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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hello everyone. If I had to buy an Ovation today, I would not be to excited about my options. I know I am a fan of the older Ovations, but where are the deep bowls? Wasn't the whole concept of Ovation based on the round back? Now you have to "special order" many deep bowl models. I spoke to someone at Ovation awhile back about this. He told me that the company had moved to a more "stage" guitar. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Isn't it an acoustic guitar first? The deep bowl give you the bass that in my opinion make the Ovation sound. I am abit biased because of my Adamas. But I have played so many shallow bowls, and they are not for me. Well at least we still have the AL De meola Custom Legend with the deep bowl. Keep em deep...Paul Hebert |
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| See Paul’s post # 848 under the topic ‘Deep Bowls Rule!’ and if you counting on the 1769-AD5’s you might think about getting one now. |
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| Yep, I agree with you all. As you can see from my recent post, I too have come to the realization that the old Legend series with the deep bowl was the 'Ovation Sound' that I remember from my youth, and that the current crop including the 2002-AC beauty just doesn't have it.
Now that I have my mind wrapped around a Custom Legend standard deep bowl (no cutaway) with natural finish (-4), I was suprised that the 1779 that is still listed on their site now has NO picture and many of the specs. are omitted - as if it is being discontinued. It was the only Custom Legend that was not shown with a cutaway.
The 1769-AD5 is not and can't be ordered in natural finish because it is a signature series! So, unless I can find my guitar on ebay, I'm forced to special order a modified 1779 (at extra cost and probably 6 mo. delay) with a deep bowl and natural finish. This combo. now does not fit the model number convention - it should probably be a 1619-4. Now, I ask you - is this a way to promote the 'Ovation Sound'? It's sad the hoops we have to jump through to get what Ovatin used to produce every day. Are they really selling all these bass-less instruments that they really believe that is what the customer wants, or is this just a bad marketing decision? |
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Location: NJ | Well it seems that most buying ovations now want to plug them in and use them on stage. That is fine unfortunately to get great tone out of the guitar you need to have a deep bowl but don't forget there are other companies that also make shallow acoustic electrics too like Guild for example and these guitars have the same problem so don't think this is just a move made by Ovation it is a move made by the industry |
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Location: Scotland | It's perfectly possible to have a full-size guitar work well on stage at high volume, it just takes some good outboard gear & an understanding of how to use it. For some people it's cheaper & less hassle just to eliminate the sound-box. But, a good amplified tone begins & ends with a good acoustic tone, you can't polish a turd. I like the sound of super-shallows plugged-in slighlty more than I do unplugged, which is not at all, but they really should be considered a different type of instrument altogether and shouldn't be compared to full-size guitars. Unfortunately the market will dictate what will be produced & it would appear that the majority of electro-players prefer guitars which have the acoustic sound compromised in order to achieve a feedback-free, but ultimately bland & generic tone.
[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Bloomfield Ct | Its true that you really need to have the full bowl to get that old "signature " Ovation ssssoouunndd.. Having said that I have a super shallow that I simply love the tone of and its the one I play most often. I am working on my finger style technique like crazy these days,(Christmas tunes you know) and the SS gives me the most ballance and shimmery tone. Its a 1984 model and sounds great acoustically.
The current SS guitars don't quite have that sound, but the factory is working on coaxing a bit more "acoustiic tone" out of the shallows. It can be done. I hear they have their "deep bowl" irons in the fire as well.
I tend to think of it as the same thing you would get between a dreadnought and an OM sized guitar. You can't expect the OM to rumble like the dread. The OM has its own tone. Lighter, sweeter, with less dominant bass. More balance. If you really want the "ooomph" of a dreadnought, you don't buy the OM.
I think the world knows by now that Ovations rule on stage. They have a pickup that stays ballanced no matter what gauge strings, or what tuning you use. Robert Fripp used that new standard tuning he dreamed up, and has said it would not have been practical without an Ovation. On stage the Super shallow gives the player more of an "electric feel" And thats why they are more in demand by the rockers. Thats OK as far as I can see. Ovation still has to believe they are an "acoustic" guitar company as well however. And they need to develop some real sounders to keep their faithfull users in the fold. |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | I only have mid and deep at home. The 17yr. old and his gang have "trouble" putting there arms around the deep. I think that the "comfort" issue is what is driving the marketing... The same gang love the super shallow 12s hanging on the wall at the local guitar center... The "gang" plan to plug it in so the big unpluged sound of the deep doesn't impress them. That said they come from electric guitars first and now are trying the unpluged for an everyday guitar... The feel is thin and not bulky.
I wonder if you start playing with an electric and look for an acustic you might "always" have
that wrap around problem.
Woz |
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Location: Scotland | The comfort thing is definately a factor. A friend of mine wanted an Ovation and I found him a used but mint deep-bowl Custom Legend. He loved the guitar but his beer-gut didn't and after he struggled with it for 3 or 4 months I ended up selling it for him. Deep roundbacks & deep round fronts don't seem to be compatible. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | If I could afford to get my arms around a deep-bowl Custom Legend, I'd go on a diet! Priorities!
Norse(talk about motivation!)man1 |
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Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | I'm no expert, but I must say that I do not hear a significant difference between my deep bowls and artist depth bowl models. Question - is Artist depth the same as mid depth? To me the biggest detractor from the original Ovation sound is when you throw in the cutaway and load up the body of the gutar with all those big electronics boxes. I took a two-knobber Adamas (which sounded pretty damn good to begin with) and I ripped out this huge electronics box and a big battery holder. The guitar just came to life acoustically. I resisted even trying a SS bowl for a long time and only last year got my first SS and I must say that the comfort is amazing and I always pick up this one when I just want to play around a bit. It sounds aweful acoustic, but plugged in it's great sounding and a perfect stage guitar. Dave |
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Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | You guys hit on another part of the topic that I forgot to put im my original post. Almost all Ovations are cutaway models. Here again you are cutting into the acoustic tone. You have already lost volume with the shallow bowl, and to decrease the area more with the cutaway I don't understand Thanks to all of you for your input. This has bothered me about Ovation for some time now. |
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Location: Scotland | There are lots of variables. There's generally only a very subtle difference between a deepbowl cutaway with electronics and a mid-depth cutaway (the mid depth is slightly deeper than the old "artist" depth) The difference between a cutaway & non-cutaway of the same depth is so subtle it's hardly worth considering. Those differences are exagerated if you compare a deepbowl, non-cutaway acoustic-only model with a super-shallow, which is missing the point of both types. A single guitar usually will not cover all the bases without some compromise (though I'm hoping my new custom Ovation will!) Decide what you need the guitar to do & buy an appropriate model, that's why there are so many options. However I think that offering deepbowls only as a special order is letting the side down. There should be a few more production deepbowls for the people who want that sound.
[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | My deep bowl 1117 Legend with a mic has a beautiful rich mellow tone for rythmn guitar. My deep bowl 1711 Balladeer plugged in has bright harmonics for leads and flat/finger picking. I love the sound they both make, but you're right Paul, it's what you want to use it for.
Norse(either way, I can't go wrong!)man1
p.s. My poor Fender, it looks like Tiny Tim's crutch... left well preserved by the fireplace! |
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| What about the Folklore Deluxe - isn't that a new model from Ovation with a deep non-cutaway bowl? |
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Posts: 15677
Location: SoCal | Ovation only built 100 of the limited edition Folklore. Has anybody heard any response on the sales of those, or reaction to them? |
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Location: Australia | Deep bowl, non cutaway gives the best acoustic tone.
Both my 96' Custom Legend and my new custom made Adamas are like this.
It really irritates me when I see Ovations stupid magazine ad's they're currently running.
There's the one with the guy with the American flag Custom Legend screaming into the camera and the own I really hate is the Swedish (I think) girl band (Spice Girl Clones)holding various models and claiming they use Ovation.Who cares!
My new Adamas sounds so good, I wish they would also promote the acoustic side of the instruments. |
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| Elderly Instruments and Alexandria Music in GBase Gear Mall. Both have one of the new Folklores for sale and they have had them for some time.
Mike |
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Location: Scotland | "Deep bowl, non cutaway gives the best acoustic tone"
Very likely, but half a dozen people having a polite conversation will make your great-sounding acoustic tone virtually inaudible.
The entire history of music & musical instruments has been driven by a quest for greater volume. Louder instruments mean reaching a bigger audience, which means more money is made. In the early days it was Martin making bigger, more robust guitars designed for steel strings, Gibson developing their "Advanced" instruments, the Larsons making flattops a family of four could live in, the Dopyeras and their resonator guitars. Later it was Barth & Beauchamp, Bigsby, Leo & Les. Later still, Jim Rickard developed the first serious acoustic pickup that didn't sound like an electric guitar.
The point is that now there are several completely different applications for "acoustic" instruments. At one end of the spectrum there is a need for a great-sounding acoustic guitar, period. Then there is a need for an instrument which can sound acceptably like an acoustic guitar at stadium-gig volume. Somewhere between those 2 extremes there is a need for a guitar which will do both the plugged & unplugged thing reasonably well. To survive in today's market a guitar manufacturer has to be able to produce a range of instruments which meet those criteria & more.
I think that Ovation by now will be aware of the need to keep the acoustic players happy, the new Folklore was an indication of that & hopefully more similar instruments will follow. The reintroduction of the original Adamas is a very positive step. But, I think acoustic players, & I count myself as one, should accept that electro-acoustic guitars designed primarily for stage use are as much a fact of life as the Fender Strat, shouldn't be their first choice of guitar and should stop comparing them to acoustic instuments.
Paul
[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: Australia | Paul,
I don't disagree with your point on volume, I love plugging too.
However, great sounding acoustics have alot more applications than sitting around with half a dozen mates.
My point is the modern Ovation companies total emphasis on "Plug It In" gives the average punter every reason to believe that plugging in is all they're good for.
Hopefully Ovation are heading in the right direction, hopefully their marketing will follow. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | What direction? What marketing? |
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Location: Australia | I walked into my local guitar store today and they had a new Ovation poster...
...Yep, it's the punk with American flag Custom Legend...
Arghhhhhh.......!!!! |
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Location: NJ | is he a player or a model? or both????? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | What direction? What marketing?
As a side note I have unofficailly heard that picture, whoever it is, has pist off many of the right wing, more conservative, more christian, etc of the Ovation fans. To balance that I wonder how many of those type of punks they added to their list of loyal fans. Any?????? |
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Location: SoCal | What's funny about the ads, is that as I approach 50 (much faster than I care to), and can afford better guitars, ads with people like this kid turn me off. I aboslutely love the Taylor ads because they are aimed directly at me. Just don't care for Taylor guitars.
I would guess that it make for financial sense to sell more Celebs at a lower cost than high end guitars at a greater cost. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Paul, you're right. It makes sence (and lotsa dollars) with celebrity sales. However the point of those models is to get the person playing an Ovation and then move him up to the USA models. Doesn't a Chevy driver secretly wish for a caddy? (I know this argument might not always hold water with cars but the concept is still valid) You gotta make them want what you make in your own factory!! At least that's how I looked at it, maybe it's different today.
I agree with you that the Taylor ads have a certain appeal to us old pharts in rocking chairs, (I like the one about his drinking improving). At a time when there aren't any, or many endorsees, for whatever reason (separate discussion) it would be smart to make the ads in another direction that wouldn't make that fact obvious. Martin is doing this as well with their everyman ads.
OK, now back to the rocking chair to practice my drinking (geritol). |
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WHERE ARE THE DEEP BOWLS????
