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Posts: 187
Location: Florence,SC | Saw this beautiful Viper on ebay. But I have a concern about it being all original and wanted some input from you guys:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ovation-Viper-Flame-Maple-Neck-Elec...
In a post back in September of 2005, cwk2 stated "... This (Viper) is one of the early ones, you can always tell them by the switch up in the tele position. Later ones had it down between the knobs. " The one on ebay has the switch in the Tele position, but it has a high serial number (last one I saw in this configuration was barely in the 7000's) and this one has a wide headstock.
Opinions? |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hmm.. this one may take a little investigating..
The jack is on the pick guard, so it's not real early, but it has the early bridge. However, the pickguard doesn't have Viper engraved so if it is all original, it's somewhere between losing the engraving on the pickguard to the begining of the use of the newer bridge. Of course if that's not the original pickguard, all bets are off including the placement of the controls.
The volume knob is not original, but that is somewhat minor in the scheme of things.
Finally, and most importantly, there is no way to tell from the picture if that is the original neck plate, hence is that even the serial number for the guitar.
In any case... it's a great price if it doesn't get bid up. |
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Location: Florence,SC | Didn't all of the production line Vipers have the jack in the pickguard? I thought only the very early Breadwinners had a different location. |
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Location: NW Washington State | I've never seen (a picture of) one with the jack on the side. Maybe Mr. O has? It would have helped- there are a lot of cracked Viper pickguards.
Did any Vipers come with the earlier bridge- the brass/plastic one without screws through the back to hold the saddles down? The bridge on this one is my favorite.
The pickup switch looks original. A couple of pickguard screws are missing.
I'd like to see some clear pictures of the frets.
Do you want a collector's item or a nice guitar to play?
-Steve W. |
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Location: Connersville, Indiana | My blondish Viper does not have the plastic cover on the bridge and the Viper has been long worn off the pick guard, but it has the selector switch between the knobs. sn E 18077 Love mine, great price. |
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Location: NW Washington State | My maple Viper has "Viper" on the pickguard and the switch between/beside the knobs. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | The first run of Vipers had the jack on the end of the body. My original one that I owned for many years did and the body MWoody just fixed up for me did as well.
numbfingers.. not sure what you mean "Did any Vipers come with the earlier bridge- the brass/plastic one without screws through the back to hold the saddles down? " The "early" bridge IS the brass with plastic. The later ones were the Schaller ones withOUT the screw in the back.
To my recollections (without looking it up) there were at least 3 versions of the brass-with-black-plastic bridge. The most significant different being if they had locking screws on the underneath of the saddles or not. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ok.. this is interesting (at least to me)...
I've done a quick scouring of images of Vipers on the web, and all the ones I have pictures of that I have owned, and can't find a single one with an end jack. I have also looked through my print ads and even my schematic assembly guides of the early ones.
But... I own one now, and used to own one, and have sold a few bodies that were cut for an end jack. So I guess there were very few made that way, but I didn't realize how few until just now. |
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Location: NW Washington State | Miles-
I think we're talking about the same bridges in different terms. Did any Vipers with the "early" bridge come without the locking screws underneath for the saddles?
Anyway, the eBay guitar in question looks nice, but I'd still like to see the frets.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | If any one is serious PM me...I like about 5 miles from the store |
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Location: Colorado | Make that live.... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I was watching that, and hoping that it would stay cheap.
Well... That ain't happenin' :rolleyes: |
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Location: NW Washington State | Gee, Arthur, don't you just hate it when someone posts something you were watching? Especially if it's one of those "PSAs". You've gotta hate that! :) |
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Location: Florence,SC | Sorry about that Arthur ... didn't mean to spoil it. I was interested in it mainly because of the beautiful wood. If it proved to be a custom job, I'm not interested.
I have a Viper and a Viper III, both with the Type 3 bridge (brass saddles w/set screws). Never seen a Viper with a Type 1 (nylon saddles) bridge ... often it's hard to tell if an Ovation has a Type 2 (brass saddles, no set screws) or a Type 3 just from pictures (unless it's a close-up). |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by kitmann:
the Viper has been long worn off the pick guard, I thought that "viper" was engraved in the pickguard?
How could it be worn off??? |
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Location: NW Washington State | Posting interesting items comes and goes around.
So now we have bridge type numbers?
I don't think I've seen a Viper with Type 2, but maybe Mr. O has.
I suppose Type 4 would be the chrome heavy metal Schaller bridge, and Type 5 would be a gold Schaller.
Then there would be the "transitional" bodies with the type 4 bridge and the hole in the back of the body plugged. Gets complicated. :)
I don't think the engraved "Viper" would wear off. There were lots of pickguards without it.
They did make Vipers with this ash(?) body and maple(?) neck scheme.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 187
Location: Florence,SC | I use different bridge "type" numbers as a shorthand to help me keep track. It's faster than trying to write out each bridge configuration. Didn't mean to confuse anyone. |
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Location: Connersville, Indiana | I would have to check with Iffy, the pick guard may have been replaced. ???? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Oh yeah... forgot about the nylon saddle ones... or err "type one" we'll call them. To my knowledge they only appeared on Breadwinners and some Deacons.
This "type" stuff actually works.. Most all of mine are actually the "type 2" e.g. without the screw on the back of the saddles. Actually it wasn't until about 8 years ago that I had seen what are being referred to as type 3 bridges. |
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Location: Connersville, Indiana |  |
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Location: Florence,SC | Beautiful guitars kitmann.
Mr. Ovation, glad the "Type" system appealed to you. It's helped me tremendously in my note-taking. |
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Location: Texas | Kit, it seems pretty unlikely that the "Viper" wore off, (unless you strum so violently, yet precisely, that you evenly wore off about a 1/16" layer of the pick guard.) ;) The "Viper" was etched in. Unless you can actually see or feel some trace of the engraving that's not visible in your photos, it probably was never there. Also, it looks like you have the later (type 4?) bridge on that one (as opposed to the earlier one on your Preacher.) I think that the engraved pickguards were already gone by the time they started using that bridge, but I'll defer to those with better memories than mine to verify that…
Regardless, you still have a sweet trio of 'lectric O's… |
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Location: Tennessee | The later run Vipers did not gave an engraved pickguard. Especially by the time the chrome Schaller bridges were in play. Kitt's is a late run so it never had the engraved Viper name. |
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August 2011
Posts: 187
Location: Florence,SC | Miles, if you find a picture of a Viper with the jack on the edge, I would like to see it. Come to think about it, maybe I don't ... it means there'd be another guitar out there for me to look for! Could they have been special order,custom made or prototypes? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | The only photo I have at the moment is this one from my guitar that MWoody worked on.
The body was an original viper that had a destroyed pick guard and broken neck so I salvaged it for this project, specifically a new top and chambered.
However, you can clearly see the pre-drilled hole for the end jack.
It really does look like very few of these were made this way. It was my understanding that they originally did them this way, just like the original breadwinners. Then for cost cutting and ease of assembly moved the jack to the pick guard. This makes sense to me. There was likely a huge savings on the breadwinner because now the jack would be part of the circuit board and just pop in with no additional help. On the Viper, no having to wire thread, attach and wire the jack separately certainly seems like a cost/labor savings... However, as easy as it was to break the pick guard by not using a 90 degree cable end at least to relieve the strain... one would have thought they would have gone back to the end jack..
Anyway... I'll keep searching here and there for more photos.
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Nice Viper on ebay
