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Location: 6 String Ranch | Yes it matters. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Food for thought...
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Location: Japan | By and large the shape is not going to affect the tone of the guitar, but things that will matter are mass, resonance and structural integrity.
It goes without saying that electronics and hardware will contribute as well, but since your question has to do more with the body we can leave those out for now.
As for the idea of taking a cheaper guitar and making a better one out of it, I wouldn't call it impossible, but very often what happens is someone starts out trying to save money in such a fashion, then spends more than their dream guitar would have cost in the first place, even before figuring in that their time would have to be worth nothing.
There are two very common ways of looking at guitars and what's worth owning, but my take is that if you like the instrument, then it's good for you regardless of whether others hate it or want one like it.
My own Fender Strat has sat in a closet for over 15 years and it's the only instrument I ever planned on playing professionaly. Now the guitars I use are Ibanez JEM/RG series.
Back to the main topic, 95% of the sound is not the pickups, but the sum of the guitar. Modeling aside, the source still matters because the structural guitar itself will be what defines what kind of attack and sustain the instrument will have, and although you can modify what comes out of the speakers, it will still be part of the equation.
The best thing you can do buying any guitar, after determining whether it feels comfortable to hold and play, is to see how it sounds unplugged.
Ideally you'll start off with a guitar that sounds good with no amplification; if it sounds good that way, then it'll sound good with no effects; if it sounds good with no effects then you don't have to go chasing your tail trying to make up for what the guitar lacked in the first place; usable tone.
Which is where we come back to personal taste. I also have an old Royal Flush toilet seat guitar I found in a pawn shop in Nevada that has a very usable tone regarless of its toilet seat and plywood with $2 pickup.
Find your tone and find your guitar, or vice versa; there are no bad choices as long as you're happy! |
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Location: The Shop | It matters a bunch! That is why guitars are not built from two by fours. |
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Location: Michigan | Bingo, Akami you nailed it.
I always said about an electric,if it sounds good unplugged & plays how you like it it sould sound good plugged in.
It has to sound good clean(of course it does I'm a blues guy) then you can make it suit your style of play.
Wally |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | But does it REALLY matter what a solid-body guitar is shaped like?
Yes.
but c'mon — isn't about 95% of the sound of an electric what the pickups pick up?
No.
And with all the filters and pedals and modelers today, can't you pretty much make anything sound like anything?
No. Crap will sound like crap.
So all things being equal (meaning the neck, pickups and action), could there really be THAT much difference in sound between some silly thing like a machine-gun shaped guitar — or a guitar made out of a toilet seat, or 2X4 from Home Depot — and a $5K Gibbie SG or Strat?
Yes, huge difference.
But for the moment, indulge me and ignore those things.
OK.
Or to ask it another way, if you wanted a nice electric, couldn't you buy a $149 Squire Bullet, stick a nice neck and really good pickups on it, and essentially have an 'American' quality Strat — for a fraction of the price?
No, you wouldn't. If you want to go the parts caster route, then buy a MIM alder body off of ebay, buy an all maple neck from warmoth, with SS frets. Pick out your favorite strat PUPS, I'd go with rio grandes, set it up for a 7 way switch. Pick out your favorite tuners, decide on a few other factors et viola for less than 800 you'll have a 1600 guitar. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Say Oddball, when you say "really matters", just exactly what do you mean? Same materials, same electronics, and same critical dimensions probably have more to do with creating a desirable tone than the exact body shape.
However, all other things being equal, a different body shape would very likely make all the difference in the world to the Fender execs in charge of the Strat and Tele programs. Continuation of exacting shape dimensions and specifications to retain product recognition, continuity and market share is basic business 101. When you can maintain extremely high market share (and profit) without changing your product, particularly when your customers say that the shape or appearance of the product appeals to them, why change it? Volkswagon Beetles in the 60's and 70's? Harley Davidson? Fender Strats and Teles? Gibson Les Pauls? Previous attempts by these manufacturers to "update" these products were met with undesirable and occasionally disastrous results. In the end, it is what sells that drives most production decisions. However, that said, I'm not sure where the profits are made in Ovation's product line. Typically, the entry level products are the loss leaders, and real profits are made in selling the high end stuff where mark-ups provide increased profit.
Even Ovation bases its continuing business strategy on maintaining strong brand design recognition with their acoustic-based intruments, i.e., a synthetic round-back with either a traditional round hole or a multi-hole epaulet shoulder design. Any deviation from these models, even between the low and high end product lines, is a marketing risk. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "could there really be THAT much difference in sound between some silly thing like a machine-gun shaped guitar — or a guitar made out of a toilet seat, or 2X4 from Home Depot — and a $5K Gibbie SG or Strat?"
Yes, because while a LOT of the sound is the pickup listening to the string vibrate, ALL of the elements that make up the guitar affect HOW those strings vibrate and because the pickups are attached to the body directly or indirectly, the material and SHAPE also affects the sound. It also affects the way the strings vibrate.
The tone of an electric is the sum of all the parts. Now the question was around shape....
If you built two guitars, one a big X and the other a round shape, using the same material but adjusting the size so they equaled the same MASS, but all else the same would they sound the same?
NO. Because the shape, would cause the wood to vibrate differently, and hence the resulting sound would be different.
whew... that was painful. |
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Location: Avondale, AZ | "You could make it as solid as a 30 pound Les Paul" Come on Fillhixx, my Les Pauls are on the heavyside and are under 10 lbs. |
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Location: CA | I appreciate all responses to this question. I wasn't really challenging any company or guitar shape or marketing strategy — just something I've wondered about. I don't completely buy (or, okay, completely understand) some of the responses, but will accept the 'sum of the GOOD parts' explanation. I've thrummed the Squier at GC and then the Custom Shop Strat and yes, it was night and day in every way.
Also agree with Akami's comment: "there are no bad choices as long as you're happy!"
Thanks again. |
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Location: Avondale, AZ | 
Here's one with a shape you either love or hate. The Pawar Guitar has a unique pickup system that is based on a three coil pickup in each housing, a humbucker and a single coil. Through this system there are 20 available sounds through passive switching. It's made from swamp ash. I would like to try one if I ever could find it. They go for around $2,500.00 |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | OddBall,
A small experiment you can do is just pick out two different shaped electric guitars and play them unplugged. Although you have to listen carefully, you should hear quite a difference. Of course, there are other factors like different wood and such, but I think this will get you to the core of your question.
Also, another experiment is to play the guitar with the heel or strap button touching a wall or maybe a wood cabinet. You will hear a difference doing this between different models and shapes.
While the difference in sound in the above has more to do with the materials the guitar is made of, you can see how shape becomes a factor in how it acts.
I guess a good pair for experiment would be a mahogany Deacon and a mahogany Limited. They are essentially the same guitar but in a different shape. They sound different even unplugged just strumming. |
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Location: Japan | Originally posted by an4340:
But does it REALLY matter what a solid-body guitar is shaped like?
Yes.
When it comes to sound the more accurate answer would be 'Not necessarily'. The shape of the guitar may change the sound in a noticeable manner and it may not, but in general will matter less than construction and materials, and the way shape will matter because of, as both Mr. Ovation and I pointed out, the way it affects resonance and mass.
And with all the filters and pedals and modelers today, can't you pretty much make anything sound like anything?
No. Crap will sound like crap.[QB]
Again this is a talking point type answer which conceals the truth. You can in fact alter the sound in many ways and whether an instrument will sound good or not will depend partly on the instrument, but moreso on the player and how they use the equipment they have. This of course includes modelers etc.
[QB]So all things being equal (meaning the neck, pickups and action), could there really be THAT much difference in sound between some silly thing like a machine-gun shaped guitar — or a guitar made out of a toilet seat, or 2X4 from Home Depot — and a $5K Gibbie SG or Strat?
Yes, huge difference.[QB]
AN4340, I'm really not trying to pick on your answers but you've answered in such absolutes that are impossible to back up.
Anyway the answer here is again a resounding 'Probably, but it depends highly upon how well the builder does with the materials they've chosen, and since you've chosen an SG and a Strat to compare to, you've obviously no particular favorite tonality, which leads me to answer that you may be even happier with the one you built yourself. (I've never seen an SG in the $5k region!)
[QB]Or to ask it another way, if you wanted a nice electric, couldn't you buy a $149 Squire Bullet, stick a nice neck and really good pickups on it, and essentially have an 'American' quality Strat — for a fraction of the price?
No, you wouldn't. If you want to go the parts caster route, then buy a MIM alder body off of ebay, buy an all maple neck from warmoth, with SS frets. Pick out your favorite strat PUPS, I'd go with rio grandes, set it up for a 7 way switch. Pick out your favorite tuners, decide on a few other factors et viola for less than 800 you'll have a 1600 guitar. Yes, very possibly so. There is nothing inherently bad about the body of the Bullet and although alder is an accepted tone wood there are many others as well. AN4340's choice would possibly fill his desires for what he thinks is the ideal guitar but it would be very easy for everyone here to sit around building a guitar and disagree on what they thought was best. It might be possible if you found a bunch of people who liked the same type of music and same general tonality but since you've stated nothing of the type, no one here can tell you the best pickups in particular and last time I heard the jury was still out on the effect of stainless frets on tone.
If you prefer the SG you mentioned for both tonality and feel then you're not going to be happy with the guitar mentioned above. On the other hand if what you'd like is a primo Strat then it might put you in single coil bliss.
For the record, I prefer a Strat type body with single coils in the middle and neck, and a humbucker in the bridge position, but my choices of pickup models differ highly from all of my friends, even though we all like how each other sounds.
If you want some more specific answers than you've gotten so far, now might be a good time to ask some more specific questions. But then again, I think you were asking more out of general curiosity than anything else.... |
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Location: Round Rock, TX | I agree with Miles, et al, that shape matters. I believe that therein lies the reason that some guitars (Strats, LP's, etc.) have not changed throughout the decades. Some shapes "work", in terms of tone, playability, sustain, etc., and some don't. Strat, Tele, LP, Explorer, Firebird, Parker Fly, and several others, are shapes that work and so they last and are endlessly copied with only minor variations. Other shapes don't work and are soon gone - some, perversely, attaining cult status and becoming very expensive collectors' items.
Having said all that, I would not say that shape is anywhere near the most significant contributor to a solid-body guitar's sound, but it is a contributor. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | After you make a couple guitars the answer becomes self evident. |
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Location: enid, ok | I think it does. A few years back, I tried to find a guitar with les paul oomph that had a floyd. These are predominantly strat-shaped guitars, and I bought two, one with emg pickups. I didn't get what I was looking for, tho both are keepers, and I think shape and mass have something to do with it.
To re-enforce Miles' thread, I have 2 Limiteds; one is lighter in color and weight, and there is a noticable difference, plugged and unplugged. Throw in my Deacon, and you have 3 forks in the road. No 2 guitars are the same. |
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Location: Jet City | Max, your prayers are answered
Les Paul with Floyd |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Wonder how this rates?
AJ |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | AJ, nice for traveling and playing in a crowded seating position or while laying in some hotel bed, just like the Traveler series, but still a bit odd feeling without the typical body mass. Do you know if this is somebody's personal experiment? |
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Do the shape of a solid body really matter?
