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Looking to 'modify' my viper

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jchahn
Posted 2006-05-20 1:51 AM (#254276)
Subject: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 10

Location: Amarillo, Texas
I'm 21 years old now, and have several guitars. The first electric I got was a 1977 Ovation Viper, natural finish, when I was about 10 years old. I had never seen another one like it, and I couldn't get much information on it years ago when I first looked. I'm glad I finally found a site with others who are knowledgable about the Ovation solid bodies. I still have it and recently pulled it out of the closet and started fiddling with it again. I've started toying with the idea of modifying it to make it feel the way I like and have a bit of a more modern sound.

I don't particularly like the idea of doing any 'permanent' mods. In other words, I don't want to do anything that can't be undone. I want to have the option to return it to factory specs if I want.

Here's what I'd like to do:

1) one of the tuners is broken (the little plastic pieces that the screws go into broke off of the main piece) I need to locate replacement tuners that have the same screw configuration, prefereably chrome schallers. I don't want to go plastic again unless I have no other option, and I don't want to drill new holes.

2) I'd like to have new pickups put in. I'd like to find some mini-humbuckers that will fit in w/out having to cut the guitar that will have a more modern rock sound.

3) If there is someone who makes an aftermarket pick guard, I'd like to have a 5 way switch installed with the new pickups so that way I can have a series setting that will give me a single coil sound, or even push-pull pots.

4) This guitar will need fret work at some point, and I'm thinking that while they are add it I may have them pull of the maple fretboard and put on a rosewood or ebony fretboard. If I can find someone with an original Ovation neck for this guitar that came stock with the rosewood or ebony fingerboards (I've seen some websites that say they came with either maple or rosewood, I've seen other sites that say they came with either maple or ebony, so I'm not sure which it would be.) Eithe way, I like rosewood and ebony fretboards much more than maple, so I'd like to have that switched out as well, preferably with a simple swapout with another factory ovation neck.

5) Mine has the older Ovation bridge. I'd like to get the chrome schaller bridge that they started putting on them later and retro fit it, unless it requires alot of drilling and cutting.

Anyway, these are all just some ideas that I'm toying with, and I was wondering if any of you Ovation solid body experts might know where I can get some of these parts, what tuners and pick-ups you'd recommend, where I can get a replacement neck and or fretboard, where I can get a replacement pickguard (in case I need to make mods to the pick guard for electronics modifications), etc.

The bottom line is, I want to mod this guitar into something that is more modern and generally nicer, but I want to have the option to return it to original if need be. Right now they are selling for $300 a pop, but in the future, when all the "junk yard" ones have all been used up for parts, the value may start to go up. I want the option, just in case.

Thanks in advance for the help everyone. :cool:

John
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OldLiverJones
Posted 2006-05-20 2:51 AM (#254277 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 803

Location: Avondale, AZ
Wise idea not to change it to the point it can't be changed back. I would not do any drilling or changing the pick guard. I think you can get some of the parts you need on the SELL/TRADE part of this board.
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Tupperware
Posted 2006-05-20 8:18 AM (#254278 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903

Location: Phoenix AZ
You can easily put new chrome tuners on it. Dave
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Knuckledragger
Posted 2006-05-20 9:24 AM (#254279 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 31

Location: Clinton ,Ct
Look why change it? If your looking for a new guitar sound then go get a new guitar.leave the Viper alone keep it as stock as possible they sound great .If your looking for that Les Paul hummbucker sound Check out the Hammer collection or get a LesPaul
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edensharvest
Posted 2006-05-20 10:21 AM (#254280 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634

Location: Chehalis, Washington
A lot of the stuff you mentioned MWoody can do, and has done on several others. When he gets back from the factory tour, email him and see.
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holLoWskull
Posted 2006-05-20 10:55 AM (#254281 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 22

Location: Hagaman, NY
Another option could be to keep the guitar you currently have totally stock and pick up another one for $300 with the full intention of doing any mod your heart desires to it. Maybe I view guitars a little differently than some, but although they can be great "works of art", ultimately they are built to be played and if your intented mods have been well thought out and make the guitar more enjoyable for you to play, I say do it...resale value be damned :)
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jchahn
Posted 2006-05-20 11:06 AM (#254282 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 10

Location: Amarillo, Texas
Thanks for the replies everyone. So when will mwoody be back from the factory tour, anyone know?

Also, even if I decide not to do any 'mods' to it, I'm still going to NEED to put new tuners on it.
Originally posted by Tupperware:
You can easily put new chrome tuners on it. Dave
So in other words I shouldn't have too much trouble finding chrome tuners that have the same hole pattern? If that's the case, does anyone have any model #s they could give me so that I'll know what tuners I need to get? I may have to mail order them so I'd like to know before hand if they are the right ones. I may just remove one of the tuners from the guitar and take it to a local shop and see if they have tuners like it. I don't really know what else to do, unless someone like mwoody may be able to hook me up.
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OldLiverJones
Posted 2006-05-20 12:19 PM (#254283 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 803

Location: Avondale, AZ
I say do it...resale value be damned
This is why you are still a junior member.
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holLoWskull
Posted 2006-05-20 6:43 PM (#254284 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 22

Location: Hagaman, NY
Originally posted by OldLiverJones:
I say do it...resale value be damned
This is why you are still a junior member.
Nah, junior member has nothing to do with it. :) It wouldn't matter if I've been a member of the OFC for numerous years and posted a thousand times...I'd still say that if jchahn wants to modify this guitar to make it more enjoyable to play, do it. The point I was trying to make about resale value was that if it was a big concern, perhaps picking up another Viper to modify and keeping the current one stock (or with reversible mods) would be another option, otherwise go ahead and personalize the guitar without dwelling too much on how much the value may decrease. Case in point, I got a chance to see Alpep's modified Viper at the 06'OFC Open House and thought how absoulutely cool that guitar was with the EMG pickups and the non-stock neck. Again, no one's opinion is right or wrong here, some people would rather leave things as they were built, others want to try to improve on an already good design. I just personally would rather have a guitar that suits my playing needs perfectly and if taking a guitar that has an inherently good design and modifying it to make it perfect for me is what is called for, I'll do it. As I said before, to me a guitar is a 'tool-of-the-trade' meant to be played first, a work of art to be admired second, and a financial investment to be bought and sold last...just a lowly junior member sharing his thoughts here on the OFC. ;)
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Knuckledragger
Posted 2006-05-20 7:35 PM (#254285 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 31

Location: Clinton ,Ct
I will share my thoughts.little as they may be .It seem that most mods are done not because they have to but because they want it to sound like another Guitar.If this is the case get another guitar.Now if you have to then go ahead and mod the crap out of it .I have done it to some of my Guitars because I had to and they sound great.Spliting coils one of my favs
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holLoWskull
Posted 2006-05-21 11:52 AM (#254286 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 22

Location: Hagaman, NY
Originally posted by Knuckledragger:
It seem that most mods are done not because they have to but because they want it to sound like another Guitar.If this is the case get another guitar.
Sometimes that's the case, but just as an example...I love the way my Ovation 6751 12-string sounds, but I feel the action is higher than I'd like it to be. I'll have the luthier I use shave the saddle down as I had him do on my Takamine EAN-40C and rework the nut a tad and the guitar will be perfect FOR ME (even if this lowers the resale value in some people's eyes). I could buy a Taylor if I wanted low action out of the box, but I really prefer the way the Ovation sounds, so it's not about trying to get my Ovation to sound like another guitar as it is trying to make a guitar I already like more comfortable for me to play. Some people just like to personalize and/or 'hot rod' things be it guitars, amps, cars, whatever just because they think it's cool to do or in hopes of making something they already like even better. I guess it boils down to if you own it, you have the option of leaving it 100% original or making it different to suit your personal tastes, whichever floats your boat. :D
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Knuckledragger
Posted 2006-05-21 12:13 PM (#254287 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 31

Location: Clinton ,Ct
I agree change action ,change string gauge,even bridge saddles, tunners.But people seem to change pup's to get a different sound like another Guitar they played or heard . the Viper has it's own sound so leave it .If you looking for a heavyer sound Check out some other Guitars .Thats half the fun.But be carefull it is habbit forming.Most here will agree. 5 and counting
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OldLiverJones
Posted 2006-05-21 1:46 PM (#254288 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 803

Location: Avondale, AZ
I found this board when I was bidding on a Viper 111. Someone from here wrote and said the middle pick up had been change. That was enough for me not to buy it. You see so many Ovation solids altered past repair. It seems never for the better. Sorry Woody.
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MWoody
Posted 2006-05-21 8:24 PM (#254289 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996

Location: Upper Left USA
To mod or not to mod, that is the question!

Do you want to play it but it's broke? Never mod a running original.
Always repair the broken and cast aside!

Easy fixes.
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brainslag
Posted 2006-05-22 10:17 AM (#254290 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1138

Location: CT
Nobody asked for my 2 cents, so I'm going to give it anyway.

If you don't want to butcher it, don't touch it. Now you want a modern sound, but down the road you may want something more vintage, and you won't have to change it back.

'Back in the day' if you wanted a decent guitar, you bought Gibson or Fender. If you couldn't afford it, you bought something from Sears or Woolworths that played and sounded like crap. Guitar technology today has made it easy for big comanys to spit out thousands of guitars that play and sound amazing for the price. Buy something inexpensive from Ibanez or Yamaha or a dozen other companies with a couple of hot humbuckers, and leave the Viper alone. You might get a whole guitar for less than the mods, and it's no effort, vs. finding parts that might or might not fit without drilling or routing.

Also back in the day, you plugged your guitar into your amp. Period. That was your sound. Today, your guitar goes into half a dozen (at least) signal processors before it gets into the speakers, then the sound guy eq's it to the house. You might be able to get the sound your looking for out of the Viper and one of hundreds of stomp boxes or multi-fx/amp modeling pedals. Bring it to a music store and try some out. Just my opinion.
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jchahn
Posted 2006-05-22 10:50 AM (#254291 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 10

Location: Amarillo, Texas
Of all the mods I considered, new pickups was the one that I wanted the least. I'm definitely getting new tuners, and I'm going to look until I can locate some that will fit in the stock holes. I think I may be able to order some from schaller.

Also, there's a guy on Ebay parting out a viper that had a broken neck. I snagged the schaller bridge that came off of that one (mine has the older ovation bridge.) When the new one comes in I'm going to retrofit it onto mine if it's not going to be too big of a chore. I don't expect it to being that it's not a tremolo.

Putting new tuners and an OEM bridge on it aren't too radical of mods, to me. I would be fine with just doing that. If, by chance or luck, I happen to run across a Viper super cheap (possibly damaged) that has a good neck with a natural color headstock and an ebony fretboard, I'll swap out my maple/maple neck for a maple/ebony neck (and keep the maple/maple neck in case I want to go back).

I don't think putting on new tuners (one of which is broken), swapping out the bridge with another ovation OEM bridge, and possible swapping out the neck with an OEM ovation neck are extremely radical mods or anything. It's still going to sound like a viper, and it will have actual OEM viper parts (except possibly the tuners.)
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Waskel
Posted 2006-05-22 10:55 AM (#254292 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840

Location: closely held secret
I know where you can get an MOB with some neck and top issues....
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ProfessorBB
Posted 2006-05-22 3:50 PM (#254293 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper



Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881

Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
I agree with a number of prior posts. I would never dream of modding a 25 year old Viper in order to possibly reproduce a preferred sound. You could put hundreds into it and still be looking for something more. Why not pick up a used Fat Strat that has everything you want for less than the cost of the mods to and possible depreciation of the Viper, then keep the Viper for for its vintage value?
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2006-05-22 5:25 PM (#254294 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15677

Location: SoCal
I disagree. There are a ton of old Vipers out there. They sell for about $325-$450 and have for a long time. I have tweaked an old Viper just for the fun of it and have no regrets. They are cool guitars, and are really wonderful instruments, but they really don't have, and in all honesty, never will have a real "vintage" value.
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MWoody
Posted 2006-05-22 6:01 PM (#254295 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996

Location: Upper Left USA



If this makes me a Tweeker, so be it!
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2006-05-22 6:12 PM (#254296 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15677

Location: SoCal
Woodrow, you should be embarassed to be seen with the Ltd 12 string. Just to be nice, I'll take it off your hands for $100.......
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MWoody
Posted 2006-05-22 6:19 PM (#254297 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996

Location: Upper Left USA
You are so selfless!

I have always preferred Mutts over Purebreads anyway. And the look on their faces when they open the cage at the pound is, well...
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holLoWskull
Posted 2006-05-22 8:32 PM (#254298 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper


Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 22

Location: Hagaman, NY
I'm actually suprised by the amount of members on this board that seem so dead set against modifying their guitars. I just find the general sentiment kind of interesting especially seeing as how Charlie Kaman was such a radical thinker concerning the acoustic guitar. I mean at some point Charlie must have been playing this radical guitar with a fiberglass bowl as it's sides and back and thought 'wow, this is a uniquely cool guitar I've made, but I wonder how it would sound like with a pickup in it?' (and thus out came the saws and files and we have the acoustic/electric guitars we enjoy today). I mean if he never wanted to mod his original idea, Ovation may never have had the "get plugged in" slogan. I do apologize for kind of taking this thread in a different direction from the initial post, but I'm used to electric guitar forums (Hamer) where it seems most people don't think twice about swapping pickups or changing bridges in their guitars in a quest for making a great guitar even better. I can see I'll have to work on you guys :D
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MWoody
Posted 2006-05-22 10:02 PM (#254299 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996

Location: Upper Left USA
Don't tell anyone, but on a rack in the Engineering Department during the Tour was a prototype Adamas with a UKII pickup wired in at the neck.

It wouldn't fit in my Camo pants! :mad:

Then I noticed the mold for #47 et al, and forgot what I was doing... again...
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ProfessorBB
Posted 2006-05-23 9:12 AM (#254300 - in reply to #254276)
Subject: Re: Looking to 'modify' my viper



Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881

Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
MWoody, I don't think your mods count. Your rebuilds are custom works of art and go way beyond what the normal Tweaker is trying to do (or can do) by changing out a pup or bridge.
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