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| The Ovation Fan Club | ||
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| Random quote: "One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain." - Bob Marley |
 Site needs a face lift.
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003 | Message format | |
Magicman |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 30 | This site needs a new look. I could submit a design, wouldn't take long. I've been building webpages for quite some time now and I'd be willing to give this one a more modern day look pending the approval of the current webmaster and the rest of the fan club members. Don't want any sort of payment, just my head on the one dollar bill. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7248 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Email me with what you are thinking about. Must work on ALL platforms, require NO plugins etc. etc. Always looking for new things. Need to keep some basic elements as the BBS is a software package, so it's kindof on it's own. The Menu is the only thing that can really change. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | wow we have been around one year. It works well and looks fine. what ain't broke don't fix is my opinion. btw I hate all those cheezy sites with crappy muzak and junk flying around the screen. It takes forever to load and serves no useful purpose but what do I know I sell gear for a living... | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | I've been using computers since they were invented and I'll go with Al. Simplify, Simplify, Simplify, too much flash slows down everybody's screen, the more you compute, the more you like things to pop up on the screen, waiting for meaningless effects is a big annoyance, we are communicating here with text and don't need no steenkin' Improvements unless they add speed. The gunfighter that added the impressive flourish to his draw is now dead! | ||
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| BruDeV |
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Joined: January 2003 Posts: 1498 Location: San Bernardino, California | BRAVO! | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7248 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | LOL nicely put Bailey and thanks, Although I always like to see new ideas, thats how I learn. I think I will take this moment to brag a little, as although there is not much flash up front, there is quite a bit on the backend that makes this site rock if I do say so, and I would guess that from the looks of the site, no one really knows what the chef has cooked up. This is about to be an onslaught of techno babble, so if you are not interested... change the channel now. :) I won't be offended... I've been known to put myself to sleep even. Just in the navigation screen there is javascript, vbscript, server objects, SQL calls, asp and standard html being used. The BBS itself is in pearl/cgi, but I have done some hacks in asp and javascript. The gallery and the rest of the members area is done in vbscript and Pearl with some javascript (to access the BBS Security) and SQL. What's it all mean? The result is that the site serves pretty standard html when all is said and done. That means if you are on a PC, fine... MAC, fine... IE fine... Netscape almost fine... Got a web enabled cell phone? Your mostly covered. Use a PDA, not a problem (mostly). WebTV, works fine. An additional design constraint, although we don't do any translation yet is that as example, just this week, folks visited from not only 41 of the 50 states (remember you don't have to be a member to just lurk) but.... 6 Canadian Provinces 9 European Countries 1 South American Country 4 Asian Countries and Australia. Ok, I'm done... Al and I really appreciate the comments and suggestions. The 6 hours each way spent driving to the Ohio guitar show twice a year, and the two NAMM trips each a week long, are spent talking about a lot of the ideas that come up. Not to mention hours of phones calls in between. So far I don't think any idea has hit the trach heap, just takes time to prioritize and bring each one online. I figured if folks are kind enough to write nice things, then they might want to know what the man behind the curtain is up to. That is the reason for this post, nothing else really. Thanks again for all the support. I am really looking forward to meeting everyone at the Factory Tour. I think it's going to be a blast. | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I to really like this site. It is easy to use for us who are sometimes computer challenged. Please don't change it to much Miles, I think you did a great job just like it is....Paul Hebert | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | a generous offer magicman, but i come here for fellowship and information from a great bunch of people. this site is what it is because of the people and the guitars. i'm not sure what you can do to improve that. i am already amazed by what is here, and don't feel intimidated moving around here. it's kinda like one of those old push button car radios--------doesn't need a manual to operate it and you can keep your focus on the road. more speed would great but for me i think that would require a new computer. the log jam seems to occur at the interface between the keyboard and fingers anyway. now, if you can help figure out a way to keep my real desk in order------------------ | ||
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| Magicman |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 30 | Alright, I figured as much. I won't waste my time or miles' by submiting something if everyone likes the way the site looks now. Personally, I think the site looks pretty bad, but that may be because I'm a webmaster and I like things to look new and inovative. Anyways, no problem, just thought I'd offer. | ||
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| jbx2 |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 35 Location: Reading, PA | Your offer is generous, we all need a little change. The only thing working on me about this site is the marquis across the bottom. This isn't a cable news show. Jim | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | Magicman I think Miles explained the criteria for the site and he is open to suggestions. Unfortunately "looking bad" whatever that means is too vague. Personally I am into function more than flash. If the site loads quickly and everything can be found quickly easily and efficiently. To be honest some sort of flash opening with muzak and exploding Ovation logos although perhaps would look snazzy would not serve any purpose. I started selling items on e bay about 5 years ago and at the time I had a 56K dial up that rarely connected over 38K. When I would surf e bay and come to an item where the person put a big pic on it and it took too long to load I would move one. I realized that if I was doing that so were tons of other people. So I loaded low resolution photos and made sure my items would load fast and not take forever for people on a dialup. What miles has accomplished here was a site that was easy to navigate chock full of information and easy to load. What exactly do you mean by new and innovative? If it means using flash and half the people at work who surf the site cannot use flash then the site is useless. The website for my business is not flashy but barebones. it loads quick and is easy to navigate and serves the purpose of presenting what I have for sale to the customers. Why not submit something if it fits the parameters miles set out? If you can do it better we are open to suggestions, but just because something does not have a ton of bells and whistles does not mean it needs them. | ||
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| kb5zcr |
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Joined: December 2002 Posts: 19 | Hey, who knows what Magicman will come up with. Maybe everyone will love his idea and wonder how you lived without it. I like the way my home is furnished now but an interior designer could make it better I'm sure. The only thing I think this page needs is to place a link to the gallery on the bullentin board page and make it so that when you refresh from a message page it doesn't take you out to the welcome page again and you have to click several times to get back to where you were. A pain to do if you ask me. Tim | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7248 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hi, Just to address a couple of the questions, as everything I do has a reason (sometimes only for me).. :) I was just going to send this in eMail, but there seems to be interest, and well... it does affect everyone. We'll bring this back around to guitars somehow. :rolleyes: The scroll on the bottom is strictly for my convenience. It also provides some useful information for folks like those at Ovation who are planning the big Tour event, knowing how many folks are signed up. Sure I could send an email, give them a separate page... all that... but like I said.. why bother. Same with the other information. I also use the scroll to pass info that everyone should see, if necesary. It's simple, but effective and doesn't need anyone to click anything special to see it. As far as links from the BBS page to the gallery, that's a little more complicated than you might think. I actually wanted ALL of the menu options on the BBS page so I could avoid frames, but alas, it requires more pearl programming than I am in the mood for and one other more serious catch I will explain in a moment. The BBS is a commercial piece of software, written in Pearl/CGI. When I asked myself if it was worth the hours of programming to move the menu items into the BBS sofware, voiding the support contract, and making seemless upgrades nearly impossible, I decided against it. As Al correctly stated, I love seeing and hearing new ideas. I've only been a "webmaster" (I guess that's what developing commercial web pages is) for about 12 years, and programming for 27 years, so there is ALWAYS room to grow. If you have some ideas, either do a graphic mockup, or just send me a text description. I'll let you know what I think. The basic criteria is fairly simple. It must be no less compatible than what is contained in the above description, which although not mentioned eludes to working well at connections of 28.8 or less. Yes, many web enabled phones only work at 14.4 which is fine, because they only support text. The obvious question is "who" accesses this site from a phone or PDA? I don't know about anyone else, but I do, and I am the admin for the site. :) Also many overseas users are using older operating systems, modems and poor connections. According to the stats, there are about 1.5% of the viewers each week still using Windows 3.1. With sessions in the 10,000+ range thats potentially 150 people. Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage anyone. I didn't get to where I am in life by not listening to suggestions. I get all the input, then decide on my own what course I want to take. If you have an idea, that will not compromise the current capabilities of the site, please, as I mentioned earlier, send them to me. You might also send me links to other sites you have created, that is my best way to get the feel for your style. There is also a possibilty that I may have other work for you too. To everyone who has stated they would not want to see change, I hear you loud and clear as this is your site. I would only make a change if I thought it would enhance the site, and be of significant advantage in some way. | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | miles, one thing i think would make sense to change, is after i post, it takes me back to the topic where i just posted. imho it would be better to go back to general posting, as that is what i always do anyway. i'm ready to go on to the next topic instead of reading what i have already read. for some of us with slow connections it could save quite a bit of time. maybe i'm missing a way to do it already here----- any other opinions on this? | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7248 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hi, Russ that's a function of the software. I'll send them the suggestion. What I do is as soon as I see the "you are being redirected" prompt. I click on the Fan Club logo over the navigation and I'm ready to move to the next topic. | ||
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| Magicman |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 30 | Let me say that my aspirations for the site have been badly misconstrued. I wouldn't do a thing to change the current functionality of the site because i think Miles has done an amazing job with that, nor would I add flash. Personally, I am against flash for two reasons, compatability and load times for people on dialup. The only thing I dislike about the site is the current design. However, if the addition of imagery(and that's about it, no sound effects or annoying music) to make the site more graphicly appealing hinders the usability of surfers on their cell phones or 14.4k modems, and the board finds this enough to warrant not making any change, then that's fine. Thanks goes to the board members that responded with an open mind to new ideas. To the one's that discard any kind of talks without seeing any sort of a product, I think you're playing the wrong instruments. Saying "if it's not broken, don't fix it" is like saying Ovation should stop making guitars. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7248 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Glad you weren't scared off. I'm not sure what you mean by design but I'm assuming maybe something a little nicer in the navigation bar (I wanted to keep/give the message board as much real estate as possible). I had thought about rollovers at least for the links, but after I created them, I went down the road of them taking longer to load than text, no matter how spiffy, then decided that it really didn't matter. Again, if you have something in mind email it to me. I'd like to see it. Miles | ||
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| Magicman |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 30 | I'll have something to you in a week, around there. One thing that would help me, what are the fonts you used for the ovation fan club image? | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | as the person that posted "if it ain't broke don't fix it" I take offense to your last comments. First I think it is rather arrogant to come onto a successful bulletin board that has over 1000 members and is barely a year old and criticize it. You have no tangible credentials that you have stated in your post to warrant such a blantant display of arrogance. You made no constructive comment just destructive. Perhaps if you wanted to be constructive you could have been less cryptic and more specific in your plans for a better "design". < To the one's that discard any kind of talks without seeing any sort of a product, I think you're playing the wrong instruments. Saying "if it's not broken, don't fix it" is like saying Ovation should stop making guitars. > Well now you done and did it. This statement not only makes no sense but has no point of reference. I guess if I follow your logic I can say, if you don't like the website you are looking at the wrong one. I hope I did not offend you totally but I think you have to realize that your initial post was not only arrogant but rude. If you REALLY wanted to help you would have privately e mailed Miles or myself and made your suggestions like so many others that have contributed to this site. But instead you criticized the site in OUR public forum with NO tangible ideas or alternatives. | ||
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| innerman |
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Joined: July 2002 Posts: 327 Location: Houston, TX | Al, back off. I was initially defensive when this thread started, but held my tongue. I'm glad I did, but I won't now. My first reaction when the thread began was to explain how much time and effort you and Miles have put into the site - without funding. But it felt like a rant, so I held off. This guy means no harm or offense - maybe the presentation could have been a bit more refined, but I'm sure you understand, being from Jersey. If one guy is a little bored, or maybe envisions something different than what is currently available, I think that is OK. Remember your rules for the board - be tolerant. That being said, please know that 1000+ are in your debt for what you've done. Thanks again. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7248 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think Al is "right on" on in this. I don't think the "play guitar" comments were kind in the first place, that's why I didn't even address them. I also held back a little initially because in reality, Magician did the equal of walking into someones home and telling them they don't know how to decorate, but I have dealt with folks doing that for years where I've worked. I find the new breed of programmer has no concept that programming is an artform, and frankly they believe a lot of the hype they use to get their 6 figure salaries. I do think it very bold to do what Magician has done, which is why I am interested. I must be honest that someone who critisizes, and leaves no hint that he has any professional experience, and repeatedly doesn't follow insturctions or suggestions, and hides their identity, didn't even use a "real" eMail address to sign up, isn't starting off on the right foot. Espeicially when it's being done on the most successful site of it's kind as far as I can tell. He has been a member for ahwile, so he's entitled to an opinion, but the guitar comment was rude. As for the font, I do not know the "Ovation" font. I took the graphic from Ovation as is, along with the color, to be consistant with their design. For the "Fan Club" and "Get Plugged In" I just scrolled through the fonts until I found something I liked that fit the Font class. Don't remember what it is. Also, I agree that you have been most vague. As a "webmaster" I would assume you realize that "design" can mean just about anything as it includes, graphic, content, layout, and presentation. So when you say you don't like the design as such, you are saying you like nothing about the site. To give you a better perspective of how you have come across, I will give you my impression of your "expertise" at this point based on what you have supplied. This is not meant to be insultive, but rather helpful. You have been on this board for several months, participated, but honestly I looked up your IP address to insure someone hadn't stolen your account as you went from guitar enthusiast to arrogant IT guy in a blink. So based on you giving yourself the title of "webmaster" and other comments, I'd say you are probably a graphics person, but asking about the font leads me to believe that you have little experience (I know several folks who I can call, they would just come to the site and by looking know the font). If you do actual web development, I'm guessing you either use a MAC, or if you are in the real world use Interdev or Frontpage (both banned at any project I work on). This is also based on the fact that you never asked what platform the site is on to know what language to use to "design." Even after I offered up what is being used, there was no tangible comment, no offers of links to sites you like, nothing. I used to offer interviews to folks like you as both a source of entertainment and possibility. I usually was just entertained, but on occasion, it was just a case of someone not knowing how to present themselves and it was worthwhile. I don't know which you are going to be yet. Which is sad because it has been several days now, and all anyone knows is that you may be a designer, your cocky, and a little rude. Of course all this would have been avoided if you would have just sent me an email like I asked in the first message, which means also you can't follow directions. I really don't mean to be insultive, but rather constructive critisism. You haven't given folks anything to go on, and to make matters worse, you keep digging your hole deeper. So my opinion at this point, is that it will probably be a waste of my time, and I shouldn't hold my breath for anything spectacular. Again, this opinion is one that you cultivated. If you go back to my first post, I was gung-ho to have you show me your stuff. My enthusiasm has waned, and now I'm bored with this topic. I guess I actually think for some reason I just realized that maybe your intent was to attempt to just insult Me, and that didn't work so you moved to Al. I hope that's not the case, but after reading the posts, it sure seems that way. Well as I said, I'm bored with this topic now. Please add something useful or just send the information that you stated above (not sure why I can't get a few comments to my email before a week), I'm tired of putting out the branch. Either present some tangible help, or suggestions or just drop it. | ||
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| ceres |
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Joined: October 2002 Posts: 56 Location: Alabama | "Site needs a Facelift" When this started it reminded me of the Michael Jackson interview the other nite. The guy is a multi ka-zillion aire who has turned himself into a side show freak. Leave the "Facelifts" to the vain aging actresses and idle rich pervs. :D You guys have done a great job, and I agree, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I too have held my comment, but the suggestion sounded arrogant to me also. If anyone can create a better site, I say Have at it and best of luck. ;) | ||
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| cliff |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 14842 Location: NJ | On another note, I have a vector-based, .eps version of the Ovation logo. Miles, if you need it for any of the vendors for the "store" merchandise, lemme know and I'll e-mail it to you. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7248 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Thanks Cliff, I already have it, but remember I'm not doing ANY Ovation merchandise and will not be using their logo on anything. | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | You guys have just seen the attitude that destroyed the stock market in the last few years. The idea that somebody who has never worked in a job was going to make a fortune for investors while he sat around and played video games and criticized real workers. The thought that a juvenile "genius" was going to produce money out of the ether was the faith that took a trillion dollars out of the stock market. People were running companies that we would'nt let restring our guitars in real life. And I'll bet I'll be attacked for the placement of my apostrphe shortly. Bailey | ||
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