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Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes... [Frozen]
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Posted 2014-06-22 6:19 AM (#487926) Subject: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: November 2011 Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Let me state first a skimming of the rules revealed nothing to me about this type post being verboten. If however, I am wrong please delete it and don't give me a gold star today.
I traded the last new O I bought to a member here, dwgpreacher for a dread made by a retired college professor in Denver who is 72 years old and has been building over thirty years. dwgpreach gave me contact info for the professor as I had some questions about the guitar. Over the course of a few months we emailed each other back and forth almost every week. I eventually had him build me a replica of the Lawrence Juber signature Martin OM with Adi/flamed maple wood combo, just like the first LJ Martins. It is an awesome and beautiful guitar. I eventually asked him if he would be building anymore dreads and he said probably not. Well, a few months back he came into possession of some ancient Gibson blueprints and told me he was going to build a series of five 12 fret slothead dreads. I immediately reserved the first one and have had it a few months now. I won't bore you with my laundry list of superlatives to describe this guitar but suffice it to say I am incredibly pleased with it.
While emailing him I learned he despised the process of dealing with people to sell his builds which were all totally speculative as he refuses to take custom orders. I told him I spent my lifetime self employed as a signpainter and have no trouble with selling and offered to market his guitars for him. He immediately took me up on it and so far I have sold I have sold 6 or 7 new guitars for him online. A few of the new owners are on a waiting list who requested to be able to buy a second guitar of his whenever it became available. So far everyone has been blown away by the guitar they get at the price I am selling them for. His name is Dr. Jonathan Conant. I have posted extensively about him on the AGF forum, as have a few new owners if you want to research anything about him. He insists he now is building for love of the craft and refuses to profit from it. This makes for some ridiculously cheap luthier built guitars as he ships them to me for his material cost only and lets me put a small markup on them. I have had another luthier here appraise one of his guitars and he said the craftsmanship level under the hood on the top bracing is usually only found on the priciest Martins. That may be why all of his guitars so far have had incredible sustain.
I am mentioning it here since I have two of the soon to be remaining dreads that will be available to sell. If I am not violating any rules here, I'd like to keep the discussions off the board since homage is paid only to O's here. Once I find out if this thread is legal I will post an email addy I use just for this purpose and we can go from there. As a pricing example, I generally sell most of his guitars around the $700 range with buyer paying shipping. You have to agree to a no return policy as I send the money off to him right away and have promised him I will never ask for a refund to keep him out of having to sell these himself. I have, however, demo'd a couple of them on Skype and provide a detailed description of each guitar before sending it off. There has been nothing but voluminous praise for the guitars from new owners so far and I fully believe I could get a few thousand for these but Dr. Conant wants me to keep the price low enough someone can get a luthier built guitar for the price of a mid level import at.
Well, that's it. I'll post my email as soon as this post is either approved or deleted and sell the remaining two on a first come first served basis as I always have. Thanks. Oh, by the way, a few people have said the pics I posted on AGF look like a Martin/Gibson hybrid guitar.
Posted 2014-06-23 11:29 AM (#487971 - in reply to #487960) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: November 2011 Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX
alpep - 2014-06-23 9:12 AM
ehhhhh
send me the money for a guitar you cannot see or even have an input as to what or how it is built and no refunds?
that sounds fishy to me dave
I'd feel the same way. It is an arrangement requirement I have with the luthier who is an eccentric 72 year old retired professor. Out of seven I have sold so far I haven't received anything but positive reviews. As I said, I demo them on Skype for anyone who wants to hear them first. I tried to tell this guy I could get two grand for these guitars but he refuses to profit from them. He said "I build them to build them not to sell them". In fact, he told me if I ever receive one of his guitars and know a fledgling guitarist who can't afford a decent guitar to just give it to him. A guy down in Houston I sold a size 0 to is getting number two of the 12 fretter dreads. He asked me if he could make the trip to Denver to pick it up himself and meet the builder. I asked the guy and he said yes, but he will still have to negotiate the price with me. As for no input on the build, he refuses to take spec requests because it puts too much pressure on him and defeats the purpose of why he builds them. I describe details down to barely visible sanding swirls so everyone knows precisely what they are getting.
And Bob, Duane was long dead by the time I was on an Allman Bros bus. We are speaking strictly of Greg who is definitely no angel.
Posted 2014-06-23 4:25 PM (#487977 - in reply to #487926) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: December 2006 Posts: 6994
Location: Jet City
If you're the distributor/seller, and he's 'allowing' you to mark up to make some money, I would think YOU'RE the one setting the 'no refund' policy as you would be the person I'd ask if I wanted a refund.
I second Al's comment, with an added sounds like "BS" to me. How can you in good conscience offer up an untested and unknown brand with a zero return policy? I myself wouldn't jump at an offer like that from anyone I knew, let alone an internet stranger.
Good luck with your spamming. If it were up to me, I would have deleted this post from the start.
Posted 2014-06-24 5:34 AM (#488001 - in reply to #487977) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: November 2011 Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX
damon67 - 2014-06-23 4:25 PM
If you're the distributor/seller, and he's 'allowing' you to mark up to make some money, I would think YOU'RE the one setting the 'no refund' policy as you would be the person I'd ask if I wanted a refund.
I second Al's comment, with an added sounds like "BS" to me. How can you in good conscience offer up an untested and unknown brand with a zero return policy? I myself wouldn't jump at an offer like that from anyone I knew, let alone an internet stranger.
Good luck with your spamming. If it were up to me, I would have deleted this post from the start.
*click*
I am so sorry you feel this way. I actually don't feel like a stranger on internet forums I frequent. In fact, on one of them many people I've never met raised over a five thousand dollar donation for me after one of my 18 major surgeries that left me disabled for a number of months. AS far as an untested unknown brand, are you even remotely aware of how many luthiers are in the world selling guitars nobody has ever heard of? I happen to have found one with over thirty years of building experience and seven buyers so far have thanked me profusely for sending them one of his instruments. Two of them want another one. My conscience is very clear on the no return policy I did indeed set myself. My finances are extremely limited being on a total disability income. I immediately send the payment for each guitar sold to Dr. Conant the day I receive it as per our agreement to keep him from having to deal with buyers. If you don't like the arrangement I guess you won't be requesting info on the remaining dreads I am selling for a fraction of their value as instruments that in my case will become two family heirlooms I will pass on to my sons. An experienced luthier here already appraised them as having craftsmanship on a par with thirty grand Martins. I'm guessing you missed that part of my first post and only wanted to jump in and agree wholeheartedly with Al and add a bit of venom of your own.
Posted 2014-06-24 6:57 AM (#488004 - in reply to #488003) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: November 2011 Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX
jamesholl - 2014-06-24 6:26 AM
If you already have two to sell and you have two previous customers who want to buy another one why are you advertising here??
They want OM's identical to the Lawrence Juber Martin repro I have. In fact, I am thinking of selling mine to one of them to buy another O I have my eye on. These people each bought one of the series of size 0's Dr. Conant did recently.
Posted 2014-06-24 7:59 AM (#488005 - in reply to #487926) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10582
Location: NJ
In the past we have donated for guitars that were suppose to be ovations and wound up being other brands.
we have provided guitars for members in need that were not in need.
we have bought guitars for over value because a member was in need or ill or a family member was ill.
we supplied instruments for people that claimed they were musicians in need of instruments.
NOT ONE
NOT ONE!!!!!!!!
NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
of these individuals posted past the time they got their instrument.
so forgive me if I am skeptical of someone wanting to collect money for an instrument that someone cannot see hear touch taste with a no refund policy.
In fact we had another guy from texas that stole THOUSANDS of dollars from members and wound up in jail for credit card fraud.
so
without any sort of guarantee warranty picture video etc of the instrument someone is purchasing I would absolutely have to caution people from buying them.
are there hundreds of independent luthiers out there? yes
do we know of all of them? no
do they build nice guitars? sure why not?
have I played guitars from independent luthiers that were great? yes
Have I played bad ones or less than stellar ones? yes
the problem is not every guitar is great even from martin, gibson, trailer, breedlove, goodhall, etc etc etc.
sure you may just be wanting to turn people on to a good deal. but this guy can be relabeling made in china guitars also and no one would really know would they?
I am just a skeptical guy from NJ
when someone tells me it is too good to be true guess what it is probably too good to be true
Posted 2014-06-24 8:20 AM (#488007 - in reply to #487926) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: October 2005 Posts: 5330
Location: Cicero, NY
Not to jump into the fray, Dave, but you have to realize the weight of yarn that's being spun here. Let's take one line for instance - "An experienced luthier here already appraised them as having craftsmanship on a par with thirty grand Martins."
$30 GRAND MARTINS? That's pretty high praise for pretty much ANYone, isn’t it? I don’t see many Collings, Santa Cruz, Olson, Huss & Dalton, Bourgeois, et al guitars in that range unless they’re sporting some REALLY well aged Braz. I'm sure these are very nice guitars but building them up that high and telling everyone "you can see them online but no returns/no refunds" is crazy.
Reverse it for a second - if I told you that I knew a guy who built cars on par with Ferrari's and you could have one for $10k BUT you can't drive it beforehand and no refunds or returns, would you be taking that leap of faith? I think not.
Posted 2014-06-24 9:39 AM (#488010 - in reply to #488007) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: September 2003 Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan
Mr WeaserP - 2014-06-24 9:20 AM
...but you have to realize the weight of yarn that's being spun here.
That's a very descriptive phrase that I hope to remember to use some day.
.
And Wease makes all the valid points as well.
Well Dave... by now you're probably thinking of the old saying.. "no good deed goes unpunished".
I think you're intentions were good.
.
It seems that before you even posted you had a inkling that it might not pass muster.
May I suggest that next time, you first e-mail the post to Miles and Al for their opinion.
Posted 2014-06-24 12:09 PM (#488015 - in reply to #488007) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: January 2009 Posts: 1249
Location: Texas
I drive a Ferrari and I am not going to buy one.
All great points. The problem Dave, is you have no skin in a game with tremendous risk to the buyer and are placing yourself in a position to be questioned because you have tilted the game in the sellers favor (unless the guitar sounds and plays like a 30K martin, whatever that is). You know, maybe folks would scarf them up, if you actually had pictures, a youtube of one being played, and maybe a video of John Knowles stating that IHO it sounded like a 30K Martin. But what most folks fear is that you would have Moody saying it sounded like a 75.00 Silvertone(lol, sorry Paul).
You should expect this type of response when you bait a hook, in the manner in which you did. It is the age of internet shystering and I think everyone, at the least, knows someone that has been burnt by the "too good to be true" addage.
Posted 2014-06-24 12:57 PM (#488017 - in reply to #487926) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: March 2008 Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D.
Not to mention that you are willing to sell yours to finance an O. O's are great as we all know, but if this guy's guitars are so great that the dread sounds like a $30,000 Martin, why would you be selling your OM? Not as good as the dread, huh?
Posted 2014-06-24 1:23 PM (#488018 - in reply to #488017) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: January 2009 Posts: 1249
Location: Texas
And the previous owner of the luthiers guitar, that you now have, traded you for an Ovation... Not to mention that person has yet to endorse this luthiers product as being of the value you have associated with it
Posted 2014-06-24 2:32 PM (#488019 - in reply to #488018) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: November 2011 Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX
amosmoses - 2014-06-24 1:23 PM
And the previous owner of the luthiers guitar, that you now have, traded you for an Ovation... Not to mention that person has yet to endorse this luthiers product as being of the value you have associated with it
That would be dwgpreacher. I have emailed him and asked him to weigh in on this thread having met both the luthier and knowing me for fifteen years. Stay tuned. It's really funny, on the AGF I have yet to get the reaction I am here about these guitars. It seems some of you live to accuse.
Posted 2014-06-24 2:47 PM (#488021 - in reply to #487926) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: September 2006 Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
I have seen no photos of this guitar. And you haven't posted it on YouTube.
And someone traded it to you for an Ovation...
And you are thinking of selling it to buy an Ovation...
Post some pics or a video of your guitar.
Although that guitar might not be representative of the guitar anyone would receive.
I would just like to see this guitar you are raving about.
Posted 2014-06-24 3:14 PM (#488022 - in reply to #487926) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: September 2003 Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan
After the "It seems some of you live to accuse" comment.... I don't think pictures will help.
.
And... I'd bet the last thing members here want is to fall in line with the AFG forum.
Posted 2014-06-24 4:50 PM (#488025 - in reply to #488020) Subject: Re: Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal
Brad Durasa - 2014-06-24 12:45 PM
Dave, Dave, Dave...
Please recall "The Rule of Holes".
It would come in handy right... about.... now.
The Rule of Holes????
And Jay, I deeply resemble that remark about the $75 Silvertone! I'm seriously thinking of trading my OFC slothead for one that a friend of a friend told me about and that it was equal to a $50 Snailor........
Great Price on Luthier Built Woodboxes...
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