|
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | I'm curious to see if this is just a local phenomenon, or if anybody else has noticed it. Very few, if any, music venues in my area (Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana) are actually paying performing musicians anymore - the few places that even have live music anymore (that's another topic altogether). You can put out a tip jar and hope for a generous crowd, but that's about it. A couple of places will put $25 in the jar to start it, and one place even puts in *gasp!* $50. Club owners realized that most musicians want to play so badly that they'd pay the CLUB OWNER to get a gig! And the concept is spreading.
For me, I've always played for free. Playing is fun; what they're paying me for is the time and trouble of setting up my gear and loading it in and out. Years ago, way back in the '70's, Cincinnati was a hotbed for music. People like Craig Fuller (Pure Prairie League) and Adrian Belew (David Bowie) went on to national prominence. You could actually make a decent living as a gigging musician. Even as recently as a few years ago, I could still make some decent auxiliary income from music. My last washer, dryer, refrigerator, and television were all paid for out of pocket with gig money.
But no more - and I seriously doubt anyone could support him/herself as a local musician.
Another side effect is that a lot of mediocre players are competing for the dwindling existing gigs - and are getting booked. Since they're not paying the musicians, club owners could care less if their acts sound like a cat whose tail had been stepped on.
As for me, I still play a lot. I don't really do it for money anymore; I just love to play. I've been around a long time and have a good following, and I can usually scrape up a decent night when I play solo. When I take the trio out for a gig, though, it just about covers gas money. We still play quite a number of private gigs a year (especially in the summer), which helps, but I'm afraid the halcyon days of yesteryear are gone.
Comments? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Isn't that just Busking, only indoors?
 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | I could be wrong, but I don't think there's much money in playing in OUR local bars, even if you're good. A regular gig in a decent restaurant may pay okay. Weddings, Bar mitzvahs, reunions, anniversary bashes, might earn you decent money. I think you gotta do it for the love of it, first and foremost. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2007
Posts: 302
Location: Nashville, TN | Personnally, I think this is a tragedy..I assumed that this only happened here in Nashville, where there are so many players that will work for tips, just to keep pickin..I didn't know this was a reality in other towns...I still make a living playing full time here in Nashville, but I still use a tip jar where allowed, just so I can get all I can..Even the road gigs don't pay enough anymore..you can make the same staying in town..depending on the artist..new guys coming to town will work for notta..God provides what I need..I'm not whining..just observing:-) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7232
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I was rather shocked and annoyed when I found that locally the restaurant and clubs here essentially pay the same (or less) that was paid in the 80's. $20 - $50 a person is not uncommon. Casino's apparently pay real money as well as private/corporate gigs. Also due to liquer laws, there is no "free beer" for a band, and many places only give an "employee discount" (10-15%) for food.
Now there are some factors... For whatever reasons, the ASCAP/BMI mafia is being aggressive on getting their fees. A liquor license for a place with music has a different set of requirements and higher fees than one without. Insurance goes up if you have music, and especially if you have music after 11pm. The liqueur tag also is affected by how late you are open. And finally there's staffing issues in general besides our 18 year old bussers and waitstaff need to be out of the premises at 11:00.
I am a bar manager at this time, and it pains me as a musician, producer and sound tech to recommend NOT having music for our venue. It's not that there isn't profit in it ... there's actually LOSS in it for the venue, leaving even less for musicians. I suspect, those that pay little, or pay nothing, at least in some cases, are really trying the best they can to do the right thing. Of course some are just greedy. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6995
Location: Jet City | It depends on where you play, but we'll usually take home between $60-100 per person, and I add a "ghost member" if we're using my equipment.
That said, we've also played parties for friends for nuthin.
And I take offense to the "mediocre players" comment Rick! We need some play time too. Honestly, I don't know that talent has ever been the main deciding factor of who's popular and who's not. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Damon67:
Honestly, I don't know that talent has ever been the main deciding factor of who's popular and who's not. There was a 10 year period down here in Florida where no matter HOW bad you were, if you could just play Jimmy Buffet songs, the crowds were happy and a player could stay booked. I saw a ton of crap players with steady gigs. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I consider myself fortunate that I have other types of jobs that allow me to play as an avocation rather than a vocation. I'm sure being a professional musician is much like other mediums of show business. For the majority of those not at the top of the food chain, it is a constant cycle of boom-bust-boom-bust. Get a regular gig and you can pretty much live off your expenses and bank your paycheck. Lose the gig and you can live off your banked pay until another gig comes along or you run out of money, then you have to do something else to pay the bills. Young people handle this better than old folks like me because they have fewer possessions and less baggage holding them back. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | There is a joke that goes like this;
A guy wins 2 million dollars in the lottery. When asked what he was going to do, he replied, "I'm going to become a professional musician until the money runs out." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Mr. O: I'm sure the economy has a lot to do with it. My sense is that there are some owners who try to do the right thing, but there are also those who are taking advantage of the situation. Case in point: when our trio plays at a (tips only) local winery, we always bring in a standing room only crowd. They have to set up extra tables and chairs. The servers run their tails off all night, and that place is rockin' busy until we quit playing. We have pretty decent paydays here, but I know - at least on that night - the club owner's not hurting.
Dan: Man, if it's happening in Nashville, things are really grim.
Damon: No offense intended - and the people I'm referring to are REALLY bad! No stage presence. Guitars horrendously out of tune, tuned to two or three different relative pitches - and out of tune individually from string to string. And the vocals -GAAAAHHH! You've gotta be better than that if you're pulling down $60 to $100 per person.
Bob: the Buffett syndrome lives on in Florida, at least in St. Augustine. We were just down there in May. There's a stretch of A1A in St. Augustine Beach that's wall to wall restaurants and bars, all with live music - and lotsa Buffett - some good, and some gut-wrenchingly bad. Several of the places start music at 5 pm and go until 2:30 the next morning, cycling 3 and sometimes 4(!) bands and/or performers in and out. There are a few punk bands, but it's mostly solo acoustic or acoustic rock bands, leaning heavily on classic rock staples, and a lot of Jimmy boy. St. George Street (foot traffic only) in the Old City is the same way, with many places having music outdoors in beautiful courtyards (BTW, I really LOVE St. Augustine!). I walked around the place salivating and cursing myself for not bringing a guitar. I could have made a killing! :( |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Mike: too funny, and yet too sad and too true. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | That was funny Mike.
And Damon is at least "Highly" mediocre...
As a Church Musician I'm on God's 401K payment plan - play/pray now, reward later... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 137
Location: Massachusetts | I can remember when only Union Musicians could play at certain clubs and restaurants. Is this going to be the in the future with all of these clubs not paying proper wages to musicians?
The pendulum always swings in the opposite direction sooner or later. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | In Florida you just have to do Buffet tunes, it's the law.
The thing I've noticed in CT is that there is much more participation in the open mics. Here you can play somewhere every night if you want to, and many times there's a choice of where you can go. A couple of years ago there would be several people at them , now there's 20+ each night. These are becoming much more popular. Now the Medeofukinochre are out in force but there are many people who after a year or two are getting their chops together.
But the bottom line is that I think it's true, there is less work for the "real" musicians. At least less that they can get paid for. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Plus for a lot a places the bad economy, dui enforcement (not that that is a bad thing) and smoking bans all hurt business for venues that used to offer paying gigs. A lot of cost cutting going on. Karaoke and DJ's as cheaper options. Now they want you to fill the room not just keeping the people who come in there. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 137
Location: Massachusetts | PEZ, I hear that a lot from bar managers about bringing in 100 people or more, but what about the bar having a following? I can remember being in a house band that played multiple nights for weeks at a time, now you have to set up and tear down your equipment for a one night stand. Not very cost effective for the band, who have to set up thousands of dollars worth of equipment to play one night. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I remember when Pay to play came around in the early 80's that was the start and it only got worse.
there are too many musicians that suck that will play for free and only if they REALLY suck will the owners of the places ask them to stop and leave. as a result good people find it harder and harder to get paid.
so far this year I did 5 charity events. at least I do not have to suffer the indignity of not getting paid |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Playing in a church praise band has its advantages. Steady work, very appreciative audience, committed musicians, contemporary and uptempo music, a place to store your big gear pieces during the week, no drunks, no late night work, and opportunity to pick up private paid gigs from the residual exposure. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | It goes around and around.
There were three or four weeks :-) in the 70's when I made a good living as a stand-up folksinger-comic in bars and lounges. I happened to quit to go work in the family grocery business 3 months before disco seemed to 'hit' B C and Alberta. All the places I used to play switched to sound systems and mirror balls and all the solo/duo acts I knew were out of work.
There does seem to be a strong indie circuit, but you've got to hustle and cover lots of ground. Filling in between regular bookings with house concerts.
The 'old' (60's - 80's) days of putting a decent local band together and making some good side money is pretty much gone. Perhaps for good. Traditionally musicians were traveling troubadours, not small businessmen. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas | Little Rock is very similar to what I'm hearing from you guys. 60-100 bucks per man for a gig. Fortunately there are several live venues for us to rotate around in, whether individual acoustic, acoustic trio or full band. I have yet to see one here where you are not paid by the business. Although I have a day job, I like making a few bucks each weekend and being paid for doing something I would do for free. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2009
| I don't play gigs much anymore, at least not of the paying variety. If they're paying you they feel they own you and I'm no longer in the mood to be owned, however briefly, by the likes of some of these club owners. Fact its, given the travel and setup time etc, you're better off taking a 7-11 job.
I'm always happy to play at a neighbor's cook out or block party, or whatever - always for free. Charitable event? Call me. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Well, if you're doing $60 to $100 per, that's pretty darned good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | For a guy and an acoustic guitar, maybe an amp if there's no p.a. or if you want to run your amp through the p.a., there ain't THAT much setup.
Bands....that's different. I don't know HOW a band can make any money these days. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | They don't! :D Yeah, I can set up solo in 10 minutes, 15 tops. Not that bad. I just like to cover my expenses, maybe have a little pocket money. They usually give me a free meal and all the iced tea I can drink, so I'm a happy camper. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Eaton, Indiana | Been there and am doing that. Street corners in Nashville aren't too bad on a good night.
scott lamperd b c (before computers) |
|
| |
OT: "TIPS-ONLY" GIGS?
