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| The general consensus is that off shore versions of guitars are not as good as home grown ones. Mostly, I suspect because the reason they are farmed out the production is because they needed to save money on labor and other costs. This is not to say that there are not some really nice instruments built in other places. My question is more about companies that have their lower tier guitars made elsewhere.
If a company decides the go this rout, I would think that they would give every detail of construction and specs to the folks in that factory and make sure they have the machines and tools to make them just as good as they are made originally.
So, why it is that they don't sound the same or play the same. Is it real or a preconceived notion at work ? There was a recent thread comparing a T and a TX that got me thinking about this. There's other brands and their off shore builds as well that seem to have the same thing about them.
Is it that the goal is not to build them just as good, but to build them good enough and below a given price point ?
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Get a LIFE! |
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| Not a problem. I've already got one.
Thank you SO much for your insightful response. I will cherish it as if I climbed a high mountain to speak to the guru living there, who has devoted his life to enlightenment, and came back with your jewel of thought. And I will get off your front lawn.
I hope tomorrow is a better day ,than this one, for you.
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Location: SoCal | JohnW63 - 2012-10-18 9:36 PM Is it that the goal is not to build them just as good, but to build them good enough and below a given price point ? John, if the product meets requirements, is quality attained? |
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Location: Tennessee | It's a function of what people want to pay and how many they can sell and where they need those lines to intersect. In the end, as evidenced by even your comment on the other thread, the majority of Ovation players want a good playing guitar with higher end features all decked out with the top price point of $1000. This unfortunately precludes a manufacturer of making their guitars in the US. Ergo, you get them done oversea. Ovation has had a production facility in Korea for right about 30 years, so they do get excellent quality (for the money they can spend) in relative terms. Those guitars that are lower on the model lineup need to be made in China to be able to profitably produce at the even lower price point.
Believe it or not, Ovations require more handwork than most of the other competitive US guitars. Contrary to what some might believe, it costs just as much if not more in materials and labor to make Ovation guitars as everyone else. Check out how much the new USA made Ovation guitars (including Adamas) go for on eBay. The most important thing to realize is that this handwork is done by very talented New England luthiers which you cannot duplicate in Korea no matter how well you spec it out. So its totally natural for the quality to be a notch lower. There are also differences in the quality of materials that contribute to this.
The market generally requires at least a $1500 price tag to be able to build guitars the US. Taylor, Martin, Gibson, Breedlove all prove this point. Yes, they all produce their lower end models in non-US factories, and yes, the USA purists bitch about that no differently than this forum. Go play a Mexican made Martin guitar, or a Breedlove, or a low end Taylor and compare it to their US counterparts that are typically $2K or close. There is a difference that you can feel and hear. In many ways, Ovation's Korean made guitars (legends and Elites + Custom) are ahead of the competition in getting closer to the original quality of the US made guitars. The rub here is that the manufacturers here in the US keep raising the bar by continuing to innovate and improve designs, manufacturing, and quality control.
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | JohnW63 - 2012-10-18 11:36 PM
Is it that the goal is not to build them just as good, but to build them good enough and below a given price point ?
In all honesty, considering the COMPARATIVE quality between the Ovation imports and other imports in the same price range, I think the idea is to build the BEST GUITAR POSSIBLE "below a given price range." Because of competitive pricing, there ARE differences in materials as well as craftsmanship from their American counterparts, but the imports are still pretty darn decent instruments! |
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| A long time friend of mine, who has played lots of guitars, is of the mind that with all the CNC stuff and computer controls, the quality out of a decent factory in Asia is actually turning out to be quite good. He referenced the Guild GAD series. He was impressed with my used Walden G2070 which is made in China.
What I didn't know was just how much changes. What parts used change the sound or playability ? I didn't know if they DID use different materials at all over the US counter parts. Of course laminated tops vs solid would make a difference, but there are solid tops coming from Asia as well. Which brought me back to guitars that seem identical in the Ovation line, but one is a T and the other a TX. Even with all the manufacturing specs, a person can tell one from the other.
I know that Ovation USA will repair a Korean built guitar, once it is out of warranty, but during the warranty period, it has to go back to the dealer and then to the channels that it took to GET here in the first place.
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Location: NJ | JohnW63 - 2012-10-19 6:19 PM
I know that Ovation USA will repair a Korean built guitar, once it is out of warranty, but during the warranty period, it has to go back to the dealer and then to the channels that it took to GET here in the first place.
they will?
better inform the guys in the service dept.
now you are really talking out of your arse |
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| AL, I got that DIRECTLY from the horses mouth via e-mail. Would you like me to forward it to you ? Here is the quote:
From askus@ovationguitars.com
We can take in Korean non warranty guitars for repair but any warranty issues need to be returned to the distributor through the music dealer.
Are you saying they don't know what they are talking about ? It doesn't seem to be MY arse the talking is coming out of.
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Location: Michigan | al how come this guy has 2 months experience here and knows allot more about ovation and adamas guitars and the way the factory does business than you do as a dealer and one of the original founders of this site .
i am shocked that we have been misled for the last 11 years .
i am so confused .  GWB |
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Location: SE Michigan | JohnW63 - 2012-10-18 11:36 PM
The general consensus is that off shore versions of guitars are not as good as home grown ones.
...
...
...
So, why it is that they don't sound the same or play the same. Is it real or a preconceived notion at work ? There was a recent thread comparing a T and a TX that got me thinking about this. There's other brands and their off shore builds as well that seem to have the same thing about them.
Is it that the goal is not to build them just as good, but to build them good enough and below a given price point ?
I think that when a company decides to off shore guitar production they have made a decision that low cost is a higher priority than craftsmanship. And this prioritization is manifest in the product. It is possible even likely that with CNC and automation that off shore guitars are every bit as well built, but I suspect that if the goal was to reduce cost the materials may not be as good.
I think it's sad that consumer patriotism is on the wane. I suspect that the younger generation thinks very little about where a product was manufactured. |
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| I asked Ovation a question. They answered as I have quoted. Now, from what Al says, they didn't know what they were talking about. How am I supposed to know when Ovation is "talking out of their arse " ?
edit: ( After reading the post above this, I get the impression that he was thinking I was calling Al into question. That was not my intent. I was referring to the customer service person who sent my e-mail. )
Edited by JohnW63 2012-10-19 9:07 PM
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| Brian,
I suspect that the younger generation thinks very little about where a product was manufactured.
I'd agree. Given the bulk of all the electronic gadgets they have all around them are made in China or at least Asia, it's hard for them to even KNOW that some stuff might actually be made HERE .
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Location: NJ | JohnW63 - 2012-10-19 8:44 PM
AL, I got that DIRECTLY from the horses mouth via e-mail. Would you like me to forward it to you ? Here is the quote:
From askus@ovationguitars.com
We can take in Korean non warranty guitars for repair but any warranty issues need to be returned to the distributor through the music dealer.
Are you saying they don't know what they are talking about ? It doesn't seem to be MY arse the talking is coming out of.
I need to know the name of the person that sent you this because I can tell you point blank as a fact that they do not work on any imports at the factory. period
but WTF do I know you seem to know if all educate us, pontificate to us.
btw are you a doctor?
do you work in philadelphia?
are you of Greek ethnicity?
I am seeing a pattern here |
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| Al,
I asked Ovation this question a few weeks ago, because I was trying to decide between a older , used, US made guitar, and a newer, if not NEW Korean model. I wanted to verify what the steps were, if one needed repair over the other. The quote you see is their e-mail response. It was not signed. No name left. I can forward you the e-mail if you wish. The only info I have is it was sent out by "askus@ovationguitars.com". I have now asked them AGAIN for clarification. So, why are you riding my @ss about this ? Why am I at fault for believing what Ovation told me ? I tried to do research before buying a guitar. I went to the SOURCE and you're acting like I am making things up.
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Location: NJ | just call the service department.
ask for John Budny
ask for Kim Keller
I have known John for almost 20 years
Kim for 30 or longer
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Location: Flahdaw | As a test, I sent an email inquiry to the factory and received this response:
"Yes, we will do repair work on your Indonesian electric curling iron, but the other items you mentioned run against our moral fiber and, quite frankly, we find them appalling and disgusting."
So there you have it Al...you just don't know til you ask. |
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Location: south east Michigan | You Get What You Pay For It's as easy as that. |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJlObJ8OafQ&feature=plcp |
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Location: NH | Brad Durasa - 2012-10-20 9:23 AM
You Get What You Pay For It's as easy as that.
Alot of times this is true. But often when considering this statement, one needs to ask "What is the item needed for?" I swear by the products of a USA tool manufacuturer that sells their products out of the back of a truck. Their products aren't cheap, nor inexpensive. However, a couple of years ago one of those well known mail order companies that manufactures in China opened a store 3 miles from my house. The prices are incomparable and I cringe every time I go in there. But sometimes I just need a tool that I only foresee using once in my life. I can use it and throw it away. Then I could buy ten more of them if needed sometime down the road, and still save money.
Another trite saying is "Perfection is the arch enemy of good enough". I'm guessing the "good enough" guitar market is way larger than the "perfection" market. Don't get me wrong. I like having nice stuff, but sometimes, what you pay for is all that you need. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Okay.... I see your point.
To that I'd slightly revise the old saying.
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"You get what you're willing to pay for." Then I'd add, "Spend according to your needs and expect to get what you paid for.... no more / no less" |
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Location: Flahdaw | It gets even murkier sometimes. "You get what you're willing to pay for." You can pay $1500 for a used Adamas, or $3000 for a new one. Either way you "get" great, one's just half price. |
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Location: south east Michigan | One downside from "used" is that you don't get the factory warranty.
Not that you're likely to need it.
I did not need to exercise that option until I had owned the instrument for over 30 years.
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Edited by Slipkid 2012-10-20 11:12 AM
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Location: NH | I like factory warranties. (Who doesn't?) Unless I get a DEEP discount on used, I usually buy new. I've almost never had to use them, but it gives me some degree of peace of mind. Kinda like insurance. |
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Location: NJ | just a point of clarification johnw63
I am not trying to argue with you or exhibit some sort of superiority
but
I do have a responsibility to keep the information on this site factual |
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Off shore guitars
