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Location: NW Washington State | In their business section: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/business/fender-aims-to-stay-plug... |
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Location: Flahdaw | Wow....
"The company has also been criticized by Wall Street analysts for acquiring the Kaman Music Corporation, a distributor of musical instruments and accessories, in 2008 for $117 million. The company, which it renamed KMC Music, is a low-margin business and has squeezed Fender’s overall profit margins."
Talk about a punch in the face. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Sad but true, I'm afraid - but you can't buy O's if they don't SELL them anywhere...
Edited by rick endres 2012-10-01 10:52 PM
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| Which begs the question, WHY don't they sell them anywhere ? They're in stock in most online stores, just not much in brick and mortar places. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Interesting. Its no wonder that corporations built by owners filled with passion about the product suffer when they're sold to or taken over by new ownership that cares less about the product and more about the bottom line. Beal probably understands this more than any of us. As a fan club, we're in it for the passion, not the bottom line. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I was goofing around in GC on Sunday. There was a US Ovation in the used section with the strings about an inch off the board at the 12th fret....really horrible action. I was noodling around with a Breedlove when a guy comes in the acoustic room. He walks around the whole room looking at the 100 guitars in the place, finally spots the Ovation, pulls it off the wall, sits down and somehow plays with it for about 15 minutes. It made me wonder whether having some quality, playable, high end O's would attract much attention there. It would be fun to do a test with an Adamas, or maybe a 2009C Koa, hanging right in the middle of all those Taylors and Martins....how many people would pull it down and play it, ask about it, plug it in? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | My favorite local guitar store closed a couple of years ago. They never handled Ovations, but had a long relationship with Fender. When Fender bought KMC, they were hopeful that Fender would straighten out what they saw as supply problems. KMC had a great distribution system. I don't know if it ever happened, but they started stocking more Guilds and less Taylors until they couldn't stay open anymore. The economy was a big part of it, but companies like Taylor required them to stock their high end product, but wouldn't show off the lower end models to try to develop brand loyalty with an affordable guitar. I thought Fender would fix that with Ovations by getting a few of the better models out there, but also having a supply of the Celebrities available for people who dreamed of an Adamas, but couldn't afford it. Turns out almost all models have disappeared off the shelf. Our Guitar Center used to have 6 or so Ovations on the wall, mostly lower end. Last time I was in there they had one. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I went to my local GC two weeks ago. No ovations or adamas. Curiously, no Guild's either! It's tough times all around in this economy. I had hoped Fender could use their marketing muscle to disperse ovations, but they can't even sell Guild's (Which by the way are dynamite guitars). I like Fender guitars, but I think they've hit the apex of the guitar food chain (at least in the states). No more growth for those greedy investment bankers ... just a good solid company making electric guitars, keeping people employed, making a diginified product. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | A new Guitar Center opened at Hayden Meadows in North Portland...
So I went there to check it out on a Lazy Sunday.
They had ONE GC24 Celebrity.
(I didn't play it... I was too busy comparing Martins... Do NOT buy a HPL Plywood Martin when the Wood-Top right next to it is also $799. The HPL sounded like Wet Cardboard!)
Downtown at Apple Music Row, in the Acoustic shop, they had one Grey TX and an AX Balladeer...
Chuck told me to tell my friends that he would give them a Deal on the Ovations, and that he was NOT gonna be carrying Ovations any longer.
Mind you, Apple Music had the Roundback Roadshow in Portland. (Not any of the GC's)
Chuck used to have an Adamas on the wall and a coupla Legends and Elites.
The Celebrity's were on the bottom row of the Other wall near the lower end Seagulls.
And he had been selling a bunch of Ovations in '06, '07 and '08.
He had finally discovered that if you have more that one Ovation for buyers to choose from, you sell more.
I used to stop in regularly back then and there used to be an Adamas right in the middle of the main wall with all the other guitars facing it...
And that Adamas would change from month-to-month... Sell one, get another one...
But like he said... He won't be ordering any Ovations from Fender.
But I imagine that they will be selling Asian Ovations on that side of the world.
People in Japan like Ovations... Or maybe they liked USA Ovations 
-edit for spelling-
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2012-10-02 3:53 PM
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Location: Miami | I just don't get it. Everywhere I play, musicians and non-musicians alike see my guitar and will very often say something like "Ooo! Is that an Ovation?" probably because they look so different. I doubt Martin, Taylor, and Gibson players get as many comments simply because they look like standard acoustic guitars (even if they're high end). I can't help thinking that the drop in O sales is due to bad (or lack of) marketing. |
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Location: NJ | the house of card may be ready to fall |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Wait a minute - I don't know how you can blame FENDER for lack of high end Ovations in brick and mortar stores. The stores choose what inventory to invest in, and they do it based on what they think they can sell at a reasonable margin, in a reasonable timeframe. It's called TPD - Turns Per Dollar.
The one to blame is the BUYERS (yes, us). We don't buy at the B&M shores, we window shop and try stuff out. Then we troll for bottom feeder deals on ebay or buy from online store to save a few dollars. Yeah, yeah, I know the arguement - we can't buy what they don't stock. That's BS and you all know it. Any B&M would gladly special order any Ovation you desired. But we have no qualms about buying online from nameless faceless sellers if its in the best interest of our PERSONAL bottom lines.
I'm no different than the rest. This past weekend I went to a local luggage shop to compare new suitcases. I even brought alone my old one to compare features and capacity. Consumed about 20 minutes of a very helpful sales persons time and the shop has exactly the case that I wanted. And of course I said thank you and went home and bought it online to save $75.
The whole system is sick. To start with, they should require payment of Sales Tax on internet interstate purchases. Including any NEW items (ones that have not already been taxed) on Amazon, eBay and the like.
Just my 2 cents. |
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Location: Connersville, Indiana | I know the economy sucks for everyone, guitars, cars homes ect., but could the areas we live in be a point if a guitar center stocks Ovations or not. Like here where I live between the corn rows of Indiana, if its not country or blue grass its not music. Everywhere you go the stores have Gibson and Martin guitars. I went to the guitar stores in Indianapolis a week ago and only found one store with Ovation guitars. All the new ones were TX or AX models except for a few used American built guitars. But a few months ago I was in Maryland and it seemed like every store I went to had some American built Ovations, along with a load of Asian made ones. I would get the same response when I use to play out with my Ovation. People would come up and ask it that was and Ovation or even What kind of Guitar is that. I was in Iowa two weeks ago at my son's house we went to some guitar stores and they had Asian built Ovations, lots of them along with of course Martins, Gibson, and Fender acoustics. So could it be a regional problem in sales of Ovation Guitars, and the music that is played mostly in that area. Did see a lot of Taks in Indy, Iowa and Maryland. Seems a lot of country artist are using them. I know thats what my brother uses and he is a country artist. Just wondering?
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Location: SoCal | I am convinced that Fender did not buy KMC for the U.S. built Ovation and Adamas line...from what I heard, it was the distribution/logistics facilities of KMC.
Fender has done a poor job with their non-electric guitars (as did Gibson)...doubtful if Ovation, Adamas, and the new line of Guilds will fare well.
About four months ago, I was in Buffalo Brothers...they had a couple of NOS Guilds from Corona but stated that they weren't getting any of the Connecticut Guilds. Might of changed but I doubt it.
Brick and mortar is no longer the source of guitars...new or used. I don't know if Fender understands this. In many cases, offshore replications of their U.S. made Fenders may be an entry level guitar for a new player but they cut into their U.S. production. Artist relations, road tours to allow players to check out the guitars, non-imposed minimums for guitar stores, etc., is necessary.
There are a lot of quality U.S. made Ovations and Adamas out there. It may cost you but the guitars are available. Heck, I might be selling about 30 of them over the next year (only because I have about 72 Ovation, Adamas, Takamine, and Martin). So rest easy...
Want to play first, get together with regional get-togethers. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | I think the industry is going through a change (it's going to be worse for book sellers). B&M are going to be a very limited market and people will more and more buy online. Often this means sight unseen, but that's not always as big a problem as it seems. People buying a non-entry guitar have a fair idea of what they want and how much they are willing to pay. As well as facilitating sales, the internet facilitates comparison - before going on holiday I can read reviews of what total strangers have said about the place where I am thinking of staying. It's the same deal with guitars - research, hunt around, read reviews, ask people and then make the choice. My last four guitars have all been purchased without an actual chance to play the particular instrument - I based my decision on my experience with similar guitars (e.g. other textured top Adamas) and on the opinions of others. This is working well for me, not so for the B&M folk. One of the major B&M music stores in Australia is in receivership and shutting their doors very soon. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | In the article I noticed this...
"But one of the biggest competitors for new Fender guitars is old Fender guitars. Many players believe — rightly or wrongly — that the Fenders of the 1950s, the ’60s and even the ’70s, when analysts say quality suffered, have a special something."
Even "we" have told people that a Used USA Ovation is better than a New Korean ovation.
(notice the little "o")
I will say that my new 1778TX is a NICE guitar.... But not a spectacular guitar.
It is Great guitar for what I paid for it,
but it is not worth MSRP or the market price of $599 without a case.
Now... A USA Elite T is a spectacular guitar for $600 with a case.
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2012-10-02 9:53 PM
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Just a few observations...
From Standing... "The stores choose what inventory to invest in, " That's not exactly true. Stores may choose what they can sell, but most times they are somewhat strong-armed into carrying items they can't sell. It's the same in many industries. You want 10 of these, you have to buy at least one of these. Fender and Gibson are the worst at this. I was told quite frankly by local store (before the the KMC/Fender merge) was that the reason he didn't carry Ovation was that after Gibson and Fender got done with him, he didn't have any more budget for inventory of anything else, and he HAD (as anyone can understand) to carry Fender and Gibson, but he's got a large area to cover. I don't remember the numbers he told me, but he could just order x number of fenders. It had to be x number from each price point.... or nothing.
Tafkar... You nailed it I think. GC, Sam Ash and a few others have the right idea. A sortof hybrid of brick'n mortar with online sales and that's tough especially for a smaller operation.
OMA - Many players believe Fenders of the 1950s, the ’60s and even the ’70s, have a special something.
That's a mouthful and I think there's more to it than just mojo. Guitars, especially Acoustic ones, tend to get better with age. Is an original Slothead better than the re-issues. I'd say they re-issues might be built better and may be more consistent, but at the same time, we won't know if they are tonally better for another 30 years. You can't compare a new guitar to an old one for sound, even if neither has ever been played. Wood ages, glues age, paint ages. I have a Viper neck that's been on three guitars so far. It's not because it's a great neck... it's because it's worn in all the right places already. Now add the "easy-to-sell-on-craigslist-or-ebay" factor and unless someone really wants a NEW guitar with a NEW warranty, there are plenty of great used older guitar out there at great prices.
Getting back to Standing's comment... BUYERS (us) are the problem or at least part of it, but it can't be helped. What is the motivation for buying a "new" guitar unless it's a custom when you can likely find a used one, or a blow-out stock new one, for cheaper. We can blame the economy but I don't think it's the lack of buying as much as the amount of people selling that's really having an affect. When people were able to afford to sit and wait for the best price on a used guitar on eBay, that was ok. Many times used guitars sold for MORE than their new counterpart. Heck, even I bought a few guitars at GC and sold them on ebay for profit. But now people are selling for what they can get. If there was only $100 difference between new and used, most would pay the extra $100 for new. But when there's $1000 difference... all of a sudden that warranty doesn't seem as important.
We'll just have to see what the future brings.
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | It's a different world. Musicians used to be heros, not the tech guys garner the hero worship and press.
Same thing happened to the pet industry. (I owned a pet shop in the 80s) Where kids used to have small rodents
and fish as a hobby they now want the latest App or game platform.
We'll just have to sit over here in our corner of the interweb, noodling on our antique guitars and polishing our
rotary dial phones..........and lamenting the passing of other 'horse & buggy' interests. |
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| I have to believe that some change in distribution/marketing is in order. All consumers have the ability to check prices nation wide and further. They don't care WHERE it comes from, if the bottom line price is right. The local stores take the hit. Why ? Because they have to buy inventory and pay for it while it sits. Then Joe Blow comes in and plays it and then gets a better deal online. The fix would be that the brick and mortar stores need to be able to sell at or near the online price. It's up to the manufacturers to make this work. However, when even the BIG places like Guitar Center aren't making money money and they do sell in the stores for the same price as online, there must be other issues. Maybe GC has too MUCH overhead with their B&M locations and aren't selling at a high enough margin. They sell so low because the OTHER nationwide places will beat them if they don't. Are any of the big guys making money ? Have they eaten themselves to the bone and the last one standing wins ?
You know what needs to happen ? They have the Apple design guy give the instruments face lift and call them i-Vations. Anything "i-" sells these days and the cult of Apple most of all. I want my preamp to have more features. No problem. Just get an IOS update downloaded.
Sounds funny, but maybe it isn't. Why couldn't someone make a "modeling" preamp that you could simulate any other guitar sound/pick-up that could be updated via a USB ? They have that in amps, but I see no reason you couldn't put in in the guitar.
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Location: Flahdaw | Why not just buy a generic "modeling guitar"? Push a button and your $59.95 Walmart "Guitar Hero" guitar sounds EXACTLY like a...
1. Martin D-28
2. Taylor 814
3. Collings
4. McPherson
5. Santa Cruz
Believe me, it's coming. The stomp boxes are already here, but they don't sound THAT good yet. Give the industry 10 years and they'll be no legitimate reason to pay thousands for a particular sounding guitar. There will always be personal or esoteric reasons to own the real thing, but if you are just chasing a SOUND, it will be there for a very cheap price.
I see a future with a guitar made completely from man-made components, great action, and a state of the art preamp that can do just about everything you could want and sound like any guitar you could want....all for a price of about $100 in today's dollars. Sad. |
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| So far, nothing digital sounds quite like analog. Many folks buy tube amps, even though they are more expensive.
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Location: Connersville, Indiana | Now doesn't Tak already have the pre amps that are interchangeable, just pop one in change out for a different sound, or is that something of a different matter all together?
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| I wasn't aware of that.
I guess the reason I brought it up was that I always considered Ovation guitars to be innovative and engineering based. ( You could even call them more "green" because they use less real wood, if that sold a few more in the tree hugging circles. ). From that, I would think they could use THAT as a selling point, some how. I know they have that Idea model that records your short riffs, and I guess that is what I would expect. In a huge market of guitars, that basically all look the same, Ovations should stand out in a positive way. If a marketing guy could figure out WHY they don't in so many circles, they could have an advantage. I know some people have said that they once led the way in acoustic guitar pick-ups and preamps, but have been passed on by, with newer stuff on many brands. Has anyone mounted one of those combination mic + undersaddle pickups in an Ovation ? Just thinking out loud, really.
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Location: Tennessee | darkbarguitar - 2012-10-03 4:38 PM Why not just buy a generic "modeling guitar"? Push a button and your $59.95 Walmart "Guitar Hero" guitar sounds EXACTLY like a... 1. Martin D-28 2. Taylor 814 3. Collings 4. McPherson 5. Santa Cruz Believe me, it's coming. Martin's Retro Series |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Bobbo nailed it...these are killer guitars and look as good as they sound...but you pay for it....and yet, if someone wants it, they will pay the cost....I'd love to own a retro series D-45...around 10 large is all it takes....but I believe they will sell every one that they make...someone will buy it.
Edited by MusicMishka 2012-10-04 1:32 AM
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Fender article from NY Times
