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Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Is there a website where I can get a good education about the different string formulations, manufacturing processes/differences andallkindsofstufflikethatthere? I know the fuzzy descriptions the string packages have on them. I'm looking for an impartial source that has understandable details...something like listening to Temp talk about soundwaves and fundamentals and the like.
I want to know these things because I gave up spending $$$$$for Elixers, and now use Earthwoods instead. They happen to be among the cheapest strings available, but I don't believe they're any different than anybody else's 80/20 strings. I need proof.
John <>{ |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | There's maybe half a dozen steel mills in the entire world that supply the string manufacturing industry. So basically every brand has pretty much the same raw materials. Various metals and alloys impart their tonal signature but it's really down to quality-control and manufacturing techniques. The rest is marketing.
Cheap strings are great, that's all I buy, the cheaper the better as far as I'm concerned especially with my body chemistry. I refuse to pay more than $2 a set for gig strings. However I'm a little worried that when I first started playing guitar a set of strings cost about £3.00 and a beer in a bar cost maybe a tenth of that. Now, 30-odd years on a set of good strings costs around £4.00 and a beer can cost more than that, depending on where and what you you drink. The smaller (good) stores survive on sales of shit like strings and accessories, and the margins on those are being beaten to a pulp by the internet.
Sorry John, I've kinda hijacked your thread and pointed it in a different direction. Strings are strings. They are all pretty much the same. Comparing Earthwood to say, D'Addario is about the same as comparing McDonald's to Burger King. Find a set you like and stick with'em, don't worry about the details, it's just hype. |
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Posts: 747
| I use Martin Lights on my acoustics because at $5.00 a set they are about the cheapest around here and they sound OK to me. I've used more expensive strings in the past but didn't notice them to be any better than cheap ones.
Interesting quote below.
Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
[QB] ... the cheaper the better as far as I'm concerned especially with my body chemistry. A set of strings lasts me about 3-4 hours of constant playing before they are dulled down so much as to really need changing.
It's most noticeable on my 1974 Ovation maybe because of the semi-shallow bowl and bridge pickup. The wooden guitars are not so bad. I've always wondered if chemistry had something to do with that; so, are some people more corrosive than others? |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland |
I've always wondered if chemistry had something to do with that; so, are some people more corrosive than others? [/QB] Are you kidding? YES! One of the guys in my band is still on a set of strings I gave him 3 months ago. On a gig I can kill a set in 20 minutes flat, and I'm talking gunge, rust and tonal meltdown. Not something I enjoy. |
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Posts: 2487
| Well nanoweb coatings on the elixir's seem to out last three or four or five sets of standard strings. If your going through a set every night or if (like you say) your going through them in 20 minutes then the $10 for a set of these is well worth the purchase price and then some. I know I am spending less on strings and I am not having to take so much time changing them and stretching out new sets before playing. There is a slightly less than normal brightness to the strings but I suppose this makes sense, overall the trade off is well worth the savings if your using a lot of strings.
Other than that most strings are most strings
Randy |
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Posts: 61
Location: Montréal, québec, Canada | I wouls ad , some people sweat is bad for strings
but not evreybody......
Keep your hands clean before you play and wipe your strings after playing.
In any ways keep playing that's good for you !!!!
coated strings do last longer but...
I've choosen Martin SP after triing a lot..
Good luck |
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Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Thanks folks.
Temp, you didn't hijack anything. What you said is exactly what I needed to hear. I'll continue with the Earthwoods. I do remember with fondness a few sets of Thomistiks on my 12 string, but never again will I pay $27 for a set of strings. John <>{ |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Not sure where Adamas strings fit into the quality continuum, but they're readily available in quantity which results in a very reasonable cost per set. |
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Posts: 153
Location: Huntington Beach, CA | I've found that coating preserves the fresh string-up sound, whether you like it or not. Non-coated strings are my preference. Then you need to decide between the various blends of 80/20, 85/15 or Phosphur Bronze, the latter producing a mellower sound.
If anyone knows of a website with details, I'd love to explore this also. I keep trying different things and don't yet have a "favorite". On my wood acoustics, I like the Martin EC Phosphur Bronze but I think they have been discontinued. Martin Marquees are fair. I'm playing a set of Gibson Masterbilts on my Elite and they sound great but are kind of an obscure brand. Does Harmony-Central critique strings?
Body chemistry definitely plays a part in sound and longevity. Some like the dulled down sound and others like the fresh string "zing". Evidently, I have dry acid-free skin so a set of strings lasts me literally months. I nevertheless occasionally experiment with coated strings and haven't been satisfied yet.
Martins, among many others, are now made in Mexico. I've had several SP sets where the spools have unraveled while stringing up. Frustrating! I actually complained to C.F. Martin & Co. and they've graciously sent me complimentary sets of strings. Unfortunately, they've been the same type, with the same problem.
If anyone knows of a site that provides detail as requested here, please post. Thanks.
-Eman. |
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Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | I used to use Elixir regular coated strings (nano or poly, it didn't make any difference).
Now I use the Elixir phospher bronze strings. Still costs about the same, but they don't look or feel like coated strings. They have a bright sound like new uncoated strings. They last forever, and don't shred like regular coated strings.
Why more people aren't trying them is beyond me.... |
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Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | There is a Huge Difference , Strings in Between !!
But do you really want to study Metallurgy ?..are you technically inclined ?..
There are differences in steel mills , the ones where " raw material " is being processed , and casted in big barrels , known as " coquilles " , then there are those that buy those , mix it with different Metals , the result is known as an Alloy , how an Alloy comes into being ( Temperature -Tempering etc . )is a closely guarded secret , if you really want to know all that , then Study Metallurgy , but for a guitar -picker , what would be important to you ..?..Tensility for example , Safety perhaps , ..VINCI strings are Highly Tensile , when one breaks , it jumps all over the place , CFM 3000 series are rather " stiff " , upon breaking it basically just falls down instead of twanging into a face , String making is a science , Austrian Thomastik -spectrum- strings ( allthough steel ) have a " classical sound " to them , German PYRAMID make strings that are very expensive , yet have a worn rusted look , because they have not been bleached , since that is a process that deteriorates the quality ( they sound good and last long ) , ofcourse ,some of it is marketing hype , yet , Do Realize : Quality Costs !!
Look ,I think it goes beyond the scope of this board to discuss the adding of wolfram to add a sharper "tinge" , or how molecular structure is influenced by inducing extremely low temperatures as in the case of cryogenic strings , but rest assured , many companies out there have sincere people at work who try and succeed in producing improved products , and that costs money , the cheapy strings are not bad , but they feel like sandpaper to me , the companies of high repute make strings that have a smooth feel , to achieve that requires knowledge , and years of painstaking research , which can not be explained in a simple post , ..I suggest that you have a look at this site....
http://www.answers.com/topic/strings-music?cat=entertainment
...and otherwise use the CFMartin , and D`addario string guide...
Vic
..when I was a young man I would ask the shop -keeper , :
" What are the best strings for my guitar ? "
..he replied : " Try for yourself "
I am glad CFM and D came out with those guides :) |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | To be honest, i think everyone has to find "their" strings. For me, i think best fit would be Elixir Phosphor bronze strings. I had only one set of them, i got them with Furch acoustic and they're great. I have this guitar for 1,5 month, i play on it daily and they still sound nearly as new. In the same time period i've changed strings on Legend 4 times. I have three more Martin sets and i switch Legend to Elixirs too.
I've tried about everything available in Poland, including Rotosound Country Gold, Phosphor Bronze, D'addario EXP's, 80/20, 85/15 bronzes and phosphor bronzes, various Martin strings, Erni Ball's etc, and for me Elixirs are most reliable so far. Rotosound's Country Gold sound better ,but they don't last in my guitars for more than 2 weeks. |
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA | Thank you HumblePie. That is a very informative site. Now we just have to match the manufacturers/models to the variety of products in order to try what appeals to us.
Never thought of the overwinding getting seperated from the core but I've experienced the phenomenon. Interesting!
Wonder what Titanium would sound like?
-Eman. |
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Posts: 2487
| Moody I don't think anyone is deliberatly not trying the elixir "Regular" coated strings. I personally have never seen a pack in the stores I try and buy strings from all the time. I will look them up and try them if they last like you say. And Thanks! I use the nano web as the poly webs do shred on me and the coating is all over the place. I play a lot so longevity is the most important factor. I also do a majority of it plugged in so the acoustic brightness is good but not the deciding factor for me. We all have different needs for strings. If your a once "A Monther Plucker" then buy the cheap ones and change them when it don't sound good anymore.
As for me I'll take the Elixir's anyday and twice when it comes to changing a 12 string guitar. And they don't cost all that much certainly not $27. Wheeew..
Randy |
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July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
Not sure where Adamas strings fit into the quality continuum, but they're readily available in quantity which results in a very reasonable cost per set. They are my string of choose regardless of price.
I really really hate coated strings. |
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Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | Originally posted by Northcountry:
As for me I'll take the Elixir's anyday and twice when it comes to changing a 12 string guitar. And they don't cost all that much certainly not $27. Wheeew..
Randy i don't think that anyone in US could complain for string prices.
Consider this:
normal price for D'Addario strings (non exp) = $17 (6 string), EXP - $25,
Elixir Phosphor bronze's - $40!!!
no complaining for string prices, please... ;-)
or there will be a five dollar fine for whining
;-) |
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Posts: 153
Location: Huntington Beach, CA | Paul,
I tried the Elixer Phosphur Bronze (nano coat) strings and they sounded and played very nice. Have you tried ClearTone coated strings? They advertise that they coat with winding before installation so the coating doesn't slough off during play. To me, they pretty much sound and play like Elixers but don't cost as much.
-Eman. |
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Posts: 2487
| Well LBJ did not know under the bed meant overseas I think you may be the first I've seen that does not post the country or area. No matter I did not know Strings were that much, where ever it is your from, anyway?
With how much things are changing here (pricewise), I might want to consider buying a few cases of strings. I payed about $9 a set (shipping included) when I bought fifteen or more at once last time. Wait a minute??? can't you order from the internet just like me?? Should be a similiar prices?? Or isn't it??
There are a few that have been mentioned I think it was Eman and or own PI that I will have to check out before I buy again. Summers coming it's the busy season, and I am still waiting on my guitars from the Mothership. Going to be crunch time soon for me. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Eman:
Paul,
I tried the Elixer Phosphur Bronze (nano coat) strings and they sounded and played very nice. Have you tried ClearTone coated strings? They advertise that they coat with winding before installation so the coating doesn't slough off during play. To me, they pretty much sound and play like Elixers but don't cost as much.
-Eman. Eman, Not sure if you were aiming this at Paul Moody or me, but here goes.... Coated strings are just ordinary strings with a barrier that resists corrosion. Gore, the people who invented GoreTex just bulk buy another manufacturers strings (industry gossip says usually D'addario) apply their GoreTex-derived coating and sell them at a premium as Elixer. Cleartone are just another perfectly ordinary string with a proprietary coating. Now for most people these coated strings can be a great idea. However I prefer the sound of uncoated strings. I can definately "hear" the coating and I don't like what it does. I'd be prepared to live with it except that I can bulk-buy Chinese-made strings for around 50 cents a set that sound better to me for one gig than an $8 set of Elixers or whatever, given my rancid, acidic hands. I'd rather change strings every gig than deal with the sound of coated strings. At wholesale I can bulk buy good USA-made strings at a price that means I don't care about putting then on for one gig and changing them for the next. A couple of dollars to earn a couple of hundred. I got a few dozen sets of Elixers free a while ago and they stay on the guitars that don't gig. And they get changed for non-coated if I need to do anything serious, like recording. |
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Posts: 5332
Location: Bluffton, SC | Paul (Moody) - do you use the Elixer Phosphor Bronze on the 1537? I usually buy the Elixer's because they do last me longer and I do like the sound but I bought a set of the EPB and I thought they sounded insanely brassy. I took them off within a week and went back to nano's and I'm looking for something a little warmer yet.
Paul (Temp) - what do you use when you do something serious, like record? And do you find it really matters if you can adjust (bright/warm, etc.) at the board? |
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Location: SoCal | Weas, my 1537 is not a bright guitar. My 87 Collectors is. Go figure. Right now I have the same strings on both.
And I would guess that Temp will tell you that you want the best sound you can get going into the board so that you only have to tweak it slightly at the board. You don't want to try and change the sound of the guitar at the board more than you have to. ie, you can't make a $100 Silvertone sound like one of the original Adamii slotheads.
Just a guess.... |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Paul (Temp) - what do you use when you do something serious, like record? And do you find it really matters if you can adjust (bright/warm, etc.) at the board? Usually D'Addario or John Pearse but I'm not that fussy, any good USA-made string that I can buy wholesale. I won't use the Mexican-made Martins or the cheap Chinese stuff unless it's plugged in at a gig. Even then it has to be cheap and good, and I won't use cheap strings that don't sound as good as say, a coated string. As long as they're as good as that for one show, they'll do.
Yes it matters, if you have strings that are inconsistent in tone and amplitude nothing you do at the board will correct it. You can't polish a turd. Recording works on the principle of crap in = crap out. When recording I try to have a great-sounding instrument, great mikes and the best possible recording environment. That way you can pretty much forget about corrective EQ at the board. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | The main reason I get rid of the coated strings when recording is that they sound to me when new like a nicely-played in set. When I'm recording I want something with a little more punch and sparkle, especially from the wound strings. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | I can hardly wait until I can discern the diff twix 20/80, 15/85, coated/uncoated, S&S, etc.! 
Up to this point I've restrung mostly with nano/poly. I did purchase some different types recently to experiment with but have yet had to use 'em. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Strings are a very personal thing. There's no right or wrong answer and you gotta go with what your ear, your fingers, and your wallet tell you is right. The only way to find out is to try different kinds and arrive at your own conclusions.... |
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Looking for string education
