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Location: Atlanta GA | The all carbon fiber guitar may be coming back in a hurry.
Great read for all you Gibson skeptics
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471... |
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Location: Flahdaw | That's why I stopped using my Florida Panther fur lined guitar case when traveling. |
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Posts: 3651
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | So, no more overseas shipments for this lad. |
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Location: SoCal | Makes me wonder where the fiberglass on my guitars was harvested? |
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | I think the American portion of Gibson should shut down and fire all the employees. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | It's going to hurt my business. I sell a lot of guitars to Canadians. |
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Location: Denmark | Isn't ebony - as in fretboards - a threatened species? |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | A reasonable person might conclude that there are more important and consequential laws to enforce. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | posted by CanterburyStrings:
It's going to hurt my business. I sell a lot of guitars to Canadians. Ah... But you only have to worry about it when bringing it IN to the USA. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I'm kinda surprised we aren't giving all the illegal imported wood free healthcare and food stamps.... |
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Location: Nashville TN. | only raiding one company ......hum |
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Location: SE Michigan | I have mixed emotions about this. On the one hand I certainly agree that there are more pressing problems for law enforcement to address. I also love fine wood guitars.
On the other hand, if they do not enforce environmental laws, the laws are pointless and profiteers will rape our planet. Also I believe (and have sampled) many fine alternatives to endangered tropical hardwoods in guitars. I think as guitar players we need to open out minds a bit and give such alternatives a try. My current favorite guitars are a mostly-maple Tak and a mostly synthetic Adamas. They both do however have ebony fretboards and bridges (I love stark black ebony!)
One of these days I would like to get one of the Martin Sustainable Cherry models. I have heard of some pretty nice guitars made using Walnut as well.
In a way it's like crazy Chinese people creating a market for tiger testicles. It's really crazy and stupid to kill tigers for this purpose (ever hear of viagra?). Ultimately it is the consumer that drives the market. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by PEZ:
only raiding one company ......hum My guess; it was Beal 'dropped a dime' on them.... |
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Location: Ohio | The feds should stop worrying about illegal WOOD aliens, and sork more on the HUMAN illegal aliesn |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Wasn't me, there are many, many people ahead of me in that line. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Brian T:
On the other hand, if they do not enforce environmental laws, the laws are pointless and profiteers will rape our planet. Except that it didn\'t have anything to do with US environmental laws . |
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Posts: 24
Location: Minneapolis | Yes, interesting read. Thanks for posting. I wonder if there are other associations such as the International Pernambuco Preservation Initiative? http://www.ipci-usa.org/
(which I have contributed to in the past)
Other exotic woods need protection too and until we get a handle on our consumption, I feel that environmental laws - however draconian - are our only recourse. Where there is a market, you will find unscrupulous harvesters and builders... Do we need to drive these plants and animals to extinction to solve the problem?
Yes, there are many other "more important" issues to tackle. But that does not mean we should set one aside and concentrate on another. Learn about the endangered materials. Avoid buying new instruments that use threatened woods, and look for entities such as the IPCI to support. Just sayin'... |
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Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | So now the management of Gibson is crying that they were raided because they support the Republican party and CF Martin was not raided because they lean Democratic. Great red-herring.
Stop and consider the recent reputations of these two companies.
In recent years Gibson is noted for it's "Jack-Boot" marketing techniques. Up in Lansing Michigan is a wonderful music store with a great national reputation called Elderly Instruments. Gibson tried to force Elderly to put it's guitars in the first pages of it's catalog, and to reserve prime floor space for Gibson guitars, while pushing competing guitars into the background. The owners of Elderly Instruments told Gibson to go pound sand and they currently do not carry the Gibson line. I know a few people in the musical instrument business and the word is that Gibson rules over it's dealers in a style reminiscent of how Walmart rules it's suppliers. Bravo for Elderly.
Contrast Gibson with CF Martin guitars. Martin has remained faithful to it's environmental commitments. Martin voluntarily submits to annual audits by the Forest Stewardship Council and maintains FSC certification. Martin also has been a leader in producing guitars using sustainable woods and alternate materials. From what I have observed Gibson's focus seems to be market domination. this may explain why Gibson was raided and not CF Martin. I say give this story a few weeks to let the facts develop and then lets see exactly what was uncovered at Gibson. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Gibson may be a bunch of jerks, but it sounds like they are selling the exact same wood as Martin. Sure makes me curious.... |
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Location: SE Michigan | Gibson may be a bunch of jerks, but it sounds like they are selling the exact same wood as Martin. Sure makes me curious....
Where there is smoke there is usually fire. There are a lot of other guitar makers out there that have not been raided. |
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| Not defending or condemning any guitar maker here, but this is exactly what's wrong with any discourse today. The original article in the OP is from the Wall Street Journal, not exactly a bastion of liberal propaganda, and states the issue is over certain woods banned by CITES such as MADAGASCAR ebony and rosewood. The second "article" is not from any accredited news organization, but rather one single person's blog where he basically is acting as a shill for Gibson by re-posting Gibson's own press release in their defense, wherein they try to divert attention by talking about entirely different wood sources. If you want to believe everything you see on the Internet, I have a bank account in Nigeria I'm holding for a deposed prince I'd like to talk to you about. |
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Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | Here is a link to the actual federal warrant:
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wtvf/PDF/GibsonAffidavit.pdf
See paragraph 21, cites fraudulent documentation of the wood in question. I agree with G8r, you can find most any point of view that you desire on the internet. Give this a little time and see what the real facts are. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Very good Brian! |
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Location: Texas | Just one more little tidbit.
Fender, Taylor, Rickenbacker, Danelectro, Carvin, MusicMan, ESP, Spector, Martin, Guild, Ovation, Hamer, Alvarez, B.C. Rich, Washburn and Heritage all share a common trait not shared by Gibson. My understanding is that all those companies operate out of Union states.
Tennessee is a right-to-work state.
Name another instrument company, targeted by the DOJ under the Lacey Act. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Maybe it's just 'cos I don't like Martin Guitars that I WANT to believe there is something underhanded going on. 'Course I don't like Gibson either. |
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Bad Day for Gibson
