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Location: Pennsylvania | I've been looking at 12 string guitars, and I love the sunburst 1858 Elite 12 string.
However, it's only offered in a shallow bowl, and for me, medium is a must.
I'm probably barking up one heck of an expensive tree, but does anyone know about how much it'd cost to have Ovation custom make the exact same guitar but with a medium bowl? Thanks!
If it's really expensive, I'll probably just wuss out and buy a balladeer 12 string. Any thoughts on that guitar? I dont care for the looks in the least, but it's the only affordable 12 string with a mid bowl...
[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Tennessee | Hiya Snowlock ... Ovation used to make a model 1758, which was a mid-depth 12 string Elite. Very nice. I almost bought one but ended up going for a Custom Legend at a price that was too good to pass up. I think they made the 1758 as recently as 2000, so you might just call all the Ovation dealers you can (they're all listed on www.ovationguitars.com) to see if someone still has one hanging on a wall. You might get lucky ...
//0~0\\ |
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Location: NJ | Snow;
As another suggestion, have you tried a 12-string Legend? I recently compared a new shallow-bowl Legend12 against a mid-bowl version of the same guitar (but a couple years older), and I got hooked on the shallow bowl hands down! It sounded VERY full and VERY bright! (but that's just to my ears. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | That's interesting! I was wondering why they sold the elite 12 str and the legend 12 str in shallow only!
So a is shallow bowl the best choice for a 12 string? Remember that I play my elite t unplugged 95% of the time, and it would be the same for a 12 string. Let me know what you think, guys!
[ August 19, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: SoCal | If you are playing 95% of the time unplugged then the super shallow bowl is not the way to go. The super shallow bowl guitars fit in with Ovation's thoughts that their guitars are going to be plugged in most of the time.
For an acoustic sound unplugged, get at least a mid depth bowl and for the best unplugged acoustic sound, look on ebay or else where for a deep bowl. You won't regret it.
The super shallow bowl, unplugged, is a very thin, bass lacking, guitar. Plugged in, it's a whole different story. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | I just saw the Custom Legend for sale for 1499.99 with a case. That, in truth, is my top choice for a 12 string. It's a mid, and it's beautiful. And if by some weird fate, I have those kind of funds available at the time, I'll definately be snatching one up. Or mortgaging one.
[ August 19, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: SoCal | Snowlock:
Is this the guitar you're refering to?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=897677554
This is a beatiful mid depth bowl guitar that has been on ebay about 5 times with no bidding due to the high first bid. If this is of interest to you, I'd contact the seller, mention that there has never been any bidding, and offter him $1200 and see what he says.
Hell, if I didn't own Big Blue (12 string Adamas), and I was looking for a 12 string, I'd buy this guitar. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | That is real nice, but I want the natural finished 12 string. I'm also going to see about custom ordering it in a deep bowl, or see if I can get it deep w/o electronics (which probably isn't possible since the bowls are made by an outside contractor).
Also, I'm going to see about custom ordering an elite sunburst 12 string in a mid or a deep.
I'm going to go to all the dealers 'round here and see what kind of quotes I can get.
[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: snowlock ] |
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Location: Tennessee | Snowlock,
I saw this one on ebay ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=905136110
I think it is similar to what you were looking for, although not sunburst. It looks like a good buy, and if I didn't already have a Custom Legend 12-string (which I bought after searching for an Elite like this) ... I would ... errrr .. somebody better buy this one before temptation gets the better of me.
//0~0\\ |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | My vote on the 12 string deal is to DEFINITELY go with a Mid-depth or deep bowl!
I have an Elite 12 string Shallow Bowl which has been my main ax for many years. She takes a beating, is incredibly reliable, and I demand a lot of her-an incredibly sturdy-feeling guitar. But the fact is, she is has ALWAYS been lacking in bottom end, and as far as I am concerned it suffers plugged in as well as acoustically. That's always been a source of argument between she and I. My 6 string Custom Legend Shallow really suffers the most from a lack of fullness, though acoustically I don't mind her sound-she's punchy.
Recently I've acquired an Adamas 12 string with a mid depth body and graphite top. That one is the fullest sounding of them all, though I think the graphite top still makes a for a bit less bottom end. The highs are extremely rich, great mids, and the guitar sound very full due to the difference in bowl size. I demand a thumping bass sound (which most players don't), which she is still hesitant to give me, but our relationship is still new. Gotta work her in a bit.
The one REAL benefit of a shallow body is the comfort playing on stage, it's just so easy to play and reach around while standing. With a band the thinner sound would be fine, but as a solo artist, I need the fuller sound of mid depth or deep bowl.
The one REAL bummer of a deeper bowl is that I can't have even the smallest pot belly AT ALL! Standing on stage it's just one round belly bumping one round back guitar. She feels like she's 12 feet away and rolling all over the place! Guess that's good motivation to slim down!
Anyway, I thought I'd share my experience on the 12 string/bowl size thing.
All the best to everyone!
Johnny |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Well said Johnny
Love to hear your experience with your guitars.
[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | ...And one time....in band camp..... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Call the boys in Bloomfield up and say you want a deep bowl and they have eyerectus if they can't see that the market is NOT only wanting SS bowls. Tell them to stop drinking their bathwater and make what the paying customers want.
(There was a VP of Marketing, since retired, who used to speak in fluent cliches and the bathwater was one of his best. Randy Hess started a list of them and there were over 900 when the list stopped but that's another story) Anyhow, they should understand what bathwater means! |
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Location: Pennsylvania | I think this extreme abundance of SS bowls everywhere is contributing to Ovation's bad rep. I've been to numerous Ovation dealers where the ONLY style they had in the store was super shallow.
Someone who's uneducated in Ovations, (and doesn't realize there is a mid and a deep), may pick it up and think that all Ovations sound like that. I dont mean to knock SS bowl ovations, but they look like acoustic guitars but aren't fully intended for that.
I think all stores should be mandated to have at least one mid-sized bowl in the shop. Maybe in a few years, they could start putting one or two deep bowls in shops. If they want to get some respect, I think they need to push mids and deeps some more. I'm not saying they should hold back on SS's, but just add some good marketing for mids and eventually deeps.
Sorry guys, I dont wanna be seen as the one on this board who's always ripping on Ovation.
I love Ovations, obviously, I just would like to see them make some smart moves and gain some major respect. They deserve it. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Ovation really started the shallow-bowl trend with the introduction of their ss-bowl lineup in the early '80's. Everybody and his dog began to follow suit and make shallow or 'thinline' versions of their guitars as well. It was reminiscent (to a smaller degree) of what had happened ten years earlier with the introduction of electrified acoustic guitars.
But now, the trend has reversed a great deal and players have moved back to playing full-bodied guitars on stage again. This is in part due to the improved preamps (ie: notch filters, etc) which control feedback much better and allow deep guitars with their better bass response to be used. SS may be comfy to play but couldn't possibly sound as good in the low end, even plugged in.
Ovation and their dealers are missing out on this significant trend shift by promoting only the SS bowls. Maybe they don't care because they have the Takamine line to fill this void, but many people don’t want a Takamine, they want an OVATION that sounds as good as it can, wether unplugged or not.
Wayne |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | Hey, if you don't mind a fixer-upper, this one may be interesting...
Elite 1758 12-String
Might be worth a look.
Bradley |
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Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana | And while we're complaining about the super-shallow bowls and their overabundance in the Ovation lineup, let's also complain about the extreme overabundance of those damned, friggin' cutaways! Too many is too much!
Sorry, guys, my margaritas are having an undesirable effect on me.
And I can still play "Gentle On My Mind" in E-flat, quite fluently, thank you very much! |
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Location: NJ | I like the cutaways. |
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Location: SoCal | Tommy:
In E flat? With or without a capo? If if without, why? |
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Location: Scotland | I find a cutaway on my acoustics to be essential. I own cutaway & non-cut Ovations & any difference in sound between cutaway & non-cut models of the same bowl depth is so subtle it isn't worth considering. It's a matter of practicality.
[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i really like the ss cutaway, though the ones i have are from ovations good stuff. without fail my musician friends are amazed with the sound they produce. for me, they are much more comfortable to play, especially sitting down, and that counts for a whole lot after a 4 set night. when you are playing to a crowd on vacation on their 3rd or 4th margarita, playing a washboard will get you rousing round of applause so why torture yourself. those deep guitars cut off the circulation in my right arm after awhile. the fat old woodies cut the circulation off under the arm and below the elbow. but i play plugged in and can use the eq to boost whatever range i need to be strong the ss is great and the cut away is essential since half of the time i am playing a solid body. you get to depend on that upper register for those accents that make a jam sound like more than campfire music.
the 12 string adamas ss i recently bought from bill is hands down the best sounding acoustic 12 string I have played. not that i have played hundreds, but i really like this one. and my 1982 b is my parlour guitar of choice-------also a ss cutaway. you can get comfy with it on the couch and still play it.
now, if the ss is all that is available these days on certain models, that is too bad, because no doubt all of the bowl sizes have their following and specific uses where they shine. it's about what makes the best music in YOUR hands in a given situation. and what the GUITAR can do, deep deep or shallow shallow is only part of it. |
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Location: Boston MA | i dont play 12 string but a like the mid elite-t that i have the sound is nice and full and my gut doesnt get in the way much the ss must be good for playing on stage. im looking for a non elec no cut away deep bowl thought i might try the ss but as i dont play live now i whant a deep bowl. have not been able to try one not many stores even have mid all ss. well i sent email to ovation asking about custom ordering but no reply its been 5 days any way any thoughts on where to find one? alpep any at your place? BRIAN |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Brian,
I've got a deep bowl, non-electric, non-cutaway Glen Campbell 12-string that I will be selling shortly. Email me if you are interested. Dave |
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| I think that everyone agrees on the super shallow versus deep bowl sound differential. It actually goes a step further to cutaway versus non-cutaway. The new Folklore Deluxe is a beautiful instrument that sounds great - believe it or not, it's a deep bowl non-cutaway! |
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Location: Boston MA | just looked at the new folklore on ovation site they have updated it they all so gave me a reply to my email on custom orders i guess i have to go to a local store and go through them that doesnt sound right i dont play 12 string so thanks anway for the offer dave, any way i would like to see and try the new folklore deluxe but its so new i dont think i can find one i live right near the city and have a lot of stores that have ovations so im off to call around if any one sees one around let me know :D Brian |
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Ordering a custom Elite 12 string
