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Location: Newington, CT | As some of you are aware, I bought seesquare's MondoMando on eBay a few weeks back. I promised I'd put something together and post it in due time. Well, I've done it, and it's ready for your perusal.
The MondoMando does all the bass parts for this selection -- called "Steady Rain" -- and to my ear it has a "Renaissance music" flavor to it. I layered in several MondoMando "bass" tracks and a couple of guitar leads. The guitar leads are on the now legendary OFC II. Then I used the resulting .mp3 file (assembled in Audacity, of course) as a backing track for yet another solo jam session on video; again with the OFC II taking the lead. I edited the video using Corel's Video Studio software.
Of course, since I'm the only one playing, the "composition" develops over some time, as new layers go in. It's not the easiest way to put together something with structure and sections, etc., so I frequently end up surrendering to the temptation to cobble together a loosely designed solo jam session. That's the case here.
Now, I know that my stuff is not most OFC'ers' cup o'tea (charitable way to put it -- some have expressed, shall we say, "strident" dislike for it), but I don't mind. And, I confess, I actually like quite a few of the things I've made, and go back to them often just to listen. I figure that constitutes MY test of "good music." This is one of the ones I like.
You may feel free to dump on it to your heart's content. Or, even, if the mood hits you, put in some constructive criticism. It's all welcome.
It's here . |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | First, I'm gladdened the Mondo is being put-through-its-paces. I heard it's low drone through that piece nicely. The lead parts are very intricate, with lots of movement & activity. I just find it all a bit busy. I wasn't sure which layer to attend to, without trying to appreciate another of the many layers.
Also, the relative mixing. The lead part should have been more dominant, as least that's the way it come across on my playback. Probably why I had problems staying focused, along with not enough caffeine @ 0545 hours PDT.
Otherwise, a valiant composition, Alan. Thanks for "puttin'-it-out-there" for us! |
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Location: Newington, CT | Thanks, C^2! Your observations are on the nose. I'm not very knowledgeable about mixing, and it shows.
A note about the MondoMando. I REALLY like it! I've listened to mandocellos (and their relative the bouzouki) and really liked their sound. But the smaller neck always prevented me from exploring them further. I have mondo hands. Your idea to use the wider guitar neck with the mandocello strings worked out wonderfully for me. I'm really glad you thought of it!
Also, despite the shallow bowl, the bass really rings. It's a brighter bass than most, but that's very appealing to my ear. After all, I don't think it's meant to replace a bass guitar or a stand-up bass in anyone's group. I guess the MondoMando really ends up being more of a bright baritone instrument.
You did a really nice job with the MondoMando! And its quirky, slightly 60's-ish appearance is a real plus! JMHO, you're really on to something. Possible mass market appeal? I like it a lot, if that's any indication.
Best,
Alan |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Yeah, the "Art Nouveau Meets CAT Scan" was MWoody's assessment of the relative aesthetics.
As for mass market, I'm afraid yours will be the only one. Not that I'm averse to attempting another mandolincello, just not a premeditated twin of this one. |
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Location: closely held secret | The first 12 seconds are interesting. At 13 you start playing 2 (or more) different songs and it's just noise. |
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Location: south east Michigan | awful.... just awful |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by Slipkid:
awful.... just awful Lol! Somehow I figured you might think so! Definitely not your cup o'tea! |
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Location: closely held secret | Alan, seriously... it's no one's cup of tea. It's a cacophony of runs and hammers that have no melodic structure whatsoever, and sounds like it's in multiple keys. Overdubbed multiple times, it is just unlistenable.
You obviously have the skill to play fast, but playing fast without structure is meaningless.
My suggestion would be to develop simpler melodies and subtly augment them with overdubs. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | On a positive note, I also thought the first 12 seconds was stellar. I really liked that a lot.
The rest, not so much. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Hey, hey. Give Alan credit for having a mind of his own and his own tastes. He LIKES what he hears. His ears pick up on his creations a different music than WE may hear. (on the other hand, he may have taken too many line drives to the head during his baseball playing days)
Keep going for it Alan, and one day you may put together something we can ALL appreciate. |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by dark bar:
Hey, hey. Give Alan credit for having a mind of his own and his own tastes. He LIKES what he hears. His ears pick up on his creations a different music than WE may hear. (on the other hand, he may have taken too many line drives to the head during his baseball playing days)
Keep going for it Alan, and one day you may put together something we can ALL appreciate. Lol! Thanks for the encouragement, db! Kinda my state of mind exactly! I DO like to listen to some (even most) of my "songs!" Maybe because I made 'em, I know what to listen for or something like that.
Absolutely NOT trying to be contrary here, but I have a couple dozen or so friends/correspondents/acquaintances who give me very favorable feedback on my "style," while at the OFC it tends to be a universal thumbs-down. (I know, I know...I'm teeing it up for one and all!)
I started out with good intentions to make something much more structured, and didn't get there. I'll keep at it. Db: I think you've given me a bit of a goal: try to make something that you, Waskel and SlipKid don't pan.
On the topic of line drives, in my youth, I DID take one in the mouth, necessitating a new, fake front tooth. My reactions were usually pretty good, and I was able to field my position pretty well. It just came back too fast.
Some years later (1977, actually) one more came back WAAAYYY faster than I pitched it to Lou Brock. It whistled through my legs giving me only the time to wince upward juuuuuust enough to permit my children to see the light of day. (Just taking an opportunity both to date myself, and to drop a name!) I had struck him out previous to that incident, which led me to believe that the strikeout might have been a charity K from the wily veteran, to encourage the (then) young kid. He assured me later that it was nothing of the sort. I just laid it in there and he jumped aaaaaalllll over it. It was during Spring Training, and I seem to remember the ball being lodged in the centerfield fence at Al Lang field in St. Pete., Fla. That would be a neat trick as it would have had to traverse the infield AND the outfield and still have enough juice to lodge in the then chain-link fence. The years CAN embellish a good story... |
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| Alan, I applaud you for putting it out there. Very few people on this and other guitar boards are willing to share what they do and subject themselves to criticism.
That said, I have to agree with the majority opinion. This (and most of your compositions) are far too busy for my taste. We've had this discussion before - the whole "sometimes, less is more" debate. You are obviously an enormously skilled technical player. Most everybody here would give their right nut (not their right arm, of course) to be able to play with the speed and clarity you have. You also have the ability to translate the rhythmic themes along with scale runs and arpeggiations you have in your head into a physical reality.
But you have a tendency to overdo it with the layers until it becomes the sonic equivalent of an autism sufferer being dropped into the middle of Times Square during a Gay Pride parade - too much stimulation, with no clear direction. If you could find your way to limiting your overlays, and sticking to melodic themes throughout a composition, your ideas would reach a wider audience.
Again, I give you great kudos for doing what you do, and admire your technical ability. But I don't think confusion is the emotion you want to elicit in listeners, even though that seems to be the predominant response. |
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Location: SoCal | I disagree. I think gay pride parades have a lot of direction.... |
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Location: closely held secret | You would know, being right up front... |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by AlanM:
Db: I think you've given me a bit of a goal: try to make something that you, Waskel and SlipKid don't pan.
...and others, of course. |
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Location: Flahdaw | We understand....you can't go and list EVERYONE. |
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Location: Newington, CT | Teed up THAT one too...I just GOTTA stop making it so easy for youse guys! |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by AlanM:
I started out with good intentions to make something much more structured, and didn't get there. Actually it started out heading straight there. Unfortunately it veered off course immediately after launch. |
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Location: Tennessee | My brain isn't wired to be able to track each of the layers in a way that you probably intend for people to hear them. When I record, I often use up to a dozen different tracks, instruments, and passages ... but I have to fit mine together so they make up a picture sort of like a jigsaw puzzle. But everyone's perception is different. I'm sure your friends and colleagues see your recording like a Thomas Kincaid painting ... but I can only see Jackson Pollack. I'm sure the reverse is true as well when it comes to my songs. Or maybe mine is more like Elvis on black velvet. But art is art and it appeals to people different ways. I'm just not that big of a Jackson Pollack fan. |
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Location: Flahdaw | True. When it first started I thought, "damn, Alan has finally settled down with his playing." Then those other 37 people joined in, playing a completely different song and ruined it. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by dark bar:
True. When it first started I thought, "damn, Alan has finally settled down with his playing." Then those other 37 people joined in, playing a completely different song and ruined it. BINGO!
Those were my thoughts exactly.
Alan....take the beginning and limit the song to absolutely no more than 2-3 overdubs and let us hear the results. I am guessing it will be much more palpable and pleasing to all. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Alan... I need to break up with you. It's come to the point to where this us just taking up to much of my life energy.
I've given it no small amount of thought this afternoon on why I'm such an ass when I reply to your offerings.
.
I had formulated one last jab with an extensive list of what I'd rather listen to. On that list was... Tiny Tim.. one of those wind up monkees with the clapping cymbals... and Yoko Ono.
But with your almost Charlie Sheen like ability to not "get it", I'll just let that slide.
.
I can only think that these negative responces are filling some kind of need for you tho I cannot imagine just what that need might be.
.
I'm glad you have found others out there in cyberspace who cotton to your offerings. I'd suggest you cultivate those relationships for all they are worth. They would be much more healthier that what you are getting here.
.
After peeling back the onion like layers I've come to the reason for my out of character rudeness.
Over the years I have received a mountain of good, heartfelt advise from friends here. These guys did not have to take the time & effort to offer this help, they just did. Because they did, I can easily see how much I've benefited from this advise.
It really pisses me off when time and time again, I see this valuable assistance shugged off with such a cavalier attitude. "LOL" ... "let eye-rolling start". In it's own way it's downright disrespectful.
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Alan,
Reference John Updike's comment on critical reviews. |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by G8r:
Alan, I applaud you for putting it out there. Very few people on this and other guitar boards are willing to share what they do and subject themselves to criticism.
That said, I have to agree with the majority opinion. This (and most of your compositions) are far too busy for my taste. We've had this discussion before - the whole "sometimes, less is more" debate. You are obviously an enormously skilled technical player. Most everybody here would give their right nut (not their right arm, of course) to be able to play with the speed and clarity you have. You also have the ability to translate the rhythmic themes along with scale runs and arpeggiations you have in your head into a physical reality.
But you have a tendency to overdo it with the layers until it becomes the sonic equivalent of an autism sufferer being dropped into the middle of Times Square during a Gay Pride parade - too much stimulation, with no clear direction. If you could find your way to limiting your overlays, and sticking to melodic themes throughout a composition, your ideas would reach a wider audience.
Again, I give you great kudos for doing what you do, and admire your technical ability. But I don't think confusion is the emotion you want to elicit in listeners, even though that seems to be the predominant response. Thanks for your very thoughtful analysis, G8r! Much appreciated! Especially the vivid imagery! It's not a big deal to post something that's not popular. I always get several nuggets that are, I think, really important. I know, I know...you guys are thinking, "Well, why don't you assimilate them, then, doggone it?!?!" Or even something a tad saltier than that.
I do assimilate them...I just don't really have the circumstances in place to act on them effectively. On a given weekend (the only REAL time I have to make these songs) I get maybe 15-30 minutes at a time to work on these little things, before I'm off gallivanting around bringing this kid to that thing, and that kid to the other thing. Just the nature of the single daddy life.
The nuggets I got from this one are, in no particular order: (1) the first 12 seconds went over well, and (2) that might be a theme on which to build a more coherent song. (3) Make the leads more integrated with the main theme(s) of the song. (4) Establish, bring out a theme, and work with it a lot more. (5) (a repeat) add structure.
I don't mind when the criticism comes through in a harsh way. It's not intended personally, and I'm nearly impossible to offend, so there's no real risk in putting my songs out for review and comment. It'd be difficult, I think, to find a more knowledgeable crowd to put them in front of.
(Just so everyone knows: I AM well aware that I've teed it up for someone [probably db] to reply that the harsher criticisms ARE meant personally...but I won't take that personally -- possibly due to the aforementioned line drives.) |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Alan... I need to break up with you. It's come to the point to where this us just taking up to much of my life energy.
I've given it no small amount of thought this afternoon on why I'm such an ass when I reply to your offerings.
.
I had formulated one last jab with an extensive list of what I'd rather listen to. On that list was... Tiny Tim.. one of those wind up monkees with the clapping cymbals... and Yoko Ono.
But with your almost Charlie Sheen like ability to not "get it", I'll just let that slide.
.
I can only think that these negative responces are filling some kind of need for you tho I cannot imagine just what that need might be.
.
I'm glad you have found others out there in cyberspace who cotton to your offerings. I'd suggest you cultivate those relationships for all they are worth. They would be much more healthier that what you are getting here.
.
After peeling back the onion like layers I've come to the reason for my out of character rudeness.
Over the years I have received a mountain of good, heartfelt advise from friends here. These guys did not have to take the time & effort to offer this help, they just did. Because they did, I can easily see how much I've benefited from this advise.
It really pisses me off when time and time again, I see this valuable assistance shugged off with such a cavalier attitude. "LOL" ... "let eye-rolling start". In it's own way it's downright disrespectful.
. Ummmmm...ok.
No disrespect intended. And no cavalier attitude taken.
Quite the contrary. |
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Seesquare's MondoMando in action (let the eye-rolling commence!)...
