the binding groove first, then go back and route the purfling groove. I glue all three at the same time, working a few inches at a time. Nope, didn't pre-bend them at all. They're thin so they bend easy enough. | ||
arumako |
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Joined: October 2012 Posts: 1034 Location: Yokohama, Japan | DanSavage - 2017-05-14 6:39 AM Not pestering at all. I use IPS Weld-On 16 Acrylic glue for the BWB and purfling. Duco Cement works, too. When I bound Daren's 1528, I had to use thin CA because the acrylic glue wouldn't grab onto the vinyl sheathing that carries the abalone. Once I got the BWB and abalone glued down, then I was able to use the acrylic glue to glue in the binding. Yeah, brass would be a really difficult material to use for purfling. Acrylic glue won't work at all because it can't get a bite on the brass, even if you roughed it up with sandpaper. The problem is that the brass can't absorb the glue and the glue is too brittle. Even CA doesn't work well with brass. The only glue that would work would be something like Hysol. Even if you do get the brass glued into place, sanding or scraping it down so it's level with the top is going to be a chore. It's Stewmac BWB purfling. There's actually two strips: one, outer is BWB and the other, the inner, is BWBW. The white in the purfling is maple, the black is fiber, like a thick paper. The trick with purfling and binding is to decide what pattern you want to use, then route the binding and purfling groove to match. Practice helps, too. I route the binding groove first, then go back and route the purfling groove. I glue all three at the same time, working a few inches at a time. Nope, didn't pre-bend them at all. They're thin so they bend easy enough. Thanks for the helpful and timely info Dan. I'm not real good with design, but I am really liking my 1868 brass/black/white/black/white binding sequence. I'm considering whether I should just measure the area where the existing binding channel is the widest and re-cut the whole binding channel to match, but I'm afraid at some edges I might compromise, sound board/bowl integrity. Have an urgent repair that popped in the other day, and I'm waiting for some stuff to move forward with the 1868, so I'll need to think things through very carefully from here. In retrospect, I think I should have done my ebonizing of the sound board on my 1868 AFTER installing the binding. That would have made scraping and sanding the binding level to the sound board much easier. I have a nice sheet metal cutter that I tested on the brass binding and it cuts really straight but leaves a slight jagged edge. Hoping that installing it "cut-side-down" with some epoxy will keep it in place. I found a nice Japanese epoxy that furniture makers use when adhering wood and metal. Covering the sound board with masking tape and repeating the sanding and masking process all around the binding as I sand the brass and scrape the binding should keep things relatively in order. Process sequence flaws really make the work much less efficient and harder! Oh well, live and learn. Of course, "process flaws" are something that do not exist in your projects, and I learn so much from every one of them. The binding on your 1612 is really nice. The simple aesthetics of the Balladeer really lend to a wonderful classic look. She's gonna be magnificent! Looking forward to following this to completion! | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | You're welcome. Yes, you might want to consider making the binding groove as wide as the widest point, then selecting the purfling to match. That is, as long as you won't grind a hole in the top. WRT the top finish, yep, you live and you learn. For example, I used to apply shellac, at first, then polyurethane, to the top before gluing it down to the bowl. But, I found it made the finish uneven when I scraped down the binding/purfling. I did this to keep the glue from discoloring the wood. When I found the glue doesn't discolor the torrefied top, I stopped pre-finishing the top and now I glue the bare wood top. Oh, yes. Process flaws do exist in my projects. I just don't post the pics. LOL! Actually, I learned from building model airplanes to think through the entire assembly process so that I thoroughly understood it before starting the build. Another thing I do when I'm about to attempt a new technique is I'll do one or two test pieces to see what works and what doesn't. That way, by the time I do it on the guitar, I know I'll have a reasonably good chance of success. Yeah, I put the first coat of clear on the guitar today. It's a really nice looking top. Lots of silking. Won't be too long. Edited by DanSavage 2017-05-16 11:46 PM | ||
DanSavage |
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Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Pueblo West, CO | I got the first couple of coats of clear on the top. | ||
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