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Location: south east Michigan | Nothing wrong with a little wishful speculation.
Just as long as we don't let our hopes get to high.
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What you you like to see in the first model lineup?
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I can't image there'd be more that 3 or 4 models to choose from.
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Wouldn't be surprised if all models were the newer contour bowl. I'd be fine with that.
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Can't expect what we've had. These will be true Custom Shop guitars. Therefore the prices will be up there. To justify the custom shop prices there will be have to be some level of tasteful bling.
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Hope they stay far, far away from that last headstock they showed. Might be a nice guitar but they belong in the odd, collectible category. If they want to relaunch the brand it needs to be... THE BRAND.
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A koa blowhole model would be nice.
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Don't break a string when I suggest a low cost Adamas. The UTE was an attempt at a low cost Adamas and it's become a legendary guitar. Restrained bling... No carved bridges or necks... white binding.... probably shouldn't be a 12 fretter.
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yes? no?
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Location: Canada | They should learn from Gibson and Martin and go back to the roots, make modernized versions AND authentic reproductions of the models that built their reputation and made them great in the 70s: original Adamas, Balladeer, Custom Legend ... |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I think the Elite T was the best bang for the buck. I'd love to see them come back in all three depth bowls. I know if they made one with the contour bowl it would be a Sweet T, but they could omit the koa. Maybe do the normal multi-piece epi or none at all. And if they do the black, it would be cool if the neck were black too. A real "Harley" type guitar.
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | merlin666 - 2015-04-02 10:18 AM
They should learn from Gibson and Martin and go back to the roots, make modernized versions AND authentic reproductions of the models that built their reputation and made them great in the 70s: original Adamas, Balladeer, Custom Legend ...
This is what I am hoping for. The stuff that made every band/great singers in the 70's play Ovations, and then of course a new something put in for fun, and a Custom Shop! Someday, I want to get my Dream O!! Although, I have several now that come awfully darned close to Perfect for me!  |
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Location: SoCal | Thought they did what d'ovation suggested...1687 Adamas I reissue, 2004 Custom Legend, Balladeer, etc.
Heck, I believe Al still has a couple of the very limited run of the Koa 'blow hole" AS A SLOTHEAD. Very, very nice guitar.
Other than an all graphite guitar that you could probably play (unplugged) in a shower, they have used the Collector series to have different tops, bowls, finishes, etc., for the 'traditional' crowd and even non-traditional finishes that a rock band might use.
Really doubt if they would come out with a reissue of the pre-production Adamas I slothead. 47RI was as close as they could have done but I doubt if the cost to make versus price sold was appropriate. Textured top UTE slothead came out at about $1,700 retail, following year they came out with a similar CVT that was almost twice the cost of the UTE.
David previously referred to ROI (return on investment) in a post...actual cost of production of a guitar will be very important in development of a production guitar.
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Location: Canada | Tony Calman - 2015-04-02 11:26 AM Thought they did what d'ovation suggested...1687 Adamas I reissue, 2004 Custom Legend, Balladeer, etc. And were these not sought after? It was probably the limited production runs that contributed to high prices of these re-issues. If they were produced on a continuing run they sure would be more affordable I assume. I have been looking for one of these re-issues for several months and as there was not much offered on this site or elsewhere ended up with a Guild Orpheum (which I actually really like). |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I agree that they should go back to 4 or 5 of the traditional models, but probably all of the "Custom" variety, like Custom Legend, Custom Balladeer, Custom Elite, and Adamas, consistent with the Made in USA label as representing the high end of the brand. I'd like to see whether the contour bowl was successful economically before deciding whether that should be the main bowl. I understand the concept of matching the backs of the guitars to the fronts of the burgeoning American population, but I don't know how well it was accepted by the public, or whether it was considered to be some sort of acknowledgement that the original bowl wasn't such a great idea. I think the SSB was a compromise in that direction that led to the perception that Ovations don't sound good unplugged. No matter what they do, they have to get the guitars in the hands of the performers. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | There were numerous "back to our roots" attempts ... the VL (vintage Lyracord) model, the shiny bowl reissues, the Pacemaker and Glen Campbell Artist reissues, the John Lennon, the Adamas reissues, the Traditional series, etc. Somehow these just never struck a chord with many folks outside of this forum.
When Gibson and Martin say "back to our roots" they are talking about vintage wooden hand made guitars. But Ovation's "roots" were cutting edge technology and space-age materials. So OK everybody we're going BACK to cutting edge technology and space-age materials .... ooooh ho hum been there, done that.
As wacky as this might sound, I don't think Ovation has enough History to build a Future based on History. 'Zat make sense?
Edited by Standingovation 2015-04-02 1:05 PM
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Location: south east Michigan | In a world where guitars have a round back, that makes all kinds of sense!
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Innovation is a good way to build a brand but eventually you're gonna innovate to the point of diminished returns.
Maybe... guitars are about as good as they are ever going to be.
Kinda like bacon & eggs and Kelloggs Corn Flakes.
Edited by Slipkid 2015-04-02 1:20 PM
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | After a couple of decades of knocking the kinks out of the process, is it possible to make an all-carbon-fiber "Q" at a competitive price point with other CF brands? It's one of the few Ovations I've always hoped to get a hold of somehow, but never even sniffed an opportunity. But as they say....There's always hope. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I'd have to ask someone who was there but I'd have to think there is a good reason the "Q" never made production.
And don't bring up Rainsong as an example of someone who made it happen. Never played one I liked.
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Yeah... Maybe you can abuse the snot out of a Rainsong or CA.... but there's a big compromise / trade-off in the sound. (IMHO)
Edited by Slipkid 2015-04-02 1:41 PM
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Location: Sydney, Australia | I think it could be done. Small volume of a set number of models, with Custom Shop available for those with the money and the patience. Maybe label everything as an Adamas, to distinguish them from a "Custom Legend" which is made in Asia.
Focus on fibre glass bowls, newest technology and high quality. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Some will cry sacrilege but I'd be okay with the Adamas name on all the highest end / USA models.
Edited by Slipkid 2015-04-02 1:50 PM
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Location: Texas | Wouldn't labeling everything as Adamas, detract or diminish from the originals? Transitioning the name to everything certain sounds like a pure bred to mixed breed move. Don't get me wrong...the top of the line O's were top notch, but there certainly was a line of demarcation between the two brands. Not crying, just askin. Oh...and are Asian made O's still being produced????
Edited by jay 2015-04-02 2:11 PM
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Location: south east Michigan | Maybe it's not the best option but the Ovation name has been watered down too much with all the imports.
They need a fresh start.
Edited by Slipkid 2015-04-02 2:26 PM
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I had the same thoughts that Dave shared. OK, maybe just similar thoughts from a non-marketing person. Seems like most every industry has to come up with the "best new" something sales gimmick every year, but some guitar manufacturers don't. I suppose if the reputation is for quality, there will be new buyers that want to buy that quality product. On the other hand, I've been totally unimpressed with some of the cheap guitars that Martin has produced and the retro guitars that other manufacturers have made. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Whenever we talk about "retro" and "getting back to our roots" I think of the 40th Anniversary Series.
I am the PROUD owner of a K1111 reissue... But it seems that you couldn't give them away.
Everybody sez that they want a Old-style Ovation until it comes time to Pay for one.
I agree that a re-issue of the Elite T would be good.
But if the don't have bolt-on necks that can be reset it would be the same as the Asian crap.
Remember, what most of us really want is the MotherShip back.
We want the Best Service Center in the World... and we want it NOW! 
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2015-04-02 2:48 PM
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Location: Jet City | The marketing guys need to stick with the plugged in aspect, and take it to the next level. touting them as the best stage acoustic, HANDS DOWN (and that's not spew), and get real people that are still relevant in the industry playing and endorsing them. They'll have to do a grass-roots campaign, not unlike they did when they first started. What they need is someone with the passion Charlie/Bill, and the folks in those old factory pics had behind all of these efforts, and things that special are hard to repeat (just ask any Seahawks fan). It can totally be done, it'll be a lot of hard work and dedication and most of all passion. Does anyone here think DW will have this? For all we know, the CEO is a closet round back fan, so maybe so. And Dave... Did they REALLY do a reissue Pacemaker? Ewww. I've finally gotten past the urges to buy one to give it just one more chance. I think I've had 4 now.
Edited by Damon67 2015-04-02 3:13 PM
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Location: SoCal | Adamas should not be on an Ovation and likewise the Ovation should not be on an Adamas. As to Adamas, there are three different guitars (textured top, SMT, and CVT). Yet major difference between the three. Frankly, as I know some others who would agree, I don't believe anything but a textured top should have an Adamas logo. Early on I had SMT and CVT guitars but except for the Millennium, all were sold. The off-shore Celebs should never have had Ovation on the headstock.
What is important is to remember that there are what I describe as specific markets (both for customers and dealers) as to price. Retail prices from at least $200-600, $600-1,200, $1,200-1,800, and over $1,800.
Why do you think the Celeb is often in a guitar store even if the acoustic sound isn't close to a US Ovation (look good, decent neck, pre-amp, affordable). Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Fender, Takamine, and even Ovation recognized this years ago...off-shore, use of laminate, gig bag instead of a quality case, etc. Have you ever seen a father and son discussing the purchase at a guitar store (big box or mom & pop)? Usually a $200-300 purchase which is affordable and good for the store (additional purchases of strings, guitar books, strap, lessons, etc.)
Guitar stores stock these low cost guitars because they have good turnover of inventory while higher priced US Ovations collect dust. It is said that a low cost guitar (i.e., Celeb) will result in a future Ovation sale but probably not as they will assume that the main-line US Ovation will also be poor as an acoustic. It is a truism that sales will not be made if the potential buyer can't see and play the guitar first and dealers don't want guitars that they feel can't be sold in a timely basis.
Are you in the $1,800 or higher market? Some of us are but many of us are still trying to pay the mortgage or help with tuition costs. I have always believed that the majority of the higher market sales come from OFC'ers.
Al had twelve limited edition 2006LX-FKOA slotheads with the VIP pre-amp made back in 2006-2007; this last September, I recently got one of the twelve from him (and, I understand that he still has a couple). Even Al has difficulty holding onto new old stock (NOS) like this.
The Ovationguitars.com website (probably not updated but using new logo) lists the Adamas I (1687) as $5,499 MSRP, $5,599 for the 1688). Probable retail of about $4,000 or higher). A single custom guitar projected (if DW info is correct and a production line can be started) cost would be higher than a production model. Again, doubt if a guitar store will take the risk. With the cyclical nature of the market and debt ridden condition of major box stores, surprised that investors would take the risk.
As to performing artists, many used high end Ovation and Adamas years ago, some may still be using it on the tour bus but few (if any) are playing it at concerts or TV shows. Doubt if Ovation guitars would ever be able to say "hardest working guitar in show business" that Takamine claims.
Although Ovation has a lot of support from us on the OFC, any guitar company that depended on this group would have a balance sheet in the red. Ovation and Adamas, IMHO, would and will not survive unless it was a 'boutique' guitar maker which precludes artist relations, efficiency of scale, as well as mass marketing. Heck, a booth at NAMM would probably eat up their yearly marketing budget. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR |  Ouch!
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Location: Phoenix AZ | damon67 - 2015-04-02 2:04 PM
And Dave... Did they REALLY do a reissue Pacemaker? Ewww. I've finally gotten past the urges to buy one to give it just one more chance. I think I've had 4 now.
Sorry, it was 1618 Glen Campbell version, not 1615 Pacemaker. They made them in 2006. |
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Location: Texas | The Ovationguitars.com website (probably not updated but using new logo) lists the Adamas I (1687) as $5,499 MSRP, $5,599 for the 1688). Probable retail of about $4,000 or higher) Maybe it is just me, but I live on the wrong side of the tracks to even dream about shelling out 3-4K+ for a new guitar. Most USA Ovations were fetching 1,800 up...back when they weren't selling. Dave (and I know we blame it on FMIC's lack of support for the brand), but is there a sustainable market that would support that price range for DW to reintroduce O's & A's into the market? |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | arthurseery - 2015-04-02 3:34 PM
Ouch!
Yep! What OMA said...
Very Thoughtful and Thought Provoking Tony. I hate practical, but realize that you are right.
So do we drop it, and just accept that O & A will never come back, or hope that they can find a small niche to fill with one small, but economically significant market demographic, and that these will be a medium to high end guitar worthy of the O name??? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I suppose we have to acknowledge that the recession, the closing of many brick and mortar stores and a decrease in interest by youngsters can't be blamed on Fender. |
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Location: SoCal | Sure we can blame it on Fender. Give it a try. Feels good..... |
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IF the rumor ever becomes fact.....
