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March 2010
Posts: 12
| Forgive me for hitting right another newbie topic, I'm just so glad to have found ppl that actually do answer questions and help me along!
I've noticed that my B-string is extremely difficult to keep in tune. If I play D major, the d'' is too high. If I play E minor, the b'' is too low. It drives me nuts and hurts my ears.
I've read in other threads that this happens when strings get old. Is that right? Actually, I'd hoped that they would last longer - they're D'Addario EXP's and just little over a month old. I've played about half an hour to an hour a day.
Or is there something wrong with the neck?
Thanks y'all! |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Well, first things first. What model guitar is it, and has it ever had any repair work or changed parts? Second, is the string actually detuning, or is it purely the intonation? What about any of the other strings? |
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Posts: 602
Location: Hanau, Hessen, Germany | I had a similar problem with my FUD. The B-String was hard to get in tune, and when it was and I played a few minutes it detuned all the time. I changed the strings and the problem disappeared. |
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Posts: 103
Location: Verona,Italy | You can try to find out where the problem is, there are three possibilities:
1)Tuners
2)Nut
3)Bridge
In my experience, #1 is the most common, if it's #2 you may need to reslot it or use a thicker B string, if #3 it's possible that the angle of attack of the string is insufficient or the slot is too large per point #2. |
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Posts: 4067
Location: Utah | Change strings first. Be sure you're using "lights", at least for this new set of strings. That is what the guitar is designed for.
If that doesn't cure it, I'd bet it is the nut. If the nut slots are too high, the string has to bend down a lot when you fret in the first 5 frets, but doesn't bend much for the higher frets. That excess stretching in the first few frets will make the pitch sharp.
The quick check is to capo between the second and third frets. Then look really closely at how much space is under each string at the first fret. Your nut is the zero fret and so the strings should just barely clear the first fret. With reading glasses on, I can just barely see any space there. You can also try tapping the string down onto the first fret. There should be the most minimally detectable movement of the string before it hits the top of the fret.
All of the Ovations I've tried have had the nut cut a tad too high. Only my Adamas came with a really finely adjusted nut. The difference between marginal and excellent is quite small, and takes a bit of labor. I can understand why the extra attention only goes into expensive guitars.
You can do it yourself with a set of nut files from StewMac if you are handy with tools. Worst case is you ruin the nut and have to pay your luthier $75 to replace it. Or take the guitar in and pay him maybe $30 or so for him to file it. Be specific in what you want.
It should also be added that your basic setup should be checked. If there is too much relief in the neck or if the bridge is too high, it can cause intonation problems as well.
If you're really picky about intonation, look into the Buzz Feiten system. |
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December 2004
Posts: 573
Location: Denmark | If strings are reasonably new and intonation at 12th fret matches the harmonic at 12th fret and frets are not badly worn then it is probably related to the nut.
If the kind of behavior is sort of recent it could be dirt in the B-string groove or string corrosion resulting in a badly seated string.
If it is more long term behavior it could be a badly cut groove. Either insufficiently deep or with insufficient back slope or too narrow for the string gauge.
So, first try to clean the groove. If the string makes ticking noises when tuning the string, the groove maybe a bit tight. If not too severe it helps cleaning the groove and aplying a tiny amount of vaseline for lubrication. |
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March 2010
Posts: 12
| Thanks very much for all the help! FlySig, I'll definitely check into that and let you know.
It's a Celebrity CC24S-5, never had any repair work or changed parts. The string isn't detuning, it's just virtually impossible to get in tune with both chords mentioned above.
Now that I really put my ear to the guitar, the G String has a similar problem, not as bad though. When playing first fret, the note is a little sharp. Sounds like the nut, no?
So, I'll
1) Check the capo thing.
2) Buy lights, (these were .12 and the original ones the guitar came with)
3) recheck the basic setup.
Thx again.
Cuthbert, what did you mean by #tuners? That the tuner doesn't give the right frequency? |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by plain jam:
It's a Celebrity... Problem solved! |
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June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Crap.......I've got a CSE44........intonates perfectly........even with old strings.
I'm with Flysig.......string height or binding at the nut is very important and often overlooked!!
AJ |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Earvana Nut anyone? |
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Posts: 12
| muzza, now THAT was really helpful. I should've bent my knee before your throne first... |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Hey, I'm an Ovation snob.
I've got issues with Asian guitars having 'Ovation' written on the headstock. In my opinion one of the root causes for Ovation's lowly and much derided status amongst acoustic guitarists. |
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Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by plain jam:
muzza, now THAT was really helpful. I should've bent my knee before your throne first... Rather cheeky, for a noob. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15676
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by G8r:
Originally posted by plain jam:
muzza, now THAT was really helpful. I should've bent my knee before your throne first... Rather cheeky, for a noob. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Usually when I'm on bended knee before the throne, I'm driving the porcelein bus. |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | YASRN |
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March 2010
Posts: 12
| If those of us who can't afford to buy a decent Elite or Adamas are not supposed to be part of the community, we need a subforum for the lower price range so we don't get in your way. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Hey PJ, don't sweat it. With a worldwide audience and over 7000 members, you get all types here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether others agree or not. Many of us here, including myself, have Asian built Ovations and stand by them as excellent guitars at a very nice price point.
The one thing that is off-limits is a personal attack on another poster. Your comment was right on the edge, and that was why one of the longer standing members admonished you a bit. Don't take it too personally ... it was just meant to herd you back into acceptable limits before the moderators had to get involved.
You've got a very nice 12-string. Probably better than 90% of them out there. You'll get a lot from this community, and we hope you'll contribute a lot too. Regardless of where your guitar was made. :cool: |
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March 2010
Posts: 12
| You know, I enjoy being part of the community. I politely posed a question, got excellent advice and appreciated it very much.
My comment was off the mark, agreed, yet I was a little irritated about how after the question was nicely settled someone felt the need of adding some don't-waste-your-sweat-on-an-inferior-product flavor to it. I didn't need that, and I didn't ask for it. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by plain jam:
If those of us who can't afford to buy a decent Elite or Adamas are not supposed to be part of the community, we need a subforum for the lower price range so we don't get in your way. Actually that's not a bad idea. In fact sub forums for Electrics, Adamas, and Setup/Repair would be nice.
YASRN. Too frequent for my taste. |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by plain jam:
can't afford to buy a decent Elite or Adamas.... That's another myth. A good second hand US Ovation is Often cheaper than a new celebrity. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | And that is scary too, Muzza...
I often see CSE and CDX solid top Celebrity's selling for more than Elites and Balladeers.
Yeah, I am sure that they are nice guitars...
But if I can get an Elite T or an LX for around $500 why would I spend more on a CDX44?
And PJ, I have owned my share of Celebrity's...
Sometime some members do seem a bit snobbish about USA-Made, but it ain't personal. |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by muzza:
A good second hand US Ovation is Often cheaper than a new celebrity. That's a good point. If you have a fixed budget in mind that precludes new USA models, then by all means the best place to start is look for a used USA model guitar. |
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Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | A Celebrity with ORIGINAL strings? Change the strings! |
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June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | I said old.....not original...... :D
AJ |
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intonation problems?
