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Posts: 66
| Almost got my ass kicked in the local Guitar Center Last week.I was in the small high end acoustic room(you know the one,all their stores have them), and said out loud that the Martins and Taylors kinda sucked compared to my LX1778.
And by the way,the Gibson's really stunk.Muddy sound,cheap tuners,just a ripoff.
Anyway,an aged 3 chord hippy enlisted the help of the salsman to lecture me on my lousy attitude.
At that point I realized that these stores are afraid of the upper end Ovations.
I bought my 1778LX for 700 bucks at a GC 3 years ago.I would not have traded for any guitar in the room, period.Even the 3200.00 Martin.
They look and play like toys compared to an LX.
We Ovation folks are like a secret club. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by rigger173:
We Ovation folks... ... have a secret club, Lyrachord! ;) |
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Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | This is why I find most guitar stores very disappointing. You see all these expensive guitars, but when you play them ... Meh. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I find that the non-chain stores tend to have better sounding guitars for whatever brand they happen to be carrying.
Maybe it's the playing atmosphere but overall they just seem to have the "better" guitars. |
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Posts: 370
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | I know exactly what rigger is referring to...
I was in one of the local 'high end' music stores recently doing their climate controlled, 'expresso bar' acoustic room and was just appalled at what passes for primo acoustics these days.
Along one wall they had approximately 15-20 Taylors and I went through the line and only found one that sounded appreciably better than my iDea guitar (retail price $299 USD...). This guitar had a price tag on it of 3200 CAD!!
The situation improved somewhat when I crossed the room to another wall that was stocked with Larivees. These sounded WAY better, but I was still somewhat depressed at how much the quality of these had fallen since the last time I had tried one in the early 80's.
None of the music stores here in Winnipeg stock Ovations in any great numbers and most of the ones they do have are all lower end.
When I tell people that I use Ovations for acoustics they generally give this 'smirk' (you know the one I mean...). Most have never seen an Adamas (probably never will...) and their acoustic guitar worldview is shaped entirely by what they see in that posh, albeit overpriced glass room...
How very sad... |
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Posts: 7
| I support my local "ma 'n pa" music stores, even if it costs me a little more $$. It's worth it to me. GC takes the fun out of getting new gear. If you want a cure for GAS, shop at Guitar Center. All the ones I've been to (Michigan), the employees are like cheap used car salesmen. "Dude, that pedal rocks man, I've been using it for years." Ask about specifics or about anything technical, they look at you like a dog staring at a ceiling fan. They have quantity, but absolutely no quality. I've never come out of that store satisfied with the experience, so I don't shop there anymore.
As for Ovations, I love them. I've received so many compliments on the beautiful sound it makes from people who don't know an Ovation from a Martin. They are there to listen to the music, and they always send compliments. Plus, I love the sound, and that's enough for me.
My $0.02. |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I much prefer the small shops. Just wish there were more of them. GC is convenient for replacing consummables in emergencies, and every now and then, if you happen to be there when some kid is dumping his gear for $.10 on the dollar, you might be able to cash in on a deal. I bought a Fender amp for $20 and two speaker stands retailing at over $100 each for $15 for the pair by being in the right place at the right time. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by rigger173:
I realized that these stores are afraid of the upper end Ovations. Really?
GC has the ability to stock upper end Ovations, so there is no risk that it takes away business. If an upper end Ovation steals a sale away from a Taylor or Martin, so what. A sale is a sale and a good business person couldn't give a shit what the actual name on the headstock is.
The brand or model to be afraid of are the ones that your competitor stocks and sells and you do not. You risk people leaving your store and going to the competitor to buy. Maybe for example Guilds are really hot these days and GC isn't a Guild dealer, so they risk people turning away from Taylor and going over to Street Sounds and buying a Guild. That's something to be afraid of.
But afraid of one model/brand that you can carry vs. another model/brand that you can carry is a complete wash. It's all about units sold. If upper end Ovations were hot sellers, GC would be smart enough to stock a ton of them.
The fact that we (the OFC) are all ga-ga about upper end Ovations doesn't necessarily mean that a shop can make a living selling them to the masses.
JMTC |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Quantity vs Quality... Well Put.
There are two GC's in my area... Neither is easily accessible unless you own a car.
I have gone to both of them with plans on trying-out guitars.
They had many guitars, just nothing that I was looking for.
And yeah, the atmosphere was not really appealing.
(All the charm of a Costco or Grocery Outlet) |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I happen to like the charm of Costco.
All those little old senior citizen women offering me free food......what's not to like! |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Rigger, what you did is like walking in to a biker bar and yelling out that Harleys suck. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | The fact that we (the OFC) are all ga-ga about upper end Ovations doesn't necessarily mean that a shop can make a living selling them to the masses. Unfortunately, the truth hurts! I can think of but a handful of recent posts on the OFC about a New high end Ovation guitar that was recently purchased. In comparison, on the OFC, I can think of many non-Ovation high end guitars that were recently purchased. Even Al has recently commented on the length of time it took for the OFCII to sell out (and if anyone has taken a look at the new retail price for a 1687 on the new website, the OFC II was a bargain and a half).
Before anyone gets their tighty whities in a wad, one's guitar choice is a highly personal one and their business as it should be. From a business point of view, it comes down to basic supply/demand economics: If the demand is not present, the supply will eventually dry up as well...
I know that is not what many of the Ovation lovers want to hear, but it is just plain fact. The point that GC (and other stores) can stock High End O's and A's may be true but it is still a consumer driven industry...proper marketing plays such a huge part in creating the demand.
While I am glad to see the new website, there has to be a market which equates right back to the demand = supply reality...
.02 |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Excellent Post !!! |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Seems to me that MOST of the buyers of the upper end O's and A's are reasonably well off 50+ year old white men. Don't see much marketing targeted at that demographic by Ovation. Maybe they should advertise in AARP magazine.
Just heard on the news today that about the only ones spending money right now in this economy are affluent seniors. |
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August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | The Guitar Centers and Sam Ash's have pretty much driven out the Mom and Pop music stores in the Cincinnati area. There's essentially one left, although they have six stores in the region and are not quite the local neighborhood music store. It's Buddy Rogers, and they're great music stores. The atmosphere is great, and they don't have pimply faced kids hacking out "Stairway to Heaven" or "Smoke on the Water" ad nauseum on a telecaster (which I always find amusing, because these kid's DADDIES were gleams in their daddy's eye when those songs were written). Buddy's is a great place to go for accessories and supplies.
Unfortunately they don't stock Ovations. Of any kind - low or high end.
I use a CS 257 and an Ibanez AEF 18 TVS for playing out, and a wonderful '71 Balladeer and mint '74 Pacemaker for recording. Those two old Ovations, for my money, have more tone than those high-enders hanging on GC's walls.
As far as it goes, I'd have to go 50 miles up the road to Dayton to find places where I would have a decent selection of high-end Ovations to choose from.
Supply and demand... |
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Posts: 3969
| You might be on to something, db. I came a cross a glossy mag at the bookstore the other day, can't remember the name of it. It was ostensibly about (high-end) guitars, but clearly targeted to the "successful" middle-aged guy. There were as many, if not more, beautifully photographed advertisements for high-end audio components, expensive wine & liquor, fine cigars, and expensive sports cars as there were about guitars. All of the ads featured well-dressed, graying-temple men with hot young women on their arms, looking at their sugar daddies with adoring & more than slightly lusting gazes. The publishers know exactly what demographic they want to attract. Ovation could advertise the Adamas line there, since the whole mag is aimed at men trying to recapture their lost yute. |
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Posts: 370
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | I think the point about supply and demand is valid, but just once I would like to go into a guitar shop and see two Adamas' for every five Taylors.
If that shop existed somewhere, I'm fairly certain, within a year those numbers would be reversed...
You can't buy something that isn't there.
I don't know what the spending demographic in the States is (with the economy the way it is...), but here in Canada it is the 25-30 year old educated singles, with good jobs that are driving the economy. They have TONS of money to blow and are very into toys. Give them the option of taking home an Adamas (rather than an over-priced wooden box...) and they probably will!! |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by dark bar:
reasonably well off 50+ year old white men. You forgot attractive... |
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Location: Cicero, NY | And humble... |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Waskel:
Originally posted by dark bar:
reasonably well off 50+ year old white men. You forgot attractive... |
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March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Attractive old rich white guys would limit the market too much. If you include humble, Weaser would be the only one left.
GC obviously caters to the younger crowd and seems to want to push Taylors as the preferred acoustic. I've seen the salespeople steer customers away from Ovations with the "it slips off your knee crap" to a Taylor or Martin. The only new Ovation our local GC has had in years is the iDea and no one there knew how to work the preamp. If the salespeople have no interest in selling the guitars, the only buyers will be old farts like me who occasionally see a deal. OK for me, but not good for the brand. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | If EVERYbody liked 'em, WE wouldn't be so special... |
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Location: closely held secret | You still would be, Phil. |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Just my $.02 worth, but some of these comments are based on a presumption that Ovation has an over abundant supply of new Adamas models that they need to move, or that they otherwise want or need to produce and sell more. I'm not sure I subscribe to this thinking. Last time I toured the factory, the Adamas custom shop consisted of a couple of workbenches in the corner. There were 2 or maybe three people working in the area. It looked like there were maybe a dozen models in the process of being built. With such limited resources and labor-intensive processes in place, I'm not sure Ovation wants to increase their production of Adamas models. If they're able to sell most everything else off their product lines, maybe they don't need to sell more Adamas models. Maybe they can't afford to increase production. I do know that at present, if you want a new custom Adamas, they will still make one for you, and for that, I am grateful. |
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April 2008
Posts: 1851
Location: Newington, CT | Small observation...It might truly be ALL in the marketing.
The nearest store to me is Daddy's Junky Music...a small to mid-size chain. They have high-end guitars ONLY when they take them in trade. I've recently seen, expensive Taylors, Martins, Larrivees, and...Ovations (though no Adamii).
I've lusted after 'em, and tried to bargain -- to no avail -- for them. The reason they won't haggle: these guitars NEVER last more than two weeks in the store. I've watched some VERY nice slightly higher-end Ovations (Elites, usually) come in and go out, each in only a couple of days.
I've asked Daddy's personnel several times why they have so few high-end Ovations, and the answer is always: They don't sell.
Armed with my Ovation obsevations, I've challenged the two seemingly contradictory statements -- (1) We won't bargain because high-end guitars sell quickly enough, and (2) we don't have high-end Ovations because they don't sell quickly enough -- and I receive only a blank look.
Gotta get some Ovation awareness out there! |
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Guitar Center scene
