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Location: NJ | Unfortunately not an Ovation was to be seen, but I thought I might file this report in case someone else might have the opportunity to catch part of this tour.
Last night I caught Graham Nash at Town Hall in Manhattan. GREAT show!! I'd seen him many times before in the various incarnations of C&N, CS&N, and CSN&Y, but this was the first opportunity I'd had to catch him on a solo tour to support his new album (which is pretty good as well).
I think what impressed me most was his band. Jeff Pevar (from CPR) played acoustic, electric, and lap steel guitar. While he was no David Lindley, he was by NO means anywhere NEAR a "slouch" either. Larry Klein played a big, old Gretsch hollow body bass. RUSS KUNKEL on drums!! (need I say more?) The thing that most impressed me last night was the guitar playing of DEAN PARKS. This guy was phenomenal!! I can easily see why he's one the most sought after sessionmen in L.A. His style is just SO fluid and effortless!
Al, I know you're a big Richard & Linda Thompson fan. Nash did (as he does on the new album) an absolutely eerily haunting version of "Pavanne" that shoots a chill up yer back! Definitely worth a listen!
Sorry for the ramble, but I thought I'd throw out a recommendation in case the the opportunity might present itself to others.
Ay!, when I come across some "good shit" I like'ta share it wid' my frendz!!
Ah'm good like 'dat, y'know? |
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Location: NJ | I thought this post was about Nash cars like the metropolitan or ramblers or well never mind... |
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Location: NJ | Ogden? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Didn't they make those cars by running through the fields with leather aprons....... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I probably shouldn't post this but I will anyway. The thing that TOTALLY frosts me is that when you see great music today, and great artists that are really doing something, breaking new ground, making music that stops you cold, you never see an Ovation associated with it. It was always my priority to be close to these guys. If they won't play your product they will at least tell you what is wrong with your guitar (why they won't play it) That's where the new ideas come from! DUH!!!! It's time to stop looking only at the fu%$$%#ing bottom line and look and listen to the F%#$$#%^*&*ING MUSIC !!!!!!!!!!!
Christ, I sound like an old retired fart raving from the rocking chair. Somebody tell me, am I wrong?
[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: cwk2 ] |
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Location: SoCal | No. You are absolutely fucking right. |
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Location: Pennsylvania | I totally agree. |
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Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana | To which I'll add:
CWK, you are most definitely absolutely unequivocally fuckin' right-on right!
I think the margaritas are having a good effect on me. I'm coherent.
Al, I'll give ya all the respect you want or need, if no one will. You're my "Legend"ary friend! |
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Location: SoCal | Tommy:
Go to bed. You might wake up in the morning and discover that this evening you started a very bad trend on this board... you started being nice to Al. Not a good thing to do. It goes to his head and pretty soon he'll start thinking he's worth $300 a day plus expenses. |
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Location: NJ | When I was 19 I had a business with a friend of cleaning out basements, attics and garages, homes etc. We were paid a small fee (less than 300 a day) and were able to keep any salable items. On the weekends we went to the local flea markets to sell our stuff. There was an elderly man than probably in his seventies who had a small dog with him all the time. He was rather forgetful. He liked my friend and I and would often buy some small item for one of his projects or just sit and tell stories of the old days. Well it would always end with how his wife passed away and he and his dog "skippy" with spend time sitting in his back yard and maintaining his beatiful garden with beautiful flowers. He would tell us how his time was not worth anything and so he could do what he wanted.
Now that I am "semi-retired" I find myself spending much more time in my back yard.....I bet you that old guy is up there smiling. But my time is worth millions so I am using it the best I can.
[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: alpep ] |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | si----you are cien pinche porciento correcto guillermo. they speak dollars and not music. |
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Location: NJ | Y'now, Bill;
I bought my first Ovation back during their/your "heyday". At that time they were "cutting edge" acoustic guitars. With the exception of a few dyed-in-the-wool afficianados of M's and G's, everyone that I admired or respected were playing Ovations. After the advent of the Adamas, it seemed the the public visibility seemed to start dwindling. Now, this may not be an accurate observation because at around that same time I got married, had a family, did career things, and pretty much immersed myself in my "Own Private Idaho". My guitar playing declined to sporadically digging my way to the back of the closet every once in a while (when I had the time) to get my guitar case out, playing at the occasional friend's wedding, and when one of my old buddies might come over for a late night guitar/beer fest. During that time, my Ovation "sightings" (either on TV/movies or at concerts) gradually diminished. My infrequent trips to the music store to get replacements for my years old strings resulted in my not seeing many (if any) Ovations in the stores, and the ones that I did see were (to me) crap! (at that time, I knew about the lower-end Aplause, but knew nothing of Celebrites and such).
All I was seeing were gutars that (IMHO) didn't have the same ceaftsmanship as my old one and brandished "Made in Korea". My first thought: "Jeez! THIS company's really gone downhill"! After I had acquired my SlotHead, I had approached a couple of places (over the phone) asking "The Question". My most common reply was "Well, Ovations don't really retain or appreciate in value like an old Martin or Gibson will". Admittedly, I was a little disheartened. I kinda got the feeling that I'd "backed the wrong horse". Disheartening as well was the apparent realization that all these musicians that I'd admired and respected had either faded into oblivion, (or worse) died, (or even "worse-er") switched guitars on me. While it all had a bit of an effect on me, for the most part I was "unphased". It all boils down to Bill's "ice cream" analogy. This was MY favorite "flavor". To ME, this was "guitar".
Kids grow up, marriages run their course, careers change, people/the world evolves. I left "Idaho" in a whole new light. In the past two years I've probably done more playing than the previous twenty. And luckily (with the advent of discovering this place), I've discovered I'm "not alone".
My question(s) is/are:
When did this popularity shift occur? Was it gradual or did they/we just "drop off the screen"?
I know for some time this Bergstrom guy was doing artist relations, and another gentleman (his name escapes me) was prior to him. Was one better than the other? Or, would you atribute it to just some type of "corporate policy" change?
Seeing an Ovation in the hands of Clapton, or McCartney, or Matthews isn't gonna change the feeling that I personally have for the guitar. But I must admit that seeing something LIKE that would give me a small degree of "validation" for the guitar I own, the one I'll buy in the future, and the company I'll buy it from.
I just got my new issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine in the mail. Enclosed with it was a new McPherson catalog and a 13-track CD of various players (including Phil Keaggy) playing songs recorded w/McPhersons. Granted, this doesn't neccesarily mean that they ARE great acoustic guitars, but at least their trying to "portray" themselves that way. (btw: They DO sound great on the CD, albeit recording technology being was it is today.)
ENOUGH of the "Electric Player's Acoustic" mentality!! How about "A Great Sounding Acoustic that Sounds Great Plugged-In"?
Is it even known if they still have an active Artist Relations program? Granted, I recently checked it out and there ARE a few more people (and "contemporaries") on it, but no one that I'd consider anywhere near an industry "heavy hitter".
My "soap box" meter just ran out.
sorry. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Cliff,
John Scammon was the AR guy before Dave Bergstrom. No change in philosophy with them. Bergie left just before I did in 98. Rick Whelden worked for Ole Dave from around 87-97 and was the guy running the John Bovie endorsement tour. While they weren't my favorite they sure gave a hell of alot of exposure to the product. Rick left in 97 for unrelated reasons. I left in August of 98. I am pretty sure there is still an artist relations person based in Nashville. Past that I don't know what they have for AR or what their policies are or who their targets are or any of that. I'm in the dark as much as all of you. Sure would be nice for the VP of Marketing or the president of the company to come on here and address these issues. Nothing like an answer from "the guys in the know" and "with the power to make things happen"
Bob, Paul, How bout it guys??? Put on your skates, come on out on the ice.
Talk to some of your customers, ones that really like Ovation. If I was still there you KNOW I'd do it. |
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Location: Scotland | Cliff, I think the change in popularity was symptomatic of the way the acoustic guitar market evolved in the late 70's & in a way Ovation was a victim of it's own success. Ovation guitars were so visible up to that time because there wasn't a viable alternative, they were the only guitar that could be bought off the shelf with a pick-up system that worked to pro standards. Then along came Takamine, Washburn & everyone else wanting a piece of the action with electro-acoustics. Suddenly musicians needing to plug in had a lot more to chooose from and as a breed guitarists tend to be a fickle bunch, even those on endorsement programs (witness Van Halen & Ernie Ball/Peavey)
[ September 21, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: NJ | Here is the way I see it. Ovation is the mothership and started as an alternative to the traditional acoustic guitars then got a pickup and became the premier acoustic electric for stage use.
In the meantime Fishman and others have developed pickups and preamps that sound good but IMHO have not yet reached the reliability and tonal dynamics of the Ovation preamps.
As we know Kaman music corp owns Takamine. Soooo the eighties arrive and you get the MTV unplugged trend. EVERYBODY now wants an acoustic but unplugged it is NOT because they all must have pickups to be amplified. Soooooo Ovation does not have the traditional look of an acoustic guitar. Artist relations says well don't go to a competitor take a Takamine home. Now the preamps in Taks sound great and some of the upper end models are real nice but for the most part I find them rather bland acoustically.
Ovation gets the red headed step child status even though they sound GREAT plugged in and most models sound Great acoustic. Ovation has been around now a long time and is no longer innovative. I have witnessed people that LOVE ovations and others that would not play buy or own one if you paid them. It is absolutely fascinating to me that in Europe and Asia Ovation has a huge following and in the US they are often considered second rate. I think part of the reason for that is some Americans tend to like the look of something over the quality and innovation of the product.
It is an uphill battle even 30 + years from the beginning. Most of the talk on this board focuses on how cheap cool old ovations can be had. I firmly believe that the strength of your new product falls on the resale value of the used product. Buy a Porsche and trade it in after 5 years and you still have something buy a Kia and in 5 years they are turning it back into soda cans and tin sheds. |
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Location: Scotland | Never has there been a bigger misnomer than "unplugged" The fact is that to do the unplugged thing you have to be plugged-in. What MTV should have called it was "Another cynical ploy to repackage tired old back catalog by using acoustic instuments" Not as snappy as "unplugged" admittedly. The MTV unplugged series was good in that it made a wider audience aware of the potential of acoustic instruments, though very few used in the series were Ovation, but in terms of any artistic merit much of it was pretty grim (IMHO)
[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The unplugged movement was the greatest thing to happen to electrified acoustic guitars, ever.
I agree with Paul, It was like jumping into cold water, at first it is refreshing, then it's just cold. Another $.02, the electric version of Layla is still the best. |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Well first, Ovation should create an underground movement identifying Ovation players as 'bad asses.' You then take said image, market it to yuppies everywhere and create an artificial shortage of product, thus boosting demand for new instruments and increasing the resale value of used ones. Don't forget to buy stock in the company, as this business model is sure to guarantee success. All the while, the folks that have been keeping the company afloat all these years, suddenly can't afford the new product and begin to complain that the company has forgotten all about them in phone calls and letters to the company and even on their fan club website. Oh shucks, did I say Ovation? I meant Harley-Davidson... :p |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Well said Rich. All they need is the emails for all the underground movement guys............ |
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Location: Morrilton, Arkansas | hey cliff......thanks for the post on Graham Nash it made me drag the needle through my old WILD TALES album. brought back good menories. sounded just as good as the first time i heard it around 74 |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | First I have to mention for Tommy and the other Louisiana Ovationists that Lenny Kravitz had an auction in N'Oluns (I welcome corrections of my pronunciation) this weekend. maybe some of his Ovations were on the block. I would have mentioned it sooner, but I couldn't get on the board Friday, some weird message in the left hand panel.
Great discussions of Ovation's status in the music world. I remember Ovation's introduction as a revolutionary acoustic with the shape and composition of the round back designed to project the sound better than "standard" acoustics. This pitch appealed to the gadgeteer in musicians, and the sound was OK, but my recollection of what was said in playing circles was that they were extremely unbreakable and could withstand the abuse that guitar players tended to give in those days, a guitar as a collectible was limited to Gibson $1000 E175's etc. the rest you threw in your trunk and hauled out at beach parties etc. and hoped the bridge was still attached. The Ovation HSC added to this reputation. The next thing was the Glen Campbell TV show and the addition of a good acoustic pickup built in. Ovation was the only one that had this in the 70's (about the time I bought my Viper), and then came these beautifully trimmed models and then the Adamas fiber topped models, all very attractive. But what happened next was punk, metal, etc. putting thousands of cheap Fender, Gibson solid bodies, whatever knockoffs that these affluant teens could afford from MF etc., and posture in front of their amps, play two power chords and entirely miss what a guitar sounded like. Ovation did not have a solid body in production so missed out on that phase of fad marketing and therefore missed out on the "acoustic" phase that followed that you have discussed, that should have been their forte. Also, if Kaman owns Takamine they may have cut Ovation's throat as Takamine has a big chunk of the "acoustic" market in the US and maybe they don't want an Ovation rennaisance, although what I see of modern music, Ovations should fit in well.
Bailey |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | Human nature is that when you buy something "new" you notice EVERY TIME you see someone else who is just as smart and as cool as you are to have bought the same thing... In sales testimonials are and have been for a long time one of the best forms of marketing / advertising. I have a built in marketing focus group of 3 musicians... They point out when a song is on the radio that the lead player is playing "his" Gibson, his drums, his keyboard... I check evey band I see to see if they are playing my favorite guitar. It does validate.
Woz.
PS. I just rented a PT Cruser on a recent one week business trip. Every PT Cruser I passed waved at me. I was in a "club" and I didn't know it. |
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Location: Seymour, Tennessee | God am I bummed !
I just went into the store in town where I bought two of my Ovations to get some strings and ...... THEY DON'T CARRY 'EM ANY MORE !!!
All they carry are the Applause's, "We just weren't selling enough of them anymore".I'd gone in there (admittedly it had been a while) hoping to drool over the new guitars and man, what a dissapointment.
I tell you what, screw these people who say Ovations are not any good , are second-rate, whatever. I love mine!
I am really happy to have discovered this site and be able to hear stuff about these fine instruments and the people who love them too. |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Thanks Bill (typing while wearing my "Hell's Picker's" denim vest). I'd just hate to see Ovation get lost in the sea that has become acoustic electrics.
Btw, I saw Larry Coryell play and wow, what an experience! Couldn't bring myself give him your regards though...
Me: Hi, great show!
Larry Coryell: Thanks...
Me: Bill Kaman sends his regards...
LC: Oh, you know Bill?
Me: Uh no...
LC: (looking confused) oh?
Me: I know him from the internet, the Ovation Fan Club website....
LC: (Rolling eyes, then looks away) where can a guy get a drink around here?!
So you see, whenever you say you know of or about anything from the internet... This is how I imagined the conversation would go, but it didn't actually happen :eek: |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Last I knew Larry won't take a drink but 20 years ago.......
Kaman does not own Tak. KMC has the distribution rights for the USA and Europe and some of the rest of the world.
When Taks got hot, just what has been described happen. Here's an Ovation, want to play(endorsee) or buy(dealer) it? Oh you don't? Oh, well, How about a Takamine? Great, how many?
The real reason I stated a few months ago. The problem is that Ovation is NOT a company and therefore is not treated/thought of as one anymore. This is by dealers, endorsees and Kaman Music sales and artist relations people and other staff with the exception of the people who build them who lose their jobs if production gets cut back.
What Ovation is IS just one of the many product lines that Kaman Music Corp carries. The perception is that KMC is a guitar company. Truth be told it's probably more of a drum company (Gibralter, Toca, Gretch drums, CB drums, Sabian, and all the related stuff that goes with percussion, sticks, heads, etc) than a guitar company. I don't know for sure but suspect it to be true or at least trending that way. A large percentage of the ad budget goes to percussion, and rightly so, it's a very important part of the biz.
Sorry to run on like a Democrat complaining about Florida election results. We should keep in mind the old saying about the squeeky wheel. It's said that "They" read all this stuff so lets Squeek Up! |
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