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| Random quote: "Got time to breathe, got time for music." --Briscoe Darling. |
 Big Time Ragin'
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003 | Message format | |
cms-man |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 170 Location: The Shop | Man you guys are serious about your Ovations,which is very cool dont get me wrong,but I think to bad mouth us on the fan club page is pretty much useless.I think that whoever comes for the tour,really ought to say something to the management people that will be there.I find myself talking like this and i work there,and I still cant figure why we dont do more with the artist's,marketing whatever.I think if the word gets to the ears that it needs to get to- who knows maybe something would change.I have been trying for years to give ideas and it doesnt seem to pan out. P.S Paul hebert your logos are on the way | ||
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| cliff |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 14842 Location: NJ | I think it would behoove us to "bad mouth" Ovation by any means, and that's NOT really what we're doing. I think it's more of an assortment of empassioned, frustrated opinions. It's my understanding that some of the "powers-that-be" do in fact monitor this page and DO in fact take some of the views into consideration. The Tour should be interesting - to say the least. | ||
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| cms-man |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 170 Location: The Shop | Maybe bad mouthing was the wrong word.I just get the feeling that after reading a great deal of the postings that most of you really dig the old Ovations,and that not many are buying any of the new models. Buying the old models off E-Bay isnt going to keep us in buisness.I know you like what you like, but you have got to understand that we have to build guitars for a huge array of diferent people. I do hope that someone is monoriting this page, becuase i do feel that somethings need to change. | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | there are plenty of good ovations still being made and the recent post re 2001 collectors series is testimony to that. what is making a number of us favor the older ovations is that they were consistently good guitars almost no matter what usa model you chose. now with so much overlap, even a guy with over 30 older ovations is trying to figure it all out. it seems marketing is replacing the devotion to making innovative fine instruments. in honesty, when it comes to great sound, percentage wise, ovation is making less great guitars. might be producing more and selling more, but why do you think the members here who really badmouth the "woodies" out there favor older ovations. | ||
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| cliff |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 14842 Location: NJ | It's somewhat difficult to buy something that you can't find and/or gain access to. When compared to it's counterparts the Ovation webpage is a joke. The far too vast majority of retailers these days either don't carry Ovations (or don't any more), and those that do carry a minimal smattering (if any!) of the US models. Someone "new" to Ovation will never be able to even consider one if they can't see/feel/play one. Granted they may have access to (and can buy) the imports, which helps the overall bottom line, but it doesn't put work on your table. | ||
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| cms-man |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 170 Location: The Shop | We are still building the same guitars now as we were 20 years ago. How can you say that we are building less great guitars.The only major diff. from now to then is body depth-oops!now there is a sore subject.I belive that we are building even better guitars now.The woods are better the technology is better I mean the whole op. is alot better. | ||
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| cms-man |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 170 Location: The Shop | I agree with you on that Cliff and I dont have an answer on why you cant find a domestic any where.That comes as a surprise to me,since we are still building them, Where they go I dont know. | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i said percentage wise ovation is building less great guitars. i dont mean the usa guitars arent fine guitars, but judging by what is for sale, new, percentage wise, most of ovation's line isnt produced in the usa. and i personally own and like all of the bowl depths. they all have their place. and now i must go practice and gig with my usa ovations until 1 am. i love them. i don't play anything else. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7237 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I am so surprised lately about the number of closed minded people, with cold-war 80's attitudes that appearently never talk to anyone under age 20. People who appearenrly expect that high quality guitars drop out of thin air, and that a company that has been in buisness longer than most doesn't have to constantly attract NEW customers. cms-man, I don't think anyone is diss'n Ovation as such. I think the harsh words are out of frustrations resulting from the realization of the above statement, or more to the point. Getting old sucks!!! I also think we are at a point where the lack of seeing the new USA Models either in stores or in media is affecting our view of how many are out there. Like you said, you're making them... they gotta be going someplace, we just aren't seeing them like we used to, although I would guess you are probably making even more of them than you used to. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | cms man you make some good points. The reason why there are less USA ovations available in stores is simply because there are less of them made. The reason why Ovation makes shallow bowl guitars is because of the demand for them. A company that does not attract new buyers is doomed. I would have said that by the time most people reach their 40's they have already bought most of their major guitar purchases in their life. But everyday I find myself proving that theory wrong. What must happen is a balance between attracting the new buyer and satisfying the guy that wanted an Adamas 1 in 1979 and could not afford it until 2003. You are absolutely correct when you say that buying old guitars off e bay does not support the factory or its workers. I have always said that the strength of the new product lies in the resale value of the old. Part of the purpose of this website is to increase awareness in the product new and old. The more old guitars that get bought at a higher price will only make the new USA Ovations more attractive to the new buyer. I like the new and old product. I don't always like everything. But I also like my 55 ford pickup and find it easier to work on then my 99. There again must be a balance between new endorsors and old. There must be a balance between guitars that attract the established player and artist and the new player. You just keep cranking out guitars and we will get busy making them popular again. LOL | ||
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| cms-man |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 170 Location: The Shop | Amen to that! Keep on keepin' on :) | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | Without getting into the bowldepth thing again, I think the current guitars are among the best the company has ever made, and while I like deepbowls the mid is a great compromise. My own collection includes guitars from every decade, the oldest being a '68 Deluxe Balladeer, and the most recent a '96 Mando and 200O SMT. An '03 Custom Folklore will be joining them in a few months. While I enjoy the older guitars & would never part with them, as a pro musician it's the new instruments that are my workhorses. As for Ebay & older guitars. While older USA Ovations can be had so cheaply they will always be attractive to a knowledgable buyer. If that buyer has $400-$600 to spend and has the choice of say, a new Celebrity or a late 70'/early 80's Legend, what's the betting he'll buy the Legend? No, that will not keep the factory in business, but then Celebs are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Equally if someone wanted to spend $1200+ on a new USA guitar I would have no hestitation in recommending an Ovation over the competition. The problem would seem to be finding USA-made instruments in the first place. | ||
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| stonebobbo |
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Joined: August 2002 Posts: 8307 Location: Tennessee | Right on, Miles. CMS-man -- I'm with you all the way. I've got two fairly recent Ovations along with two 70s/early 80s models. The quality of the construction on the new ones are fabulous, the materials are first rate, the electronics are light years ahead, and they cost less (in real dollars) that the earlier ones. I still love my old O's, but sentimentality only goes so far. There will always be a market for vintage instruments (right, al?), but that won't keep the factory open. What will keep the factory open is building guitars that will entice someone to part with their money. With all due respect to everyone, marketing is "product, pricing, promoting, packaging, and placing" to meet the needs of your buying market. Every single one of these components has substantially changed since all of us wild-ass, sacriligeous, non-conformist hippie-type long-haired freaks broke tradition and bought our first Ovations. And lets be real ... very few of us could really tell that they were that much better ... we bought them because they were new, radically different, changed the sound coming from acoustics, and gave us an electric-feel neck. But as with all new waves of innovation, traditional Ovations have become mainstream in the past ten years, especially to the next generation. Mainstream Ovations (the ones adored by most on this board) are selling fewer and fewer precisely because they are mainstream, and we need to face the fact that most mainstream buyers will veer towards the traditional woodies. And us old fogeys are falling into the trap of "they don't make (insert any product here) like they used to" and therefore are buying on eBay and in used stores based on this bigoted misconception. So Ovation is at a crossroads and in order to flourish, they need to re-evaluate their 5 P's, pissing off the old faithful in the process. (I cite Porsche moving to water cooled motors as an example ... the traditionalists cried "Blasphemy!", but after three years many are coming around to the fact that the new cars are just flat out better given the new paradigms of auto design). I for one hope Ovation is on the ball, and it looks to this outside party that they are. Product? Take the Elite-T ... virtually everyone here was aghast at first, but once the verdict came in from people who actually played the guitar, it was deemed a winner. And of course ... "the elctric player's acoustic". Pricing? Ovation is priced to the mid market. If they want to compete with Taylor, Martin and Gibson, they need to come out with a line that costs $4000. Rolls Royce used this strategy quite effectively ... no doubt some Harvard MBAs have analyzed this internally and maybe that's what the rumors of a new Adamas are all about. Promoting? Hell, we all agree they can do a better job, but having DJ Ashba leading the charge is taking the fight to the next generation of buyers. And I'm OK with Ovation spending some dollars in skating and surf mags. Packaging? What is selling in volume ... the green, blue, quilted, gothic, etc. I think the MOB is a stroke of genius ... I want to get my hands on one because I think they look really cool and believe that it will be the Elite-T situation all over again. Finally, Placement? It's the web, baby. Let's have an informal show of hands here, people ... how many of you bought your latest guitars over or because of the web? See ... nearly unanimous. That's why you're not seeing that many in stores anymore. Ovation is a different kind of guitar, and therefore need to be a different kind of company. And they need to STAY different, even when it means they have to endure the ranting of all of us. Because if they do their job right, we'll log on to this site from our nursing homes in thirty years ... and read the rantings from folks who think that Ovations is all f&*ked up and should be making guitars they way they did in '03. Sorry for the ragin' ... I love this board! | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15678 Location: SoCal | Al, you can afford two trucks? Wow. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | moody I inherited the 55 from my dad and my grandfather. Unfortunately like my 68 pontiac ragtop it needs to be restored. too many projects so little time | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Here are examples of why I prefer older Ovations. Last summer I was in a music store with my brother. He is a doctor, and the kinda guy where money is no object. (must be nice!) Anyway, he is fond of Taylor guitars, but I have been after him to get an Ovation. The store was rather large with a great selection of acoustic guitars from various makers. My brother went straight to the Taylors, while I went to look for an Ovation to show him. But much to my dismay, every single Ovation there was a shallow bowl model! I thought no way, but yes I was stuck with a bunch of tone dead shallow bowls. Even a Custom Legend shallow bowl! (what a crime that is). Here I was trying my best to make another Ovation convert, and all I can show him are shallow bowls. So I got ahold of the 2002 price list and we sat down and looked the current crop of Ovations over. His first queston was..."Any deep bowl Legends available?" I had to tell him no. Not even a deep bowl Legend. How about a deep bowl Balladeer? he asked,. they have to make that. Yes they do, but only as a pure acoustic after a 3 month wait. Long story short, he bought a Taylor. This is what is so annoying about Ovation. You want a non cutaway, no luck. Ever darn one has a cutaway. Look at the Balladeer. Ebony fingerboard, no now it is rosewood. 5-piece neck? No 2 piece mahogany with a satin finish. Wood overlay on the headstock? No you just see where the 2 piece neck is joined together. Schaller keys? No Ping,what the hell are Ping keys??? Oh well enough about that. My brother has offered to buy my Adamas many times. NO WAY, I gota hold on to that one, what does Ovation make now that could take it's place..NOTHING....Paul Hebert | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7237 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Stone, Al, Paul, you all hit it square. I was trying to say it in less words but I just kept missing. I'm glad you guys took the time. My only addition is to stonebobbo.... who said "I want to get my hands on one because I think they look really cool and believe that it will be the Elite-T situation all over again." you forget to add, "and the chicks will dig it!," but I guess that is a given. | ||
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| six stringer |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 18 Location: Radford VA | Bottomline, I'll tell you right off the go... I have no "old 'O's". My oldest model is a 97 Balladeer. And I just purchase a 2003 Celebrity with a OP-20 pre. FROM KOREA. Not the greatest guitar in the world is what most of the people on the board would say... however I find it to be a great guitar, entry level and gigs. I've only played for 3 years and I'm 21. To be honest I don't know much about music theory yet I can run off anything by ear (which is not a big deal, most folks can). My favorite song writer is Dave Matthews... I didn't go out and by a Martin (however I do have a Gibson Chet Aktins Acoustic). I pride myself in being able to play most Dave songs... some are a little over my head. But... I owe a Gibson Chet Aktins acoustic and I'd rather play the Celebrity rather than my Chet. OVATION MAKE AN EXCELLENT GUITAR. Any entry level guitar they make is worth owning... Adamas, yeah if you get one it's probably sweet playing. College students like myself can't afford such things. Although if any of you wanna present a deal to a poor college student. LET ME KNOW!!! Patrick | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | This is what I don't understand about some gutarist. An acoustic guitar is made for one reason....SOUND! I got my Adamas because its sounds awesome. Should that not me the major consideration when buying a guitar? Sure alot of guitars look cool. I learned that lesson when I bought a PRS once. It looked beautiful, but sounded aweful. I don't play Ovations because they look "cool". I play them because they sound great. I don't care if you are 19 are 90. Pick up a guitar and listen. Feel it vibrate. It is an acoustic guitar first. That means it makes it's own sound. It's all about the sound...Paul Hebert | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | Gentlemen Climb into your $40,000 euro-racers, crank up the bass, and cruise the hood with your racer shakin the trees as you go by. With the ho's and bitches dyin to get in and service you, what kind of Ovation would you choose or would you be more concerned about your wheels, some of which cost $4000, not leaving much for a piece of shit that doesn't haul your ass around but requires you to learn something. It's a new world and I applaud the Dave Matthews fan as he plays music as we know it. It's a new world as we've heard every 5 years since Elvis and the Beatles. But is it, or is it just one more turn of the wheel. I think a good sounding acoustic guitar is immortal, and the Elite T might prove it. The surfer might work too. Bailey | ||
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| Rich |
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Joined: July 2002 Posts: 150 Location: Minneapolis, MN | you crack me up Bailey! ...ho's and bitches... LOL :D | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7237 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Welcome Patrick, I'm not a huge Mathews fan, but living in Northern Va, for awhile, I did get an appreciation. I always wondered what his stuff would sound like played on an Ovation. It seems like the perfect music for it, lots of cool chord progessions at a decent volume. The comment "an acoustic guitar is made for one reason SOUND" got me thinking why I own the acoustics I have... Sound wasn't the only reason, only a factor in most cases. 1. My beloved Medallion bought in the 70's. It was an Ovation that I could afford. We had a "factory outlet" of sorts that sold 2nds so I could get it cheap and I found out it would travel well. I didn't know from sound back then, I thought it would be cool to play a guitar that was made in my home state of Connecticut. 2. Adamas II blue burst. Nancy Wilson played one. AFTER I decided to buy the guitar I realized how wonderful it sounded. The icing on the cake was the pre-amp with the low imped output too. 3. 2001 Collectors. Coolest looking guitar I have seen in awhile, and then WOW the sound. Had to have it. 4. The ELite-T I do not own yet, but it would be the first to sell me on sound. I was kinda 50/50 on the looks, not sure if it's me, but then I played it. I will have one. 5. Adamas - I have heard them, but not in places to really compare, so I figured it would sound as good if not better than the Adamas II. I went searching for one I could afford as mostly an electic player, but a fan of all things Ovation it seemed necessary I have an original Adamas. I found one, or it found me, and I was so knocked out by the tone, and this one has a story behind it that is kinda cool too or in a Mark Twain tone "I won't let the facts get in the way of a good story." 6. Tangent - It's kinda fun to play, and I have taken it to at least one party. I'm not a big fan of the sound I get from it acoustically, but it does pretty good, and it sounds fine plugged in, and acoustically still better than most other guitars that were at the party. After reading what I wrote, I guess I'm pretty shallow... Of the 5 acoustic guitars I own, none of them was purchased with "sound" as the primary reason to look at it, but only as ONE of the primary reasons. Breaking it down, any guitar acoustic or electric for me, must excel ultimately in ALL of the following criteria: Looks, Sound, ease of play, and be what I consider afforable, which is usually the result of my impression of the Looks, Sound, and ease of play. I think what this and the other thread have shown us all is that people buy and play guitars for some very different reasons. I know a guy that collects and plays guitars for their looks. He likes odd shapes and bizarre colors, and if it sounds really cheezy that's a bonus. (Yes Lee I'm talking about you... you lurker you :) If I was at Ovation I would be feeling pretty proud that the guitars I produce bring this much passion out of people. As Al said... (it's worth repeating) "There again must be a balance between new endorsors and old. There must be a balance between guitars that attract the established player and artist and the new player. You just keep cranking out guitars and we will get busy making them popular again." Rock'N Round!!!!!!! | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | Paul H, an acoustic guitar may be designed for sound exclusively (and even that statement could be argued) but an electro-acoustic has several other considerations. I no longer use my '78 Adamas onstage because it gets unruly real quick at the levels I need to play at. My SMT, which doesn't sound quite as big unplugged, behaves itself to the the extent that I can play fingerstyle in front of a loud rhythm section without feedback & with a convincing "acoustic" tone. As for cutaways I would defy you to tell the difference between a cutaway & non-cut Ovation of the same bowldepth in a blindfold test. I personally find a cutaway essential, which is another reason my old Adamas has been retired. It's one of my favourite guitars and I still use it at home and in the studio. The point is that generally a single instrument will not cover all the bases. | ||
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| 78Adamas |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 32 Location: Warsaw, Indiana | I agree with Miles, buying a guitar is a subjective issue. Many moons ago when the linear sound spearkers hit the scene(I'm dating myself) I was shopping for a new stereo system. After spending over an hour with the salesman he thought I was crazy for not buying linear sound speakeres, but I didn't like them. I bought the system that sounded good to me. In 1979, when I walked into the music store in Milwaukee Wisconsin and saw my 78 Blue Adamas in the glass display case, I mentally purchased it without touching it or playing it. The aesthetics are what did it for me.(subjective) I played with a Martin owner and he called it a plastic piece of junk, however, my piece of junk not only looked better that his Martin, it sounded better. I still have my Adamas and to this day I appreciate the craftmanship and the beauty of that guitar. I believe in the Ovation guitar, however, someone like me who plays mostly for pleasure and probably will not have another guitar, is not of interest to the company. So bottom line, if I were to get another guitar it would be an O, the issue is however, if you play, no matter what you play, keep on playing and enjoy! :) | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15678 Location: SoCal | People who tell you that your guitar is "junk" regardless of what you play, are ignorant biased fools who's mothers' never taught them manners. If somebody starts out a conversaton telling me my guitar is "junk" because it's an Ovation, is not worth talking with. I've said it before, but it bears repeating. I never ask that others feel about my guitars the way I do. I hope that they feel about the guitars that they play the way I feel about mine. And I would never rip somebody else's guitar. | ||
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