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Posts: 122
Location: toneville USA | just comparing how a string sounds on a pinned vs. pinless bridge...the bass strings have no crisp, new-string sound with the pinless (ebony).
it's like, when you feed them through, the windings get "filled up" or dirty with wood from the tiny holes... i tried elixers, thinking the coating would help keep the strings "clean", and even hit them with a alcohol wipe after they were on. i noticed a tiny improvement.
i usually use daddario ej16's.
my G string usually sounds new, crisp, bright as you'd expect...i've tried feeding them through slowly and carefully, this way and that.
any suggestions? anyone experience the same thing? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Hal,
Give your new guitar about a month of good playing. Then check back and tell if there is a difference. We have discussed this phenomena at some length. No good answers, just theory. |
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| Unless you are using your strings as a wire saw it shouldn't have an effect. Scratch that, even if you are using your strings as a wire saw they should work fine.
I'd check the break angle over the saddle. If you have lowered the action at the saddle you've lowered the energy transfer to the top.
The first thing I'd check is the saddle itself. Is it really sitting flush against the bridge? |
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Posts: 122
Location: toneville USA | Originally posted by MWoody:
Hal,
Give your new guitar about a month of good playing. Then check back and tell if there is a difference. We have discussed this phenomena at some length. No good answers, just theory. thanks...but i want answers, damnit!! ;)
so others have experinced this, and it improves ? how many others besides woodrow? |
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Location: toneville USA | Originally posted by GN-Nick:
Unless you are using your strings as a wire saw it shouldn't have an effect. Scratch that, even if you are using your strings as a wire saw they should work fine.
I'd check the break angle over the saddle. If you have lowered the action at the saddle you've lowered the energy transfer to the top.
The first thing I'd check is the saddle itself. Is it really sitting flush against the bridge? no matter what the saddle/bridge relationship is, the string should still have a crisp sound. not, loud or deep or powerful, but crisp. the angle is fine though. |
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Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Hal Jordan:
thanks...but i want answers, damnit!! The answer is that the ovation pinless bridge clogs the windings of your strings with wood debris that kills the sound. This is a well know issue any why a lot of people prefer Martin type pinned bridges.
To avoid this problem, what most of us due is to use a small piece of plastic protective tubing while re-strining. Get the hard kind. OD 2mm, ID 1mm. Cut about a 2 inch piece of the tubing. When stringing, slip the tube into the bridge hole from the saddle side. Push it in all the way until it stops. Then feed the string through the normal end. Once the string is completely pulled through against the stop, slide the tube off the string. Bingo, you have threaded through the bridge and not gotten it all gunked up with wood dust. You should notice an improved sound from the wound strings. Note - you don't have to go through this procedure for the plain strings.
Dave |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I've never seen a difference between pin and pinless bridges in the sound of guitars. Taks and Lowdens that have pinless bridges sound much like their counterparts. My 2 cents although not the definitive answer you're probably looking for. |
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Location: Flushing, MI | This is the first that I've heard about this phenomena. I've never encountered that problem on my MIK Celebrity, after about three years. Hmmm.... Regardless, I'm still a fan of this kind of bridge. I HATE dealing with bridge pins! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "Jedi, you will never be." "Impatient he is!"
Yoda
Dave,
Does Al carry any more of that tubing or did the Trawler get the last batch? |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I'll let you know when my Lowden gets here if the bass sounds mushy...should be here on Friday.
Dave,
Do you get a bulk rate on you tubing? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by MWoody:
Does Al carry any more of that tubing or did the Trawler get the last batch? I don't think the actual Ovation brand tubing with the logos on it is available any more. I had to resort to standard hobby store stuff. It's about the size of that tube that goes on the WD-40 can. You buy it by the foot. I think I had about 6 feet of it, but as you know there was quite a mad rush from OFC members last year when this all became known and I think I gave it all away except what I need myself for restringing.
Dave |
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Location: Central Florida | Interesting... I've been around Ovations virtually all my life and I've never had this problem, or even heard of others having it until now. Not saying it isn't a legitimate problem, just funny that in all these years I've never encountered it, given all the Ovations I've had the pleasure to play and own. I don't even recall the previous thread(s) about this... I must've really been in a fog! :confused:
What I have noticed on several Ovations is a dullness, or lack of crispness, on the plain strings, paticularly when played open. I assumed that was due to the plastic nut and saddle material becoming worn over time and choaking the strings.
Jeff |
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Location: NJ | Wow, Dave! You're bringing back Memories!
I haven't seen the tubing branded with the logo in YEARS!!
After I lost mine, I had a friend whip me up a batch of replacements. He works for a company making custom lab equipment. He cut me a bunch of lengths of small diameter Pyrex tubing, then ground and flamed-polished the ends. These things are tits!!! The strings S-L-I-D-E right IN and don't get hung up on the edges! I'll have to look around and see if might have some extras layin' around for those who might be interested in one. They really work great! . . . |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I could never get this technique to work well with the 12-string bridges, where 2 holes on the butt end (shut up Cliff) feed one hole on the saddle end. Someone said there was a Tech Bulletin from the service department about this (15 years ago). Anyone have a copy by any chance? Dave |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Is it Schedule 40 or Schedule 60 pvc tubing?
The custom pyrex sounds great! I've got a glass blower friend in south Jersey, from Wheaton Glass, might be able to hand blow them from leaded crystal ...maybe just for use on Adamas models. |
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Location: NJ | Nunnwell up in CT (makes the Matt Smith slides) does some nice ones . . . |
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Location: Central Florida | So... All these years I've been stringing my Ovations incorrectly? ...The strings are supposed to be fed in through tubing? ... And Ovation used to supply said tubing? :eek:
How did I miss this?
Am I causing potential damage to my bridges by not using the tubing?
Jeff |
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Location: NJ | I usually tell people (if they're NOT using a tube) is feed the string through SLOWLY and CAREFULLY with two hands (one on either side) about an inch or two at a time being careful that the string doesn't "scrape" the interior walls of the cavity in the saddle . . .
The tube really DOES make it go quicker, tho . . . . |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Jeff, I don't think you are damaging your bridge. And I would not say the tubing technique is "standard" by any means. I think what Ovation did with the tubing was to offer an "official solution" to those who complained or cared. Basically a work-around for the A-type personalities. I think the company does a great job and has a good history in "quieting the complainers". Dave |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | And it's not a bad idea to place a card (old hotel room key works great for me or a playing card) behind the bridge to protect the top.
Seems like the right length of tube would eliminate the need to do this.
Another tip, is to bend back (fold it double) on the headstock end of the string and feed the bend through the hole this helps the string go through without getting hung up on the saddle end of the hole...again the tube would eliminate the need to do this... |
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Location: closely held secret | Jeff, I don't understand how the tubing would help protect the top behind the bridge. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | If it is cut long enough that it sticks out behind the bridge it would "flatten out" the angle at which the string draws tight into the bridge. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Never had a problem like that. Gee, now I gotta look for more problems. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | This would be a great time to have an "Official" Kaman answer on this one.
Dave,
I have been trying to remake the slothead guide but I think the inconel is too soft where the roller plate comes in contact. Wish I had an original Ovation Guide to copy. Sam won't let his out of his sight and Miles isn't answering his email. :( |
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Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
If it is cut long enough that it sticks out behind the bridge I have not been able to find tubing thin enough to stick out the back of the bridge. The stuff I use (which is my last bit of Ovation logo tubing) fits int the front side of the string hole (the saddle side) but stops up against the back edge of the hole. Btw an added benefit of using the tubing is that the string slides righ tup over the saddle (in the tube) as you thread it through. You don't have to poke down into the hole and finagle the end of the string up over the saddle which usually ends up with some blood involved, especially on that damn B string.
PS Woody - email Cliff, he has a source for harder inconel. |
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does the pinless bridge suck the snap from strings?
