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January 2006
Posts: 1478
Location: Michigan | i was just looking at the rate of new posts and the reply's to them and it seems to me that we are moving more to becoming just a factual dictionary website of ovation guitars for people to drop in and get some fast info on them , which is fine , but
i look at the posts for the last 3 months and see that there are only 128 new ones .
i also see that the highest reply in the 3 months is 78.
there are only 20 red guitar neck posts out of 128.
the zero to under 10 reply's for posts are growing every week.
it seems that the o.f.c. team is getting weaker by the month not stronger.
when this site was rocking and rolling we were having o.f.c. functions all over the u.s.a. with members meeting each other and now none of that is hardly being done , because we don't relate to each other on this site like we used to , messing with each other and figuring out each others personalities and looking forward to meeting them in person.
i know that the site is having a huge amounts of new hits but it seems that allot of the older members post on a very limited basis anymore and i wonder if it because we have become to much of an informational site only.
i'm not throwing stones at anyone or the site just making a personal observation.
i would like to see if we could to loosen it up a little bit and not keep it so ovation factual and throw a few stones around again in this glass house.
just my humble opinion . GWB |
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January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | Have you seen daveKells house lately? It's BYOS. |
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Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | I'd like to give my honest impressions of this forum. I would like to categorically state I am not intending to stoke any flames or slander anyone. When I joined this site I carried to it the level of interaction I had at another forum I had been a member of for about 8 years. It was a sign business owner's forum and I was a respected elder there, being one of the last dinosaurs on the site who could still hand letter a sign instead of type into a vinyl letter producing computer. The owner of the forum had a "general chit chat" subforum that saw the most action and is where the deepest friendships grew out of. He did not threaten people with vacations who strayed far away from the SIGNS reason the forum existed. We were a tight group and easily assimilated the new people without the old member hazing them first. I'm not saying there is/was hazing here, but I have experienced firsthand some incredibly unfriendly exchanges that I will admit were partly my fault for not getting a feel for the culture here before jumping in with both feet first. Of course, had I gotten the feel first I might never have come back. My impression of the host of this sight al is that he was an internet tyrant who would go so far as to bait forum members, new ones in particular, into pissing him off so they could go bye bye. I have come to see that al's motivation was mainly to see that only factual info was presented on this forum, but you don't beat down a person simply for being mistaken about something. And so I have soldiered on and hung around because you are mostly like minded in revering a guitar I have loved since I was 9 years old.
I'd like to ad my impressions of the host were confirmed by the many PM's I got from other members who supported my views and encouraged me to stick around. I don't feel true friendships are formed here at the level they are on my other forum. I am disabled completely from chronic pain after 18 major surgeries. On my other forum they raised almost $4,000 that was paypal'd to me after one of them when complications went way south for quite awhile. I have formed exactly three what I consider to be good level online friendships here, mostly with bob, a guy whose ouster I loudly called for shortly after joining this site. He graciously accepted my apology and is my favorite member here. There is still a contingent here I feel routinely try to color my posts into meanings I never intended them to have. Possibly I am too touchy because of what debilitating, intractable pain does to your mind and I am the one who over reacts. I know I do it with my family and it is a real struggle for me. On the other forum they accept that in me and I have an extreme amount of support there.
I can't help but notice a new member I turned onto this forum rarely shows up anymore, that being dwgpreacher. He came to my rescue recently on a thread where my motives for posting were roundly attacked and I feel set the record straight quite well, still there was a profound and glaring lack of any admissions of wrongdoing. Not that I required them, in fact they mostly continued unabated after his defense of me. I don't know if he will come back and he is as accomplished an all around musician as you can be and would have been an excellent asset here.
I don't have much insight into what this forum was like in its glory days or if they even ever existed. The PM's I got from a few well respected people here though indicated to me a growing discontent with the direction things have been taking here in recent times. I gave some thought to buying this forum when I saw Miles offer it for sale once for around $20,000.00. If I had, I would have given it a format along the lines of mandolincafe.com with merchant member subscriptions and the like and had ad space for vendor ads. As it is now, I don't see many vendors being willing to participate at that level. I wonder why a forum such as AGF is thriving while this one has the same threads in place week after week that often end up devolving into sniping at other peoples' posts? I realize this forum is one brand specific but it IS populated by a large number of true afficianados of the brand and I believe it should be thriving at a higher level than it currently is.
Given the demoralizing recent events perpetrated by Fender against our beloved brand I can understand a general decline in the level of enthusiasm exhibited here. It had to have an effect on us as it seemed years of effort almost became for nothing in the end. This forum has obviously had a real sustaining effect on the interest in Ovations and that is an admirable achievement in and of itself. You should feel very proud about that. The question is what direction we evolve towards now? The repository of Ovation knowledge here is staggering and there are at least hundreds of thousands of Ovations out there yet to be resurrected out of closets and out from under beds. Well built guitars that will last many more decades. Finding and bringing them to light and having friendly discussion about them can only be a positive thing (such as I tried with the GCS771LX-C I recently rescued). Instead, I was called a racial profiler in that post and had my other thread about luthier guitars I market for an ailing old man who has been building them for over thirty years referenced again as somehow being out of place here. Funny because I've seen many posts about woodboxes here int he past. I didn't feel they represented any threat to Ovations or this forum but will confine talking about them to the AGF forum from here on out.
My love of Ovations runs deep and will keep me visiting here almost daily for the foreseeable future. I have no answer for the OP as to what this forum will become from here on out but I too have noticed something of a decline in it and that is something that shouldn't be happening. |
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Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 755
Location: Muenster/Germany | I must say that I am glad to have found this site. I love my Ovation guitars, have some technical experiences with them,and sometimes I try to participate with questions or discussions about these Instruments (although I sometimes feel not being taken serious as a real fan because I´m no American..). I am no member of facebook or comparable internet communities, but I visit the OFC daily and besides that I found my best Ovation guitar here, sold by a very,very nice OFC member. The Ovation guitars are so special that a forum like this is absolutely needful, interesting and sometimes even exciting (such as the lately finished incredible restoration of a customlegend). Anyway, I´ll stay in touch;-) |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Yes Dave, the 'glory days' DID happen. They were already in full swing when I stumbled across this place. It was a time when I would've given anything to get to the States and attend one of the get-togethers, especially one of the factory tours. I regularly launched myself wholeheartedly into the many 'frays' that erupted over the years. (I never got a 'holiday' tho'. Not really sure if that's something to be proud of...). Ironically, one of my first 'conflicts' was with the OP, GWB (or is that gwb???) many years ago. But now... I don't really give a sh!t anymore. I keep coming back here through habit, hoping to read another gem, but... A lot of the American friends I've made here I just keep in touch with on Facebook instead. You can say what you want there without fear of reprisal. So, was it the controlling nature of the forum owners that deterred the real 'characters' of the OFC, triggering a decline in site activity, or the rise of alternative social media sites? I don't know. A bit of both maybe. The admin will point to numbers tell you that the site is more active than ever. And that's what they want. I believe that the 'old guard' came here for the personal touch, and in that regard, that side of the site is grinding to a halt. And that's what they want.
Edited by muzzlitebeer 2014-08-27 6:00 AM
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Joined:
September 2012
Posts: 811
Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | I can't comment on the years gone by as I've only been a member here for a year and a half.
But what I can say is that I've benefitted greatly from the advice of many very knowledgeable people about Ovation and Adamas guitars - and strings and many other things.
I've really enjoyed their input and have been enlightened by people such as OMA, Muzza, TAFKAR, DanSavage, Moody et al.
I have a lot to learn, and while these kind people are willing to teach me - then I'll keep coming back.
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January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | The "old guard" OFC is gone, and as Darrell Scott wrote in his song "Long Time Gone"...."and it ain't coming back again".
What has surprised me most about the last few years is that no one is interested in taking their place. It's like the "new guard" can't stand each other. The old guard genuinely liked and cared for each other. Still do. They relish opportunities to get together with each other at various locales around the country. They care about each others wives, and kids. They worry about their health, and help each other out when there is a personal crisis. (I was never a true member of the "old guard", but I know all of what I just said is true).
I don't see anything like that happening with the new guard.
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November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | darkbarguitar - 2014-08-27 6:45 AM
The "old guard" OFC is gone, and as Darrell Scott wrote in his song "Long Time Gone"...."and it ain't coming back again".
What has surprised me most about the last few years is that no one is interested in taking their place. It's like the "new guard" can't stand each other. The old guard genuinely liked and cared for each other. Still do. They relish opportunities to get together with each other at various locales around the country. They care about each others wives, and kids. They worry about their health, and help each other out when there is a personal crisis. (I was never a true member of the "old guard", but I know all of what I just said is true).
I don't see anything like that happening with the new guard.
That it a completely fitting description of the old guard in the sign industry forum I belong to and brought its influences with me to this site. I kind of thought of you as an Old Guard member and was very happy to have cracked the nut that is you (literally and figuratively). Surprised to hear you don't consider yourself a member. I'd be thrilled to help become a replacement but alas, the infamous "mattress posting" is going to define me forever here. On the sign forum it would have been received as it was intended, just a device intended to display my personality so people could know me on more than just an Ovation owner level. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Be the change you want to see. |
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Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | Everything has its time.
And I share DetlefMichel's opinion, that you feel, nowadays, not really as a full patch member with being german. The only people answering my posts or taking them serious are members from the old days, that "know" me from the time when I was posting more frequently. Most of the others read over them.
No problem with this at all, but maybe a reason for us "old" german members to post less. And, as I said, everything has its time. Sometimes it's nice to realize that there is a real world as well.
Best regards,
Kurt |
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August 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | Well said MWoody!! |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Things change over time and you can't live in the past forever ...
This forum is 12 years old and having been here from near the beginning I have witnessed (and been part of) significant changes. Some good some not so good. The most amazing thing of all is that the forum still exists after all that time. The same can not be said of many other fan forums.
We (meaning the founders, Old Guard, and early joiners) are 12 years older. Many of us are in far different places in the arc of our lives than we were 12 years ago ... I know I certainly am and can probably say the same of most of the Old Guard.
The brand that we loved is dead. Get over it, there is no more. The first several years of this forum were an incredible time of discovery. Just to peel back the onion one skin at a time and learn what really was the genesis of Ovation. The information in the older vaults is amazingly rich and there was not a single day that I did not learnm something new. Then we went through a period of sharing that rich knowledge with others as Ovation started to transform themselves and bring out new technologies, new models, reissues, etc. It was like one big buffet table. But then as Ovation started to wither away and die, the source of new material and detail started to dry up. So here we are today and pretty much left with the carcus of a once great brand and talk of the "good old days".
Not to be lost in the shuffle is the advent of social media. Internet forums and email is almost a thing of the past. Life now revolves around texting, twitter and facebook which are a much bigger part of my life than being tied to any specifc fan forum. In retrospect Miles was ahead of the curve many years ago when he propsoed to move this forum to a more social media type format (Ning) and many mambers including myself pushed back on it. Old dog, new tricks.
Best advice I can offer ... just turn it all off and go play your guitars !!!
Edited by Standingovation 2014-08-27 9:00 AM
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Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 205
Location: seattle, wa | I hope it is just ebb and flow. I read this forum every day. the info and stories are great. without the mothership, we will need each other as we and our Ovations age...gracefully |
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Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4226
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Standing Ovation makes several of the points I was going to make. I'm not Old Guard, but I enjoyed their company online. And the truth is that I have changed as much as anyone else over the last 8 years since I joined, and many things have been changed for me. One of those changes came when I realized that I spent an inordinate amount of time online instead of in person. Since that time, I have sought more of a balance. I enjoy my visits here and on other forums, but there are other things I like to do as well. I do not do Twitter, Facebook, or any similar online socializing. I absolutely have come to abhor the 24/7 digital leash that so many seem to embrace so completely, and I actively avoid it whenever I can. More importantly, my kids are now old enough that I can teach them baseball and music. We can go bike riding and on roller coasters. I no longer loaf around the OFC whle they take a nap. In other words, life has its priorities. Even so, I doubt I'll stop sticking my nose in around here any time soon. I also have to admit that the factory closing took a lot of the wind out of my sails. I heard the news on the very day I was thinking about launching a new calendar thread. Since that time, I have had considerable difficulty digging up the requisite motivation. It doesn't help that my schedule over the summer has been stupidly complicated. Regarding get-togethers, I have always regretted not being able to attend the last factory gathering as I was out of town. Many years back, an MIA OFC'er tried to put together a small event in Woodstock that never seemed to get off the ground. I would have been there if it happened. I also had a conversation with Kim Keller several years back about factory tours where he joked that if someone fronted the $5-or-$6 grand, he'd be happy to set one up. As God is my witness, I have no idea how serious he was or not. But I'd have written a check on the spot if I had a more lucrative career than social work. Regardles of the sentimental thinking and inevitable doom and gloom that sprouts in threads like this, overall, this is still my favorite place online. So like it or not, and I am perfectly aware that there are some who don't, I'll be around too. |
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November 2002
Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Social grouping behavior. It's one of the places I go, for a connection, & to maintain perspective. And, it's still entertaining. See ya later. |
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January 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Minneapolis, MN | I dig this place, the people, and the knowledge base.
Cheers,
BillÆ |
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November 2008
Posts: 400
Location: Northwest Arkansas | I check it every day and I have since I became a member.I'll keep coming and looking and I'll post when I have something relevant to say. |
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Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1034
Location: Yokohama, Japan | What is happening to the OFC? Because, I live in Japan, I don't know any of you guys. Whenever I get to go to the States, my schedule is so packed, I'll probably never meet any of you guys or get to go to any of the "gatherings." That's just my reality. I've been a member of this forum for less than 2-years; and so, I don't know all the intricacies of the history of the OFC...glory days &/or gory days, etc...but if you want to know "What is happening to the OFC?" I'll tell you "What is happening to the OFC." The OFC just saved my 1117-4 from the brink of guitar oblivion (read trash-can). Whether the Mother Ship is floatin' or not, I love my Ovations; and I, for one, am extremely glad that so many kind and considerate OFC'ers cared enough to comment and advise to keep my 1117-4 singing. |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | That was then, this is now. I am really glad the "then" happened. The archives of this board hold a tremendous amount of information and data that have historical significance for Ovation that no other place on the web can offer...and it comes from the people that were there. If someone is interested in a guitar...do a little DD using the search and it is my experience that there is a plethora of facts and opinions on any model of Ovation that came out of New Hartford, that can be of great benefit. I am not sure what the expectation is, but this board still helps those in need of parts, opinions on different models, advice on how to fix electronics, a freakin DIY guide to refinishing...etc etc etc In the late 70's, early 80's you could have bought a used 6120 for several hundred bucks...nobody wanted them...today totally different story. Ovation could undergo that same scenario and this board could light up. Who knows. There is still a market for Ovations out there, thusly I would think there is a need for this board. "used to's" are just an old mans' affliction. It is what it is, and regardless of when I came here, personally, I think this is a great board that offers us (those that are here today) a place where we can come and be amongst others that share the same interest. As far as those that came before us...**** em...lol, no I am so glad they came and left alot of knowledge and information about the company that we love, so that we can access that information...which would have been lost, had this board not existed or the "old guard" not participated. |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Those of you who drop by daily to read the news should really take the time to go the "vault" section of the OFC. Then you can read and relive the glory days before things became sanitized......that and all the things Dave (StandingOvation) said.
There are hours, weeks, months of good reading for those who care to dig for gold.
However what was once will never be again. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I can host a gathering
we can go to the homewood suites hang out then go up to what was the factory and hang out in the parking lot, if you wish.
what's the point?
there is nothing to see, nothing to hold, nothing to touch.
it's over.
will it ever come back? I surely hope so but sincerely don't think so.
old guard ?
new guard?
oh please.....
we have been through this so many times over the past 12 years or so it starts to bore me.
yes Miles changed the 'focus" he made it more factual than social.
not sure I totally agree with that but it was not my decision to make.
I noticed miles just bought a catering business so he is probably busy and not responding to stuff as rapidly as usual.
for myself this site is a double edged sword.
I have made many friends some of them lifetime through here.
I have seen many people try and succeed in scamming our membership and I tried to keep that to a minimum even when my name was slung in the mud.
I have been threatened, cursed at, called every name in the book, had my business slandered all over the web and even had to take out a restraining order against one member who lives in the vicinity and threatened me when I was not in the area and I feared for my wife's safety.
so your complaint is what again? the site is not fun? or yup it was tons of fun. so much fun I had to retain a lawyer. so much fun It took me 3 years to get posts against my business off of numerous website.
so Ovation as we know it is over.
yes there are still things to learn still things to talk about still things to post.
but
for some that period of discovery and wonderment was 10 years ago and that is a long time.
it is hard for me to get excited over a post about an import AX when I know that my friends that worked in the factory are unemployed and looking for work in a depressed economy in a field that is shrinking.
yet I answer those posts and am genuinely glad that people enjoy their AX or celebrity guitar and hope that one day they too can find a USA made guitar that fits their budget and know what all the fuss is about.
as for the Adamas .... welll we owners are in a class of our own. we get it. we understand it we love it. there is nothing that can replace an Adamas
I forsee them making Adamas guitars in asia at some point. This will truly be a sad day but it has not yet come.
I don't look back.
I look forward |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Denmark | Exactly what is happening to OFC I don't know. But since coming here for the first time it has changed. And it still is a-changing. Some people come, some people go. In and out of this room where Ovation instruments are the topic. Some people drift away while others slam the door. Some people check in every day while others maybe once a month. Thats how it is on every forum I frequent. I hope that it will never disappear since it is valuable resource to people wanting to learn about these instruments and to people who are willing to share their knowledge or document their projects. Thanks from me to all of you. Keep it rollin' :-) Being on the wrong side of the atlantic ocean I have never attended the OFC joints or meetings but thats my bad luck. If we were enough in europe it could be fun having a old world Ovation get together. I (still) have just one Ovation which is not a true Ovation (it is an Adamas) but I am glad and proud to have it and enjoy playing it. |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Denmark | I can only muster 0,0506651571 posts per day on the average, but as said above I enjoy the reading.
Edited by tpa 2014-08-27 12:15 PM
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | what is happening to the o.f.c. ?
Fender bought and ruined Ovation.
Then the Factory Closed. 
But my Ovations still get compliments on the street, so someone still Loves Ovations.
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12754
Location: Boise, Idaho | I was out of town yesterday, so I'm trying to see what I missed. I still check in almost every day and if I can't, I try to at least glance through the days that I missed. That hasn't changed over the last 8 years.
I probably fit the second generation. The old guard was pretty set when I arrived and knew each other pretty well because they were a small group. Like Dave and Stephen suggested, I tried to read through all of the vaults when I first found the site, but it took a lot of time to do that and keep up with the new stuff. In 2005, Ovation introduced the Ute and several reissues and the 2005 Collector. There was a lot of new products to talk about in addition to old products and plenty of banter. There was always a bias for USA guitars here and we don't have any new ones to talk about anymore. That might account for half of the posts in 2005.
There was also an active connection to the Hamer Fan Club and Takamine Forum, with significant overlap. I agree with OMA that Fender had a lot to do with this forum's decline, but we also had some internal troubles that led to a temporary shutdown of the forum in 2010. Miles tried some changes in order to avoid a return of the problems and participation dwindled. I don't blame Miles for that. Things were getting pretty bad and something had to be done. People left and others, including me, would have left if it continued with all the drive by shootings that were going on.
Lots of changes. Some of them sad to see. Lots to be thankful for, like all the friends I've met or haven't met through this forum. |
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what is happening to the o.f.c. ?
