|
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | It does appear that I am not going to have to find an Ovation and case to use for practice repairs and a case for a holder.
I just received the 1976 Patriot that I bought off ebay this week (not the one from Boston that I am waiting until Spring to get, but another I found in good shape for a good price), I had already bid on it, and THEN the guy posts that he took it outside in the Chicago cold to do some recording, and it now had cracks. Ok, I am thinking I can still have an everyday Patriot to play everyday, everyone says that they sound Incredible! So I didn't try to break my contract of my bid.
The guitar just arrived.... NO BOX!!!! A couple of Fragile Stickers on the old brown case, and my Address!!!! I am so mad I could spit (if I knew how)!!! One of the closure buckles is broken, and there was a good gap into the case, and there are cracks through the case. Water from snow is leaking out onto my counter, and I am absolutely afraid to open it. I would never believe in my wildest dreams that a so called Seasoned Guitar Player (I could understand a Goodwill or Pawn Shop) would not pack this Limited Edition in a secure and safe box!!!! He called it his Baby in the ad... 
I took pictures and have put them in my album to see, I am still going to wait several hours before opening it, hoping against hope that somehow, it made it through this ordeal in some semblance of it's former glory. I am so danged mad, I could do bodily damage to that not so smart man (Idiot)(Please understand that I am NOT using such mild language here at home, just being nice on the Forum!)!! UGH!!!!!! 
Edited by naellis58 2015-02-27 3:28 PM
 (OMG Patriot.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 OMG Patriot.jpg (54KB - 4 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | wow
but believe it or not I have heard of guitars being shipped this way before |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I got one like that once... and it survived.
But it wasn't bitter cold and mine was wrapped in bubble wrap.
If it turns-out to be damaged, file a Claim with eBay immediately.
Since the Seller says "No Returns" eBay might refund your money and let you keep it.
Then you can practice your repair skills. 
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 396
| Ebay goes out of its way to protect the BUYER. File a complaint. Lay it out with what's wrong with it versus the description. Be wary if you make a side deal, beyond the contract, with the seller as it can easily nullify your ebay guarantee. Do this immediately. If Ebay doesn't comply, then you also have the credit card company to whom you can file a complaint and request the charge be disallowed. As the buyer with Ebay, you have better resources than the seller if things go haywire. Good Luck! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Denmark | Englishplayer - 2015-02-27 5:58 PM
... File a complaint .... Do this immediately... Good Luck!
+1
I hope it turns out OK. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | I am just devastated....
There was still melted snow coming out of the case, so I thought I had better get that guitar out of the case now. There are about 5 surface cracks, 5 deep divots, every single one of the tuning pegs and machines are loose and wiggle. He did not loosen the strings before shipping, and the face under the bridge pulled up. Opening the crack he put into it by taking it outside while he had it up for sale, and already had a high bidder on it. I can't believe anyone would treat a fine instrument like this....
I am taking your advice, as much as I hate to - I filed my first complaint with eBay, and have requested a return:
"It was shipped without a box! The case is cracked in several places, one lock was broken and there was a gap in the case to the guitar, there was snow in the case. The guitar has MANY more cracks than the one described in the ad, the face is pulling up from the cracks, and every single one of the 6 tuning heads is loose and wiggles. There are 5 deep divots in the face. There is so much damage to this guitar it is a sin! Being a Guitar Player, I would have thought that the Seller KNEW how to properly ship a Limited Edition Guitar properly to prevent damage. I am so very disapointed and upset!"
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Take..... no....... prisoners. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4042
Location: Utah | Ugh, and a relatively rare limited issue guitar. The seller should be kneecapped for taking it out in the cold in the first place, and then for how he shipped it to you. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | I hate to be cynical (well, not really,) but;
Chicago has had an even colder and snowier winter than usual this year. Regardless, what kind of "seasoned guitar player" takes a guitar (which he doesn't even technically own since it's already been sold on E-Bay) outside in the middle of ANY Chicago winter "to do some recording"? (What an amazing coincidence that the cracks just happened to accidentally appear after the auction closed!) Plus, any "seasoned guitar player" and E-Bay seller should know how to properly pack a guitar for shipping. I suspect that the guitar already had problems that he planned from the start to cover-up by blaming his post-auction "sub-zero outside recording session" and/or the shipper.
I'm curious; Did he post clear photos in his E-bay auction that showed the guitar in good shape? If so, are you confident that the photos were recent photos of the actual guitar (and not just copied from somewhere on the internet) What company did he use to ship it? Was it insured? Did you sign for it in that condition? (And if so, why?)
I sure hope you get satisfaction from E-Bay, that seller sounds pretty shady to me.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | standing - 2015-02-27 11:12 PM
I hate to be cynical (well, not really,) but;
I'm curious; Did he post clear photos in his E-bay auction that showed the guitar in good shape?
HERE it is.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Seller is also an idiot, the decal is not as his statement that "It features the Confederate and American flags."
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Tony Calman - 2015-02-28 2:40 AM
Seller is also an idiot, the decal is not as his statement that "It features the Confederate and American flags."
I know, I snorted too, when I read that...
I did not take the $50 deduction he offered for adding the crack, you cannot take any money off the Paypal Total bill, that has to be done separately as a refund from the Seller, so I paid the full amount. He then wrote me and asked if I wanted to upgrade to faster shipping with the $50, I said yes. So I suggested he send it USPS 2 day Priority, fully insured. Which he did, instead of the longer, more expensive UPS he was going to use.
I signed for the Delivery, not the Condition of the Item. I know my PostPerson well, and just love her, she gets so excited for me when I get something Special. The second she pulled the CASE out of her Jeep my heart fell to my feet! I told her that I couldn't believe someone had done that to such a fine, limited edition guitar. She said that she hoped it was okay... She had me sign the slip that the USPS had Delivered the Item, not for the Condition of the item, which if there was a problem had to be handled as a Claim.
I got a response from the Seller through eBay this morning, saying that he was already filing a claim with the USPS, and needed pictures from me. He assured me that he would handle it, and get me a refund. (Heavy Sigh - I wanted the Guitar...). I took pictures the second I got it in the house, so I sent them to him. We will see what happens from here.
I am going to have to take the guitar and case downstairs, it is so full of mold and mildew, it is setting off my asthma, and my entire upstairs stinks now.
I do allot of ebaying, I know it is a risk, but I generally research every buyer, their feedback, past sales pretty well. And in close to 1000 auctions, this is the First time I have ever had a problem... It would have to be on a Patriot!
Thank You all for letting me know what to do, I am not a very aggressive person, and am the type to eat the raw steak instead of sending it back, but Thank You for helping me here, I really appreciate it! And I will stand up for myself for a change! Thank You All!!!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Mold and mildew don't grow during 2-day express shipping either. Something stinks, and it's not just the guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I feel for you on this.
The more we hear the more it stinks.
Just wondering.... would it be pro active of you to stop the credit card payment now?
I'd hate to have him string you along waiting for pictures to be gathered and forms to be processed and responded to.
So many things on the sale are just so wrong. It might be overly optimistic to think that the refund process will be any different.
.
And the whole... "I played it outside in the snow after the sale"... I don't buy that line for a second. ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4042
Location: Utah | naellis58 - 2015-02-28 8:08 AM
It would have to be on a Patriot
When I purchased my Patriot, midwinter, from a member here in South Dakota, I went and hand carried it home on an airplane. Other guitars I have trusted to shipping, but not the Patriot. Now that the factory is closed, many models are now irreplaceable. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Brad Durasa - 2015-02-28 10:32 AM
... Just wondering.... would it be pro active of you to stop the credit card payment now?
I'd hate to have him string you along waiting for pictures to be gathered and forms to be processed and responded to. ...
I paid with A Paypal balance, So I contacted PayPal, but they said that it had to go through the EBAY process because of the Return Request first. I am hoping if eBay stands by me, PayPal will return my money to my account quickly... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | FlySig - 2015-02-28 10:43 AM
naellis58 - 2015-02-28 8:08 AM
It would have to be on a Patriot
When I purchased my Patriot, midwinter, from a member here in South Dakota, I went and hand carried it home on an airplane. Other guitars I have trusted to shipping, but not the Patriot. Now that the factory is closed, many models are now irreplaceable.
I agree, it is imperative now to get, and take care of these pieces! I am very Thankful that I do have my other one coming in from Boston this Spring (if they ever get Spring either...). I had a set of the Humidipaks sent to him, like you suggested, and he put them in the guitar so that it will be ready for shipping, and we are going to ship 2 Day am like you suggested.
The one I just got may have been badly cared for, and abuse in shipping, but they sure are Pretty!!!! I can't wait to play one!!!
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Okay... Do not let this anus talk you out of filing an eBay claim.
File NOW if you have not already done so.
His USPS claim has NOTHING to do with you.
You received a guitar that is Significantly Not As Described.
I read you saying that he is gonna "get you a refund"...
That is not how it works. He is supposed to GIVE you a refund.
Immediately, give you back the money you paid. All of it.
He does not accept returns, so you should not send the guitar back.
File a Claim. If eBay decides that you should return the guitar, eBay will send you a Label.
There is a myth that eBay will let you keep the item, That has never happened to me.
But eBay has sent me Shipping labels to return Two guitars.
File a Claim with the eBay Resolution center. NOW.
His USPS claim is not for you. That is for him.
He probably insured the guitar for more than you paid so he could make money from a guitar that he broke.
And USPS is NOT gonna honor his claim... The guitar was not properly packaged.
So, If you have not filed an eBay Claim... File it Now. (I cannot say this often enough)
This guy is a scam artist.
Also... I am so sorry about you getting you hopes up.
And I am sorry to hear that someone destroyed a perfectly good Patriot.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | naellis58 - 2015-02-28 11:28 AM
I paid with A Paypal balance, So I contacted PayPal, but they said that it had to go through the EBAY process because of the Return Request first. I am hoping if eBay stands by me, PayPal will return my money to my account quickly...
Don't let this guy cut you off at the pass...
You need to file an Not As Described claim.
If he wants his guitar back, he needs to pay for that.
This guy is running a scam on you.
And yes, all claims go through eBay now.
You can only file a PayPal claim if you used PayPal at a real store somewhere.
eBay has all their legal affairs wrapped together and run though Utah courts (really).
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4042
Location: Utah | I agree with Arthur, this looks like a scam. Cover your bases and don't try to be nice about it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Nancy, stick it to this maggot. Follow Arthur's advice. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Ok, I had no idea that the USPS claim was not connected with the eBay claim, but that does make perfect sense once you said that! HE is claiming against the Post Office, I am claiming against HIM with eBay! Ok, got it now!!
I did indeed file the Claim with eBay late yesterday afternoon after I had taken the guitar out of the case, and saw the damage there, and you all told me to file immediately. I would have kept it with all the cracks because it is so Beautiful, BUT the neck is as bouncy as my dirt road in the summer, AND the ALL of the machines and pegs are loose and wiggling! I can't fix that. I don't even know if they would hold putting new strings on it.
And then to top it off, all that mold and mildew - I had to put it back in it's case and take it downstairs to the Family Room. You can see the mold and mildew inside of it - this guy needs his butt kicked! I am actually hoping that eBay sends me a label to ship it out - I can't keep that in my house, even to hang on my wall. And every time I look at it, I would just be sad. Perhaps if they do let me keep it, I can send to one of our Bottom Feeders as a Project, and if they could fix it and sell it, the money could go to the OFC? (I promise to ship it in a Box!!!  )
He requested pictures of the Guitar - I had already sent him the picture of the case - so I took a bunch (you know how hard it is to get cracks to show up in pictures?), and sent them. Now he has requested that I send the pictures to whoever is fixing my other Ovation, and ask for an Estimate to fix the Patriot - I think that is going too far... I do not want to bother John B about a guitar that cannot be easily fixed, and I certainly do not want to put him in the middle of a scam! I am going to give him Ovations email address, and he can do that himself!
Ebay sent me an acknowledgement of their receiving the Claim, and saying that they would step in if it was not resolved by March 4th. Is this normal?? They have all the messages through ebay that have been going back and forth between us, and I sent the pictures via the ebay message system, so eBay would have access to the pictures and messages.
Is there anything else I should do? Thank You ALL for helping me on this - I am working up a good mad, so I am ready to hold my ground now. God Bless you all for your help! I appreciate you All SO Much!!!
Edited by naellis58 2015-02-28 4:37 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Always communicate through eBay.
Yes, that is normal about eBay wanting you to wait and try to work it out with the Seller.
(eBay is hoping that it won't cost Them any money...)
Just send the seller an eBay message telling him that you want a FULL Refund, NOW!
If he sez "No" you can immediately escalate your claim to the Resolution Center.
Do not be afraid to Call eBay by phone.
Some things are easier said in a voice-to-voice conversation.
DO NOT make any side agreements with this lizard.
DO NOT communicate outside of eBay.
No, you aren't gonna arrange for repairs... that is not your job.
Just tell him that you want ALL of your money, and if he wants it back he must pay return shipping.
The FULL price, in a correct 50x20x8 inch box with padding... about 25 pounds.
Like others have said, Don't try to be Nice to this Maggot.
Take an adversarial stance, this guy is Not your Friend.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Thank You Arthur!!!! 
I will do exactly what you told me to do! Thank you for your guidance!!!
I will keep you posted!
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 402
Location: New Hartford CT | Look at my avatar - I am deeply offended! man I can't believe....never mind. The guys are right, naellis - take no prisoners. Keep your communications brief and to the point. Stay calm...I'll flip out for you.
This is one of the top guitars Ovation ever produced, definitely a top 10. I saw the ad and the confederate flag reference on ebay a while back...it made me wary. |
|
| |
Can I Vent????
