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April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Hey all -- I just discovered this site, although I've been playing an Ovation for years, since I bought this '73 Balladeer in about 1981. (I also own a electric solid-body 'viper', which I think is from the late '70's, and is an absoloute workhorse...been a joy to have and play).
I took the Balladeer into a guitar tech when it refused to play amplified sound...even AFTER installing a new battery! Long story short, the guitar tech (seems like a good guy, came recommended, works with a regional music store here on the East Side of the Seattle region) went through it and said the electronics are basically shot, the volume pot has gone bad, and it's a sealed-unit, not original (! - news to me) and he can't get a replacement unit. He tried to clean it up and it's now working when the volume knob is set at about 80%, but not less and not more.
He basically gave it back to me saying that's all he can do. Can't get replacement parts, doesn't have a comparable replacement. He more than implied it was time for a new guitar, pionting out a weakeness in this era Ovation tops (they seperate below the saddle?) and noted that this particular guitar has been modified anyway and it probably isn't worth the work of new innards.
My question: Does anybody know where else I can go for a second opinion in the Seattle area? The guitar has been very good to me and I can hardly believe that it would be too difficult to track down a replacement unit (volume/tone knob pots & amplifier unit) and have it installed. Hell, I'll tackle it myself if I have to.
I've enjoyed reading this site, and get the feeling that I've found a spot I'll be returning to. Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.
- Craig |
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Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | If you like and want to keep this guitar, send it to the Mothership in Connecticutt. Terrific customer service and the guitar will come back looking and performing like new.
FWIW, there is a lot of misinformation and some outright animosity out there regarding Ovations. Don't believe everything negative that you hear about them.
Welcome to the site. You will find lots of great information and friendly ACCURATE advice here. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Welcome Craig. Let me be the second of many people who will tell you to talk to the folks at the factory. It might be best to send it to them to work their magic, but they can tell you that.
There's a lot of folks in your general area who check in here often. |
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Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Sounds like a good plan. While the notion of shopping for and buying a new guitar is appealing (I see that so far owning several guitars hasn't harmed any of YOU...heh, heh) this is has been a strong performer and I should think worth a round trip back to the factory.
I've e-mailed this same question to the email address for the CT folks on the Ovation website.
Thanks for the quick replies.
- Craig |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Greetings Craig.... You came to the right place! (I'm just not the one with the answers...)
But mention to your Luthier that you have a 35 year-old Ovation, and it ain't fallen apart yet!
And if his diagnosis is correct, you just get another pre-amp and put it in!
He may not be able to get one, but it can be gotten.
There are many members in the Seattle area, or at least in WA...
Mr. Ovation, Damon67, Edenharvest and Seesquare come to mind quickly.
Someone on this site can direct you, or maybe hook-you-up with an old one knobber.
Welcome and Stick Around. :cool: |
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April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Hey, thanks to all for the comments. I have been in contact with the factory, and instead of shipping it back there, I just bought replacement electronics and will attempt to install the whole set-up myself when they arrive here. Somehow, I don't see taking the guitar back to the tech who wouldn't even contact Ovation about getting replacement electronics, do you? The replacement parts seem to be readily available! And in any event, I can't imagine that the installation of the new set up could be that difficult.
Oh, and I learned something new. I thought I owned a "Balladeer"...turns out that it's a "Legend", one of their top-of-the line from that era. So, I'm already getting smarter as a result of joining the Ovation fan club!
So, I'll try to remember to post a final comment here when I've got the guitar back together and let you know how it goes.
- Craig |
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February 2008
Posts: 247
Location: Delaware | Craig, first, welcome. You're gonna meet alot of knowledgeable people on this site. (Me excluded !). They have helped me plenty. Changing out the preamp is no big deal. Remove the strings completely and just work gently from the inside takeing notice of what goes where and what plugs into what. I just replaced the same in my 1612. The factory (M S) shipped it to me right away, I installed it, cleaned and oiled the fretboard, polished the sound board, installed new strings and was plugged in in about an hour. Good luck.
P.S. I did have to file (dremel tool) out the inside of the new knobs just a little bit, as thew were an extremely tight fit and I didn't want to force them on. |
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Posts: 186
Location: The State of Hockey | Craig, Welcome and I want to add that I finally have sent one to the mothership. Although I haven't received the finished product I am very happy with the decision to send it to them. |
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | Hi Craig,
I'm just now seeing this, so a belated welcome! You and I are practically next door.
I came into the forum in a similar way. I had questions about where I should get work done on my Ovation solidbody electric, and was directed to the "Mothership". I wouldn't trust any Eastside techs with that baby.
May I ask who the tech was?
Damon |
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May 2008
Posts: 2
Location: Tampa | Hey fellow Ovation-ophiles, I'm new to the forum. I stumbled upon this thread during a search... I had the same problem, and was hoping there was someone else out there with some advice! Just thought I'd resurrect the thread here.
I've got a Custom Balladeer, manufactured in '88, with the FET3 preamp. I had a similar experience when mine started to go bad. I could only get sound out of the pre with the volume pot at about 3. It slowly got worse until it wouldn't output any sound in any position. I ripped the electronics out to attempt a fix, but thought I'd rather just replace it considering its 20 years old now.
Has anyone, or does anyone known of someone who has attempted a preamp upgrade? I would love to replace it with maybe one with a few more features, but I'm not sure what's available. Are there other preamps with the same footprint that could be swapped in? With the newer ones being all curvy as opposed to just a rectangle, I'm assuming those wouldn't work. (I'd rather not set to drilling, routing, or otherwise sawing at the bowl just to force in an op-pro or similar pre.) Any suggestions? |
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Posts: 2
Location: Tampa | Ok, I must admit I didn't search the archives until after that first post. So it seems from past threads that the op-24+C, op-24E and the optima are the only suitable FET3 replacements, and the factory won't do upgrades.
I guess my new question would be: Has anyone swapped out a FET3 for a non-FET3 pre, and is it a clean swap, or is there some modification to the bowl necessary? Ovation's website doesn't give dimensions. |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Quick update --
I just returned from vacation, and a package is waiting here from ovation, which figures to be the new preamp for my guitar. I'll re-post after I've had a chance to try the installation and let you all know how it goes.
- Craig |
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March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | Mother can do just about anything you want, and everythign they do is first class. I've read on this forum about upgrades to the 'swoopy' pre-amps on older O's, so you might find something in archives. My own experience with sending a battered old Legend back to the 'ship — and the beautiful instrument I got back — was a great experience. I hope none of that changes under their new Fender ownership. |
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April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Okay, well, I managed to set myself up the other night and installed the pre-amp that Ovation sent out...and ended up with half a guitar. Every other string is amplified when I plug it in! It would be funny if it wasn't sort of sad...Oh, wait, it IS funny.
But I've got to go back in a fix the thing.
the problem, no doubt, goes back to the fact that in this guitar there were two leads coming off of the pickup, and I thought that only one was plugged into the preamp that came out of the guitar (it's been modified somewhere along the line). So I just plugged that one back into the new preamp box. (1/8" jack, only one available on the preamp box they sent me).
Must be that I need to plug them both in...the question is, how? have i got some sort of Frankenstein setup in my guitar?
(Oh, the setup that I removed had 'stereo' as an option, with a second, stereo output jack that I never used. So the new preamp is only a single output, mono I'm assuming, and I just clipped off and reinstalled the other output jack so there was something in that hole...is that a modification? I've never heard of stereo as a factory or original option)
I've written the factory again and will talk to them as needed to figure it out and then I'll keep y'all updated. We'll get there! |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | The guitars with the stereo outputs have two female jacks, one for stereo and one for mono. If you plug a normal cable into the stereo jack, you get every other string. Into the mono, it's fine. It sounds like you are getting the stereo jack effect on the new preamp that only has the mono output. If you haven't yet, try connecting the other lead from the pickup to the preamp. If that works, tape off the lead you don't use. |
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April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Oh, man, that's Waaaaay too Simple. Even I might be able to make a repair like that.
Falls under the "why didn't I think to try that?" category. duh. |
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Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | Craig,
Once you have that fixed, grab it and the Viper and come on over!
Damon |
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April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Okay, update on repair:
While Mark in Boise had an idea that was elegant in it's simplicity (which is usually the right answer), well, maybe it's not so eimple.
I got my hand back into the body of the guitar this evening and swapped the little tiny cables. (Trying to do this without taking off ALL the strings, putting undue stress on the guitar, breaking any little wires or such). The good news is that yes, that move did amplify the other 3 strings very nicely! The bad news...the three strings that I had amplified last night are now dead.
Obviously, the two leads from the pickup are each dedicated to three alternating strings...so I'm back to my original question of....WTF?
I'm waiting for the Ovation folks to get back to me. I would have called, but I didn't save their number (it was in their earlier e-mail reply to me), and they cleverly only provide an e-mail address on their website.
I'll keep you posted. Not that anybody else cares all that much at this point, but damn it, I'm getting more invested every day! (and closer to a solution...did you know it took Edison about 1500 tries before he got a light bulb that worked basically the way he envisioned it?) |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | If it was so simple that even I could think of it, it probably wasn't going to work. Now I'm wondering if the pickup and preamp won't match. We don't care how long it took Edison to invent the lightbulb, but we can spend several pages talking about guitar strings. |
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Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Hey Mate,
A least we don't leave you stranded and alone.
Good work Mark
AJ |
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April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Thanks, Mark and James -- I appreciate the support...much better than going it alone.
Ovation replied this morning, and the email said: "Your system sounds like it's working fine, but you have a stereo pickup. You have 2 choices: you can wire the two leads from the pickup together in parallel before they reach the preamp, or replace the pickup with a mono unit".
This is helpful, but only to a point. So I've asked them to elaborate a little and recommend a direction for me to go.
specifically, how hard would it be to replace the pickup(s)? And would wiring the leads in parellell simply mean taking the sheilding and tying it all together and the center leads together (they are little tiny sheilded cables, from what I'm seeing) to a single jack?
I suppose replacing the pickup would be a more elegant solution (match everything up, as Mark pointed out), but tying the leads together sounds like it would be fairly painless.
I'll let y'all know what the Ovation folks say...in the meantime if anybody wants to take a crack at advising me here, I'm all ears!
Thanks. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Somebody had a pickup for sale here awhile ago. I can't remember what wiring in parallel vs. wiring in series means. You could probably find that out somewhere and decide which you'd rather do. I don't think there's any difference in the quality of the mono and stereo pickups. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4081
Location: Utah |
specifically, how hard would it be to replace the pickup(s)? And would wiring the leads in parellell simply mean taking the sheilding and tying it all together and the center leads together (they are little tiny sheilded cables, from what I'm seeing) to a single jack?
I suppose replacing the pickup would be a more elegant solution (match everything up, as Mark pointed out), but tying the leads together sounds like it would be fairly painless. Parallel is indeed just tying the two shields together and then the two centers together. If you can operate a soldering iron it should be pretty simple, although I've not looked at your system.
Replacing a pickup is pretty simple. Mine is glued to the bottom of the saddle, yours probably is too (but I'm not an expert on different model Ovations). Take the strings off, or loosen them a lot. THen wiggle the saddle out of the slot. You'll see the wire(s) going down through a hole in the bridge. Unplug the wire(s) from the preamp and gently pull them through the hole in the bridge. Then install the new saddle/pickup assembly using the reverse sequence. |
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April 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Issaquah, WA | Alright, kids, just to finish the circle, here, I think I made a promise to let you know the "final result" if and when I had one.
The quick and dirty is that I did order a new (mono) pickup from Ovation, they shipped it out, and damn if replacing it wasn't waaay too easy. I didn't realize that the saddle just pops out once the strings are off, but it does. and the new unit slipped in there just about right (you can't even get it reversed, since the cable slips through a hole at one end).
Works great. Finally picking up on all strings, firing on all cylinders as it were.
There's a new, small issue that cropped up. I did notice when I compared the new and old unit that tne new unit appeared to be ever so slightly less "tall" than the one that came out...and sure enough, now I'm getting some buzzing that I didn't have before.
Now that my luthiering (is that a word?) confidence is up, the next time I change strings I'll pull the pickup and install another shim under it. There's already one, appears to be a nylon-plastic material a little less thick than, say, a credit card. I suspect that if I can come up with one more matching shim that will bring me back to the string height I was happy with before. So that about wraps up the story.
I'm sorry I wasn't able to make the NW gathering! It sounds like fun, the pictures were nice to see. We have been travelling a LOT in June, so I'm happy to be home strumming just a little more for the rest of the NW summer. All two or three weeks of it. |
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March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | Thanks for the update. Yes, shimming will help alleviate buzz. And funny you should mention credit card — why not try a sliver off an old VISA card next time you have the strings off. (And remove the shim that's in there). The extra few thousandths might give you just the height you need. For a bit more detail in how to set string height (and adjust the truss rod), go here and scroll down to "Ovation Factory Setup" on page 9:
http://www.ovationguitars.com/img/OVmanual.pdf |
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Repair Questions - 1973 Balladeer (1617-4)
