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Location: SF Bay Area, CA | I have read on a couple of Ovation dealer web sights that the production of some of the currently USA made "higher end" Ovation guitar models may be moving over to Asia this next year. Anyone else know anything about this? |
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Location: NJ | all Adamas are now currently custom shop
all wood tops are currently custom shop.
what do you consider higher end?
some of the garbage people put on their sites is to sell the guitars they have in stock |
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA | I read on two different Ovation dealer web sites that the Legends and Elites were going to be made in Asia maybe starting next year. So I called and talked to the oowner of one of them. He said that since Fender purchased them a few years back that the production of some of the previously USA models like Balladeers have started being move to Asia. He said eventually the USA plant will only make the Adamas. I see you are an Adamas / Ovation dealer. You haven't heard any rumors about this? I'm very curious about this and didn't see any discussion of it on the main boards. |
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Location: NJ | I don't deal in rumor only fact.
what I stated above was fact. |
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA | I searched more on the "General Posting" and did find discusion here from much earlier this year, I think it was in March, posting about several models of previously USA produced Ovations already being made in Asia. alpep, you are probably aware of this. Which Ovation models are currently being made in Asia? Just the facts please. |
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA | You can see from what I currently own that only one of my guitars was made in the USA. Three in Asiia and one in Canada. I've worked in manufacturing for many years and have seen many companies move their production to Mexico and Asia. That is where their quality control departments and policies can make or break a company. |
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Location: NJ | re read my first post
I already answered your question |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Balladeer and Elite production has already been moved to Asia. That is fact.
It appears (from Al's statement, and he should know) that all remaining USA builds will be by custom order only. |
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA | Alpep, Your first post says "all wood tops are curently custom shop", you don't say USA made. The Ovation web site says the Standard Balladeer model 2771AX and 2778AX both have AA grade solid spruce tops and the EliteTX models 2058TX and 1868TX have solid spruce tops. Several of the regular members say the AX and TX indicate Asian made. I'm just trying to understand more spacifically which models are already being produuced in Asia. Ovation won't tell me. Some Ovation dealers say they are and some want to keep us guessing. Is it because it is good for buisness, bad for buisness, a big secret. It's come up several times between August of 2009 and now on this forum. As a dealer who only deals in facts, are you really saying all wood topped Ovation guitars are stll only being mad in the USA, including the models I mentioned? |
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA | Thank you Gallerinski. I've read many of your posts and I appreciate your clearity of fact and the honest opinions you give. There are always obscure ways of saying things to keep from answering a specific question if you have a hidden agenda. I also understand the points that have been made in the past about the sound of the instrument being more important then where it was made. I played some Ovations back in the late 70's that I liked. When I started getting back into playing several months ago I picked up a new Celebrity to practice on besides my Tak. I knew it was made in Asia and didn't really care. It's a black CC24, looked nice and had an on board tuner. After several months of playing everyday I decided to reward myself with the 2079LX. When I reserched it, that is when I first heard Fender had bought Kaman and began moving some production to Asia. I understand buisness decisions that are made are not always appreciated or understood. After 10 years working at a plant, it was moved to Mexico and I had to start over. I hope the quality standards are watched very closely during these transitions. |
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Location: NJ | ALL USA MADE ADAMAS AND OVATION GUITARS ARE CURRENTLY CUSTOM ORDER ONLY
Is that clear enough for you? |
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA | Alpep. I never asked "Are all USA made Ovation guitars made in the Custom Shop"? But you really cleared that one up for everyone. Now here's a fact we can both agree on. All USA made Ovations are made in the USA and all Asian made Ovations are made in Asia. We'll keep where the non-custom order Ovation guitars are made a secret. None of the new members will ever figure it out and shouldn't ask such sensitive questions. I think it's very clear now. Thank you. |
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Location: NJ | some people just don't get it |
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Location: Scotland | WaltCl, it's perfectly possible that Fender might, in the not too distant future, make some models outside of the USA that have the same model names as current "high-end" USA production, just as they have with the entry and mid-level guitars. They'll look to the casual observer exacly like a USA guitar, except they wont be. As Al tried to tell you, before you completely missed the point and got pissy, right now if you want a new USA-built "high-end" Ovation, other than what's currently in stores, it will need to be Custom-ordered. Dealers won't tell you what is happening because they don't know yet. Al is one of the few who do.
Further to Dave's points in other posts.....Country of manufacture is not neccesarily an indication of quality, whether good, bad or mediocre. The motivation to produce a great product is what matters, where in the world that occurs is pretty much irrelevant. I would suggest Bose as a perfect example. The Bose L1 sound systems are made in China, yet they are superb, and far from inexpensive. Asian factories are perfectly capable of producing just about anything to the same standards as the West, but only if they are allowed to do so by the guys calling the shots, controlling the budgets and deciding how much the end-user is going to pay, or will be prepared to pay. In most cases, when production of USA guitars is moved offshore it is to maximise profit, and the result is usually an inferior product. Not necessarily inferior per-se, just inferior when compared to the original domestic product. Usually it's not a case of "lets make this exact USA guitar in China" it's "let's make a guitar that looks nearly identical to this USA guitar, but we need to it sell for a quarter of the price with a much higher profit margin" That's when it all turns to poop. |
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Location: closely held secret | Oops, Temp beat me to it. All that typing for nothing... bloody hell... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Walt, if it sez AX or TX it is made in Asia.
If you are looking at a relatively new Ovation and it does not say USA on the headstock, it was made in Asia.
In the future, all the USA Ovations we know and Love will only be made in the USA by Custom Order.
All the rest will be made in Asia.
I have a REALLY Nice Celebrity right next to me, but it was made in Asia.
In the past, people who had only played Celebrity's thought all Ovations were imports.
In the future they will be correct.
Unless you plan on crossing that $2K line, all new Ovations will be made in anotherland.
Yes, my computer and TV were all made in Asia.
As were most of my underwear and sox.
You can get some good stuff from Asia, I have had a few Indonesian guitars that are/were Great.
But your money won't be feeding any USA workers, only fattening the wallets of the people who export our jobs.
But all of my Asian-made electronics work just fine. The sox ain't that great. |
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Location: Scotland | Yeah, well, Global economics are very complex. And boring as hell.
There is saying that goes "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is" Anyone buying musical instruments should remember that. If 2 new guitars look pretty much the same but one is 3 or 5 or 10 times the price of the other, apply the above when considering the cheaper one. You get what you pay for. There comes a point when the law of diminishing returns applies, but with musical instruments cheap usually means nasty. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
but with musical instruments cheap usually means nasty. :D
Unfortunately, I think that Charlie Kaman's original vision was to make an excellent quality affordable guitar.
But some people believe that low price meant low quality, and they are usually correct.
But that was not the case with Ovation guitars.
That is why people still seek guitars that originally cost $300.
Of course Charlie had a Aerospace business, so his primary motivation in creating Ovation wasn't profit.
Fender's primary motivation in buying Kaman Music is profit.
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PS-- When new USA Ovations cost $300, automobiles cost $2000 and our 3 story house cost $20K... :eek:
And I just bought a brand-spankin-new-in-the-box CC54i iDea guitar for $208.
So that Asia-manufacture do keep things affordable. :D |
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Location: SoCal | We have our headquarters in an historic red brick factory on the banks of the Farmington River in New Hartford, Connecticut. Here, our skilled luthiers and designers make beautiful, high-performance roundback guitars with painstaking attention to detail-the way they have for more than almost half a century. The spirit of New England craftsmanship and restless American innovation is embodied in every Ovation instrument we build. Walt, Considering the lack of USA Adamas/Ovation Production, I find this excerpt from the Manufacturer's website a bit misleading. |
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Location: SoCal | And I just bought a brand-spankin-new-in-the-box CC54i iDea guitar for $208.
So that Asia-manufacture do keep things affordable. :D If this is an indication of the future of Adamas and Ovation guitars...
I'd sell every non-US Ovation I had and buy as many 1581-5 30th-Anniversary Adamas guitars from Al that I could afford...
and never look back! |
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| Charlie had a Aerospace business, so his primary motivation in creating Ovation wasn't profit. (in my best Amy Poehler/Seth Meyers voice)
Really? You're a close personal friend of Charlie's, and were there when he described his motivations for founding (another) company? Really?
From everything I've read, he founded Kaman Music in order to not lose his shirt after losing a Defense Department contract. That, and to keep his employees, especially the great institutional intellect and experience accumulated during the rise of Kaman Aerospace.
Most people have to work to acquire the things they want. Some are fortunate to have the intelligence and drive to not only succeed in a chosen career, but also to create businesses that, in addition to providing the opportunity for others to achieve their needs and desires through employment, also provide the creator of that business well-deserved profit from his/her hard work. Charlie was a brilliant engineer and an accomplished musician, certainly. But to say that the founder of an aerospace company, and then the executive of the largest musical instrument and accessories manufacturer and distributor in the world wasn't interested in profit is patently absurd. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by noah:
And I just bought a brand-spankin-new-in-the-box CC54i iDea guitar for $208.
So that Asia-manufacture do keep things affordable. :D If this is an indication of the future of Adamas and Ovation guitars...
I'd sell every non-US Ovation I had and buy as many 1581-5 30th-Anniversary Adamas guitars from Al that I could afford...
and never look back!
It was just cheaper to buy it with a guitar attached. :cool:
Now THAT is Asian-manufacturing keeping things affordable!
When it is cheaper to buy the whole guitar than just the module.
Plus I have only got two Celebrity's and I don't think that they would add-up to an Adamas. |
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Location: SoCal | "...and I don't think that they would add-up to an Adamas"
Then sell some of your US ones too... Al's 1581's are the best deal you will ever see on a new Adamas. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by noah:
We have our headquarters in an historic red brick factory on the banks of the Farmington River in New Hartford, Connecticut. Here, our skilled luthiers and designers make beautiful, high-performance roundback guitars with painstaking attention to detail-the way they have for more than almost half a century. The spirit of New England craftsmanship and restless American innovation is embodied in every Ovation instrument we build. Walt, Considering the lack of USA Adamas/Ovation Production, I find this excerpt from the Manufacturer's website a bit misleading.
They still make excellent guitars in CT, and I haven't heard that the Asian Balladeers and Elites are lacking any of the quality they had when they were made here.
Maybe you should read that statement again. |
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Location: NJ | if it says LX made in USA
tx or ax made overseas along with celebrity and applause
If they take the LX designation to the imports then all this is moot but I have no indication of that happening at the current time.
bottom line. you can get anything you want within reason from the Ovation/Adamas custom order process. IT will not be a bargain like you can see on the market now. |
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More Ovation models to be made in Asia?
