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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003 | Message format | |
Glockaxis |
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Joined: August 2003 Posts: 27 Location: Palm Desert, CA | Hello All, Thanks for fielding such an awesome site! It ROCKS! I've had a Korean made Ovation cc167 for 7 years now and it fits my body/hands like a glove. When trying to reduce the string height, a so-called luthier shaved the piece on the bridge a little too low on the high E string side and it has never recorded good since. Also, the neck at the heel has developed a crack running around it. So I decided to finally buy a higher end model guitar no matter what the cost. I brought home a Taylor 415 ec but wasn't comfortable w/ it so returned it the next day; exchanged it for a Cordoba Gypsy King classical Nylon but returned that after a week (wasn't sure nylon was the way to go and it only came w/ a 3 yr warranty). By the way, I tried every Martin and Gibson in the store but was so unimpressed. It was finally like coming home and saying, "Ah, yes. This is the one," when I tried an Ovation Custom Legend 1869 in black. It is a 2000 and had old strings but played and sounded better than anything else in the store. It also had a few dings so the store ordered a new 2003 same model and gave me a ticket to swap the two out. I always wanted an Ovation Legend custom with the beautiful inlays and electronics and I finally got it. I recorded it on my Tascam 424 last night and was ecstatic. Also, unplugged around the house, it sounds terrific - with more depth and volume than my mid-bowl celebrity. The only acoustic I can own would be ovation. I would love to acquire a few more in the new future from this board so I'll be searching. Dom | ||
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| cliff |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 14842 Location: NJ | Welcome, Dom!! Great story! Isn't it great to one of the "Enlightened"? | ||
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| Strummin12 |
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Joined: August 2002 Posts: 623 Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Custom Legends rule!!!!!! I love em, I love em, I love em, I love em! Welcome, and many happy years with that guitar. Reading the other thread on custom orders makes ponder getting a "custom, Custom Legend!".....Hmmmmmmmmm. All the best, Johnny | ||
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| Stevechapman |
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Joined: April 2003 Posts: 2503 Location: Fayetteville, NC | Dom, Great Story. I owned an Ovation Glen Campbell Model 12 String for many years! It recorded and played great plugged or unplugged- but when the playing gigs slowed down and full time work was hard to come by- I sold it. Ended up with an arsenal of different guitars and always ended up swithching to something else. Finally all I Had was a Seagull 6 String(Great Guitar- But I longed for a 12 String) I played around differnet High end models. Taylors sounded great- but somehow for lack of a better term- it lacked the Soul I was looking for. martins i just wasn't impressed. Gibsons played kinda ruff. Fianlly i started playing around With Ovations again! Ahhhh Just was i was looking for- the only difference is I my 12 Elite 1858 was customized by Ovation with a Mid Depth Bowl-and a Transparent Blue Finish. GREAT GUITAR- No other way to say it. Fantastic Allaround Sound Plugged or Unplugged and i used in in the Recording Studio Last Night and the Engineer was Ecstatic with the sound- he did a Miced acoustic track and a Plugged in track and EQed them slightly different and panned each! What a great sound I love this guitar!! Glad you found just what you were looking for! | ||
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| Michael R. Winters |
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Joined: September 2002 Posts: 806 Location: Seymour, Tennessee | I think the Custom Legends are without a doubt the most beautiful "stock" model Ovation makes. (I've seen some pretty collectors' series guitars through the years that have of course been beautiful too.) I don't regret for a minute getting my "Custom- Custom Legend" made. It's really cool having the only of a kind you know? If I wasn't so po (Thats too poor to afford the "o" and the "r") I'd love to have another guitar made, maybe someday I'll be able to do it again. COngrats on the guitar and welcome to the site. Oh yeah, howinthahell did you get a dealer to trade you out a new guitar for the 2000 model? | ||
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| Glockaxis |
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Joined: August 2003 Posts: 27 Location: Palm Desert, CA | Thanks for the welcome. As far as the dealer and the swap goes---The custom legend was on the floor but pretty banged up from being on display so long (2 knobs were missing, battery compartment was gone, someone put a flyer in the bowl, and I pointed out the dings) so he got the managers approval to let me take it home while a new one was special ordered. I know it it a 2000 because I checked out the serial number w/ the Ovation Web site. I would like my next Ovation to be a 12 string - They sound so beautiful. Dom | ||
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| Strummin12 |
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Joined: August 2002 Posts: 623 Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Perhaps you might consider making an offer on THAT custom legend AS WELL. They might be eager to get rid of it! If they're willing to loan it out, it doesn't seem like they care much of what might happen to it! Maybe it's just been in his shop too long and is willing to give you a deep discount on it, to get rid of it. Could you live with the dings? The other stuff is repairable, and probably really cheaply. A second "backup" guitar of one you already love is nice to have, especially if you gig. Break a string, and you can grab the second to make it through the set. John | ||
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| Glockaxis |
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Joined: August 2003 Posts: 27 Location: Palm Desert, CA | Hey that's a good idea, I was mulling over the exact same thing. I can live with the dings. What do you think a reasonable offer would be including tax (CA=7.75%)? Dom | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15664 Location: SoCal | California tax is now 8 1/4%. Thanks you Gov. Davis. | ||
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| Strummin12 |
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Joined: August 2002 Posts: 623 Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I don't know what a fair price would be for him to even consider-it all depends on how bad it's beat, and what his circumstances are. Just make an offfer. I'd start with half (or a little less) than new and see how he responds. If he's a small shop, and that guitar's been there quite a while, he might be really, really eager to move it to get some other inventory in. He would probably be thrilled that someone is even remotely interested in it! Johnny | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Dom, welcome and that is a great story. I too join in the praise of the Custom Legend. It has always been a beautiful guitar, with the classic Ovation look. To bad the new ones don't have the carved bridge and truss rod cover anymore. I know the truss rod cover went away with the kaman bar, but the carved bridge would still look great...Paul Hebert | ||
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| Glockaxis |
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Joined: August 2003 Posts: 27 Location: Palm Desert, CA | 8 1/4!!!! Dam that guy. Did you hear the latest--Bill Clinton is his political advisor! I'll try the 1/2 approach and see from there. I also loved the carved bridge and wish it had stayed---oh well, like you said it still is a beauty. Dom | ||
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| Mario |
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Joined: April 2003 Posts: 557 Location: Burbank | Hey, what store is that? If it doesn't work out for you, maybe I will go over there and beat up on him a bit. Either you or I would be doing them a favor by taking that guitar off their hands. Good luck. | ||
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| stonebobbo |
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Joined: August 2002 Posts: 8307 Location: Tennessee | I'm actually surprised that Mr. Clinton is not working Mary Carey's ... errr ... campaign. | ||
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| rx7dr |
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Joined: June 2003 Posts: 16 Location: Long Island, NY | congrats on the custom legend... your story reminded me of my experience... had a beautiful sunburst CL12 which I foolishly left at my ex wife's house... seems she accidently bartered it for some work around the house.. Got some money together and went to look for a replacement.... bottom line... got another CL12 (natural finish this time) after playing everything in the store ( big store too!!) Dave | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | Just a confession, my wife and I took over a school board recall in Poway after the teachers union elected school board fired the superintendent and announced that they were switching to alternative education, i. e., no education (as an example, My wife found our daughter on a visit to a classroom, cowering under her coat to escape the cacaphony in the classroom so she could study), we collected enough signatures to call the election (and it is not easy at all), we were totally outspent in the election by the teachers union, who campaigned in the schools at our expense, and we lost by 200, 200! votes. The next election defeated the people in question decisively and elected a fairly moderate school board. A moderate school board, as usual, capitualated to the teachers union, and we left, knowing that CA will never be able to educate a child. We were proven right. Bailey PS A footnote, one of our opponents hired by the teachers union was a lawyer (Micheal Greer) up for a judgeship, my wife called Gov Brown's aide (Gray Davis), and objected because he was involved with the teachers union, Gray Davis postponed the appointment, later we learned that the lawyer was appointed as a judge and was later convicted and sent to jail for corruption, I personally had some public debates with that sonofabitch, Judge Greer, and he deserves to rot in hell for his transgressions, as all of it was to enrich people, and none was to educate our children. Nuff said | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10582 Location: NJ | Originally posted by Bailey: Just a confession, my wife and I took over a school board recall in Poway after the teachers union elected school board fired the superintendent and announced that they were switching to alternative education, i. e., no education (as an example, My wife found our daughter on a visit to a classroom, cowering under her coat to escape the cacaphony in the classroom so she could study), we collected enough signatures to call the election (and it is not easy at all), we were totally outspent in the election by the teachers union, who campaigned in the schools at our expense, and we lost by 200, 200! votes. The next election defeated the people in question decisively and elected a fairly moderate school board. A moderate school board, as usual, capitualated to the teachers union, and we left, knowing that CA will never be able to educate a child. We were proven right. Bailey PS A footnote, one of our opponents hired by the teachers union was a lawyer (Micheal Greer) up for a judgeship, my wife called Gov Brown's aide (Gray Davis), and objected because he was involved with the teachers union, Gray Davis postponed the appointment, later we learned that the lawyer was appointed as a judge and was later convicted and sent to jail for corruption, I personally had some public debates with that sonofabitch, Judge Greer, and he deserves to rot in hell for his transgressions, as all of it was to enrich people, and none was to educate our children. Nuff said I spent 14 years in public education in one of the worst schools in the state, with the worst academic and incident records in the state in a city that often beats Gary Ind for worst city in the country. IF it was not for the union, I would have lasted 3 years and would not have my pension and benefits. There are many good teachers that are strapped by the system so that they cannot make a difference because they are not allowed. I know this as a fact since I lived it. To generalize and call all unions bad or to stereotype as "moderate", "conservative" or "liberal" is just careless. I would challenge you to last a week in the school I taught in. I saw many substitutes walk out of the building at 10am saying they had it don't worry about paying me. The problems with the schools are more deeply rooted than "teachers are bad". they are rooted in an economic system that rewards districts that do not perform with more money, a welfare system that perpetuates the myth that education is worthless, the decline of the two parent family and the necessity for both parents to work in two parent families. Sorry to get on a soap box here, and I know it is not always the case but if it was not for my union I would be in deep financial trouble as I tried to fight for my first amendment rights. If it was not for my union I would not have my benefits and pension, no matter how meager they are. The system is not perfect. Teacher salaries are HORRIFIC considering the scope of their job and responsibilities. (I don't want to hear about teachers who have been there 30 years on the top of the scale, lets talk about the majority who are in the 1-8 year range, that is about the average before someone decides they are tired of working 2 jobs and want a decent salary from one job.) Teachers are an easy target, we pay their salaries, they are public servants, WE ALL HAD A TEACHER IN OUR LIFE THAT MADE OUR LIFE A LIVING HELL, so as a result it is an easy target. Unfortunately it is not an easy job. Don't talk to me about trying to educate kids in the classroom, I tried and my life was made such a living hell I got sick over it. So bad that I had to quit. Tell me you would be that dedicated to your job????? do me a favor write your congressman or Arnold. I understand your frustrations but there are many TEACHERS out there fighting the good fight. | ||
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| Strummin12 |
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Joined: August 2002 Posts: 623 Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Al, All I can say is "dang"! Johnny (My mom's a teacher, so I know how hard they work!) | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | Right on Al. Sorry to hear it's just as bad in the US as it is over here. I worked full time as a music technology lecturer for 5 years, over the last 2 I've cut back to a day & a half. I love teaching but can't stand the bullshit, politics & pen-pushing, or for that matter putting in 60+ hours a week & getting paid for 40. The government and education establisment management are not interested in education, they are interested in meeting targets and aquiring funding, students & teachers are last on their list of priorities. Don't get me started. | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15664 Location: SoCal | I'm only going to post once on this subject then get back to guitars. In the public school systems, you can't just send your kids to school and think they'll get an education. You have to be involved in the school and be ready to help with homework. You have to let the teacher know that you are a partner with the teacher in your kids schooling. If you can't make that sort of commitment, then don't have kids. Now, having said that, and understanding that I've been self employed most of my life, I have to say that I hate unions, and in California, the teachers union has been very destructive to education. The union fights against vouchers, they fight to never have a teacher fired (we have a lot of bad teachers that are protected by the unions), and they've allowed the school system here to get very top heavy (great in a woman, bad in a bereauocracy (sp?)). On the other side of the equation, parents who sue schools and teachers over small disputes are handcuffing the schools from maintaining control over the classrooms. It's an amazing mess. But it takes me back to my original point, that for a kid to get a good education, parents have to be involved. Then it works for everybody. | ||
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| amstphd |
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Joined: January 2003 Posts: 146 Location: Germantown, MD | I'm a community college professor; my wife teaches elementary school special education. In criticizing the American public education system, it's important to remember that no culture in the world has ever had the guts to offer everyone a full, free, and appropriate education at public expense. Every other nation I know of tries to start weeding some students out at a fairly early age. In most countries, I probably couldn't have gone to college, let alone finished my Ph.D. with a 4.0 average. And in recent years, Americans seem to have bought into the idea that some schools and teachers choose not to do their jobs, overlooking the role that parents, school boards, administrators and, at some point, students themselves play in the educational equation. Granted, teachers' unions participate in elections, supporting candidates and ballot initiatives, but about all they can do is offer the public an educators' perspective on the candidates and the issues. The individual voters then decide how to vote. School board members know this, and they act accordingly. This spring, when our district had to figure out how to make up for the days lost during snowstorms last winter. The union wanted to add days by shortening spring break and using a couple of teacher workdays for instruction. Parents wanted to add to the length of each school day for six weeks, even though in the middle schools and high schools, that just meant lengthening the last-period class. The school board, facing an election this year, sided with the parents. And I've heard state legislators tell the teachers' union representatives that the teachers are irrelevant in elections. Before I get off my soapbox, if it hadn't been for my high school music teacher, I never would have learned enough theory to teach myself to play guitar. More important, he had two rules in his choruses that my fellow chorus members and I still report that we live by 36 years after graduation: "You are not permitted to tell me 'you can't' do anything in my chorus; you have to try at least once," and "If you're going to make a mistake in here, make it loud so that I can show you how to correct it and you can learn from it." Peace, John | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | Paul, you are talking about good parenting. The kids who do well are generally the ones who have support from their families, but the best parenting skills in the world will only partially compensate for a fucked-up education system. I have been involved in education in one way or another for almost 20 years and in my experience the number of "bad" teachers out there is negligible compared to those who care pasionately about what they do & care about the kids in their charge. Sadly it's always the good ones who throw in the towel. A guy who works with me at the college I teach at had his ass saved by the union. A 16 year-old female student who he was giving a hard time to because she had not handed in any work for a year accused him of assault. Despite witness statements from class members saying she was lying, the management of the college, in an attempt to avoid grief from the parents and be seen as whiter than white intended to fire him, rather than support a good teacher & ditch a bad student | ||
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| Tony Calman |
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Joined: August 2003 Posts: 4619 Location: SoCal | First of all, I support the individual teacher that is dedicated and professional. However, in California we have considerable problems including Davis (up for recall) who has pandered to every special interest, to include the education unions. Result, too many poor teachers and low academic results. I own an agency that provides education-based behavioral programs - for juveniles and adults assigned by probation and the courts. This weekend, we started: for adult: anger mgt, theft and four repeat offender traffic programs (16hrs) for juveniles: two theft/shoplifting and three assault/anger programs We also do adult assault/battery, juvenile drug/alcohol, juvenile Success in School, and adult parenting. I see the problems that my relatives have to cope with in their schools/classroom. By the way, in my programs the offender pays, no taxpayer dollars! However, in this county we have administration and teachers at odds. School administration attempts to make changes/improvement with the union fighting them all of the way; teachers place the blame on the administration and the need for additional spending, yet I have never seen the union or any teachers in this county take responsibility for the failure of our of students. Take a look at our spending per student and compare it with private schools. Even taking into consideration needs such as special education, there is a major difference in cost per student and achievement. Juveniles coming into our programs come into our programs thinking they can act as they do in school - lying on floor with back to the group, coming back late from break, language, etc. Not! Maybe the administration has the ultimate responsibility, but also the responsibility of the teacher in the classroom. Yet, the administration can't remove the bad teacher who is protected by the union. There has to be a balance. We are losing our good teachers because they will not put up with the problems in the classroom. Poor or disinterested teachers are protected. Programs that are ineffective are difficult to drop or change because it threatens the members - either to identify the non-performers or because it my result in reassignment to another program or school. The many good teachers understand that education of our youth is the goal. Unfortunately, many in this county and state don't understand that. For them, it is the fault of others. | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | Great discusssion from all perspectives. Just a reminder that my wife and I ran a computer school that was very successful in job training results and my daughter is a high school teacher with a masters. I view the teacher's union as the same type of people and attitudes as the school administrators. Since they, the unions, have elected the school boards for the last 30 years, most administrators are a product of their power, teachers are not very high on their priority list notwithstanding some examples here where they have intervened to help a teacher. Their is a flow of tax money into the school systems that resembles the output of a diesel fire pump, and the union makes sure it goes in to the right pockets, many of which are not on the trousers of ordinary teachers, but in the suit coats of wealthy administrators. Little goes to the classroom. Bailey | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10582 Location: NJ | Did anyone ever think that the union can protect a good teacher that is getting grief or being targeted or discriminated against??????????? Unions certainly get a bad rap these days but I will tell you as a fact that if it was not for my union I would have been financially ruined because of medical expenses and attorney fees. Unions do not only protect the incompetent but they protect the good also. They protect those that fight the administration to do the best job for their students. I was railroaded from being an exemplary teacher with excellent reviews to having negative evaluations all because I did not believe in the status quo, and required that the kids do some work, and demanded the proper materials for my classes not to mention that I was both a victim of sex and race discrimmination. Teaching in private schools or tech schools vs the public shool are two totally different animals. It is like playing electric guitar and acoustic guitar, both are guitar but they are very different. Public schools are required by law to take any student through their doors. They cannot pick and choose they cannot tell a kid that has a history to get out. I remember judges sending kids back to the school so they can have a normal childhood. Guess what all they did was disrupt class and teach criminal behavior to other students and make the teacher's lives a living hell. I took mace, pepper spray, hammer, bullets, knives, razor knives, clubs, sticks with nails, brass knuckles etc off of kids I taught. TELL ME THE LAST TIME YOU HAD TO DO THAT TO ONE OF YOUR CO WORKERS. ARe their bad teacher certainly. ARe their bad plummers? policemen, cable instlalers hot dog vendors, priests, rabbis, carpenters, authors, actors and even MUSICIANS?????? yes. Why do we bash teaching then? because it is an easy target. Standardized testing and education is NOT the answer. I had a combined 740 on my SAT scores. I should not have even went to college but I did and I got 3 degrees. SO what does that say? Not everyone tests well, and there must be alternatives. To you parents, send to the classroom and educable child. i.e. a child that is prepared, fed, has supplies, is well rested, has assignments completed and you will see a child that learns in almost ANY situation. Unfortunately we have bred a culture of individuals who not only hate their teachers but now are going to take it out on the teachers of their kids without even suspecting that their own child me be at fault. Of course not it we never have faults of our own and why not project them onto the easiest target we can "the teacher". I have seen teachers that were junkies and sex offenders, x cons etc. But this is not the majority people. many districts have drug testing and every teacher has to have a background check. Are there people that are burned out? of course but you find that in every profession. I devoted a large portion of my life to the education of others and spent countless hours in classrooms getting my credentials. This is not a flippant subject with me. The saddest part is that I cannot continue to work in my chosen field. It was a huge part of my life for many years and it is difficult to let it go. | ||
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