|
|
Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338
Location: SE Michigan | Before everyone starts flaming me, believe me I really wanted to by an Adamas. Let me start by saying I live near Detroit, I visited 3 major Ovation dealers and called every dealer listed on the Ovation web site for my area (about 6 dealers), NOT ONE DEALER had an Adamas in stock. Come on! Detroit is like the 7th or 8th largest city in this country and not one Adamas to be found? Further more, when I asked dealers if they expected any shipments soon, the usual answer was Adamas models are special order only. Most dealers had not even heard of the LX models. Finally, suffering from acute GAS and full wallet syndrome, I drove 100 miles to Elderly Instruments in Lansing Michigan. Elderly had two Adamas models, a 6591 SMT, (ROUND SOUNDHOLE) NATURAL GRAPHITE (SHOPWORN) ($1095), and a OVATION W597 CVT COBALT BLUE ($1533).
The 6591 was about the plainest guitar I have ever seen. It had a dimple-scratch to the left of the sound hole. It looked maybe like the case lid latch-tang hit it. It played nicely, but had some buzzing up near the 12th fret. It must have poorly leveled frets, because it only buzzed on or around the 12th fret. Probably could be fixed by some fret leveling, but not what you want to see out of a new high-end guitar. It’s plainness was compounded by a very thin plastic looking rosette, the whole thing reminded me of one of those cheap plastic Sears-Roebuck guitars you got for Christmas when you were 8 years old. I will however say that to me, from the drivers seat, it sounded as good as the CVT model, I don’t thing the big sound hole changed the sound that much. Maybe someday this guitar will find someone to love it (maybe a blind guitarist).
The CVT was very nice, the neck was great and it played nicely all the way up the fretboard with no buzzing. It sounded good, but did not have the killer unplugged sound I was expecting. To be honest, it didn't sound that much different from my 1717 Legend. It did have the unique sonic characteristics that people talk about, but it wasn’t so different that it really stood out. Someone had mentioned that the Adamas seem a little quiet to the player, but louder out front. I agree, everything I read led me to expect to have my hair blown back like a big dreadnaught, but it wasn't that loud from the playing position. I think all Ovations share this trait, probably the parabolic shape of the bowl. The bad thing for this guitar was on the treble side of the fret board where it attaches to the top, the seam was open about 1/16 of an inch and you could see all the glue in it. I thought that was pretty sloppy for a $1500 guitar. If this guitar was priced around $1000, I would have bought it, it just could not compete with a lot of other guitars in the $1500 price range.
There were no other high-end Ovations to play. So I started looking at Martins. They had more Martins than you could shake a stick at. They had all the different woods, different body styles, different neck profiles, different price ranges. I couldn’t believe it, but Elderly actually had many $5000+ Martins out on the display floor with the cheap ones, people just picking them up and playing them, (I like Elderly’s style). This is not to mention dozens and dozens of Taylors, Gibsons, and many other makes.
I ended up bringing home a Martin OM-21 I had already decided to buy it, and asked if they had another exact model to compare it to, and yes they did. I compared the two closely and I picked the best; $1380 with case. The OM-21 just sounds fantastic and has a great neck with great action. It even smells terrific, all that rosewood. It is a joy to play and the sound will only get better as it opens up with age. I was looking for a guitar that was comfortable to play with great unplugged sound, and the OM-21 hits the mark. True, it is a bit on the fragile side, but it earns it’s need for babying by providing easy playability and outstanding sound. This guitar just sings.
So I know I’ll get a ration of S**T from all the Martin haters on this board, but the reason I wrote all this is because I know some of the leaders at Ovation read these posts. It almost seems to me that Ovation does not want to be in the guitar business. The Ovation and Adamas web sites are out of date. The dealers don’t stock or seem the least bit enthusiastic about the products. When you rarely see an Ovation add in a magazine, it’s for Q or some other weirdness that they are not really even selling. And after a protracted search, when I finally tracked down the high-end Ovation guitar I have been lusting after, it was disfigured with an open glue seem. That’s why Martin got my money. I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for Ovations though.
P.S. I played one of those all-graphite CA guitars…WOW, for a synthetic guitar, it really sounded great. If it weren’t so ugly and cheap looking I would have bought it. It had a really cheesy looking rosette that looked like some kind of hologram or something. It would be the perfect all-weather white water rafting guitar. If CA figures out how to pretty them up a bit Ovation will be selling even fewer graphite guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 420
Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | Well I know what you mean about finding an Adamas to try. Same situation here. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | There are nothing wrong with Martins I own two a d 35 and a d35 12S
>>> I couldn’t believe it, but Elderly actually had many $5000+ Martins out on the display floor with the cheap ones, people just picking them up and playing them, (I like Elderly’s style). This is not to mention dozens and dozens of Taylors, Gibsons, and many other makes>>>
that is probably the reason why the guitars you played had wear. It is a double edge sword People want to play the guitars but then when it comes down to pulling the trigger they complain if there is a mark on them. Unfortunately it is a fact of the retail biz. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | No flame here. You did your shopping. It sounds like the system failed you.
I agree with Alpep's suggestion to ask your local Music Store to stock what you want. At best it will still take a while but it has to start somewhere.
I bet that the M****n fans don't have as cool a website as we do though. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Martin makes good stuff and I'm sure you will enjoy your guitar. And let's face it - it's a shit load easier to find/buy a Martin than an Adamas or high end Ovation. You tried harder than most people would ever do. I obviously love some of the Ovation stuff, but I think it's turned in to somewhat of a cult brand. i.e. No major pros play them, no artist relations, no real marketing to speak of, difficult to find the good models, etc. It's sad. Furtunately there are avenues like eBay where with a luttle effort one can still find a ncie sounding vintage Ovation. Some of the new models would indicate that Ovation might be getting things back to basics and start paying attention to how the damn things sound again. Hopefully the suits at Kaman take the choke hold off them. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338
Location: SE Michigan | >>>>that is probably the reason why the guitars you played had wear. It is a double edge sword People want to play the guitars but then when it comes down to pulling the trigger they complain if there is a mark on them. Unfortunately it is a fact of the retail biz.<<<<
Actually, that isnt quite true, I dont see how unlevel frets or a big open glue seem would be caused by people playing them. the big scratch on the one looks like a case bite, not sure how that could have happened in a showroom. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Brian
Nothing against Martins, seen lots of good ones. But, I do have something against a music store that puts a top line Ovation out without the simple adjustments that would avoid fret buzz, most guitars need a little adjustment after they are shipped. I suspect the store has the same bias against Ovations that the rest of the stores that don't stock Adamas have. It seems as if Ovations are like the dreaded relative that comes to visit and must be tolerated. Maybe Al's suggestion of calling and asking to see an LX or something isn't a bad idea.
We don't need to flame you as the messenger, we need to flame those dealers that won't stock Adamas, a blowtorch to the ass would seem warranted.
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I am assuming from your post that both Adamas guitars at Elderly were used, and not just "floor worn". Al is certainly correct about the double-edge sword, but the wear you found seems a little in excess. I am more disturbed, but not surprised that not only did you not find a new Adamas in such a large market, but that many places had not heard of the LX series. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 420
Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | While we are on the Martin subject...did you compare the OM 21 to an HD 28? If so, what was your opinion? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338
Location: SE Michigan | Both of the Adamas's mentioned were brand new guitars. The Center-hole was advertised as "shop-worn" because of the scratch.
I did not look at the HD-28 because I really didnt want a dreadnaught. I hear it is an terrific guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Brian:
You bring up some very very good points. I've often noticed that in the Guitar Centers here in southern CA, there are a ton of Martins, Taylors, Gibsons, etc, but maybe one or two high end Ovations, and maybe 5-6 Celebs, and that's it. And the salesmen will invariably point you towards the other guitars, not the Ovations.
With the LX series, Ovation is making the first step towards building a competitive acoustic guitar. If they do come out with the slothead Adamas, that will be another step. But I believe that they have to move in that direction if they want to be competitive in today's acoustic market.
You're not going to get an flame on your post. It's too well thought out and logical. I, for one, couldn't argue with it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Brian, i was also at a few guitar stores today and played several Martins and "wow" most of them are excellent guitars..I played a CEO4 and a d42 that got me thinking about buying a couple of Martins..I also played a Larrivee D60,a santa cruz and a Tacoma that were very,very good..I think there is something to these wood guitars.They may catch on!!
It seems that guitar makers are really building great instruments lately.The quality is high and the sound is very good..Here is where i am really impressed though.The cheap guitar builders are also doing a wonderful job of building quality guitars that sound great for the money.Here are a couple that i could not believe
Try a guitar called "Sunlite"..They are drum makers who are getting into the guitar business,they are building a solid top model with mahogany back and sides,bound body front and back,bound neck.It sounds better that some guitars costing over $1000.I could not believe it.The workmanship and quality is amazing.They cost dealers under $100 and sell for around $189.00..It is an incredible value..I played several and all sounded great.The only thing that i did not like about them is the cheap headstock logo and cheap paper label..Try one of these guitars..They are good.
The other guitar is called "Strunal".THey are european violin makers.THe largest string factory in europe.THey are also getting into guitar building.I tried a new prototype model.Mini jumbo body with solid top,maple binding,rosewood back and sides..Again amazing qulity and sound.They cost dealers under $200 and they sell for about $300..Try one if you can find them.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Sam, What did you think of the CEO4? I played a CEO5 (not sure how it differs from the 4) and was blown away. 12 fret slothead of course. This was an amazing guitar and worth every bit of the $2200 sticker price. I agree with your comment about some great sounding cheap guitars. My son bought a Baby Taylor for $320 which came with one of the nicest gig bags I have ever seen. The guitar plays and sounds great for the money. Looks like there is some great stuff at the low end and the high end. Hopefully Ovations new products carve out some market share in the middle. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Warren, OH | Last Sunday, when I went the Cleveland Guitar Center to play a CVT, I talked at length to one of the salesmen about some of the changes that Ovation is making and that the LX line should be a big jump forward. I asked him to play the Adamas so I could hear how it sounded when I was in front of the guitar. I think it may have been the first time he played it and he appeared to be pleasantly surprized.
I was really disappointed in the nearby Sam Ash store (since it was an hour drive, I figured I'd kill two birds). I called them in advance the day before and was told that they had some Celebrities and Elites. The only thing I saw were a couple of Celebrities - not even a Celebrity Deluxe was available. And they did not stock the Adamas - it was special order only! Maybe in their defense they sold several the night before and their stock was low pending orders after the NAMM show. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Dave, the CEO4(basically a gibson J45 copy) is a better sounding J45 guitar than a gibson J45..I was very impressed by the sound..I could have bought it for $1080 including the case but i held off because i did not love the sunburst finish with the orange color in the middle..I understand what they were trying to acheave with the finish but it just did not "rock my world"..I also tried a D42 that was great..They had a CEO5 but it sold a day earlier before i could try it..It was used and marked at $1500.Im not sure what it sold for... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | . . jeez, . . when I saw the "title" of this thread, I thought it was someone mimicking Clarence White and shot the top of their Martin with a BB gun. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | I agree. No revolting peasants with pitchforks and flaming torches here (well, maybe a few revolting peasants)...
This thread really should be forwarded to Mother's Marketing Department!
I recently went down to the Guitar Center in San Bernardino, CA and, as predicted, there were 2 Legends way up on the wall and at least 10 Celebrity models within easy reach. No Adamas, no Elite, no Balladeers, no LX, ... nothing.
The "Expensive"room had Taylors,Gibsons, Martins and Tak's all within shoulder height and available for playing.
The Ovations were in the noisy room and I needed to find the salesman to get a stool and take the guitar down for me just to play. He knew I was just snooping and had no intention to buy and thus he wasn't too happy.
In my opinion the GC would not bother to special order different Ovations just because one person asked to "test play" one. They would order it if you put some money down on the purchase...
Marketing? wazzupp? I too would love to test an Adamas, LX or Elite, but I'm not going to "trek" in order to do so....
How can this get to the Marketing Department for consideration???
tim |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 420
Location: On the beach in Southwest Florida | In the world of ARCHERY, some manufactures haul a large trailer around to their dealers with all those things dealers don't stock but what people want. People have the schedule of when the "trailer is coming", come see for themselves & decide to buy or not.
Perhaps Ovation could do the same. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | On this subject
When I was a callous youth just out of the Army, I was hired by Pittsburgh glass and paint company as a salesman to service the northeastern corner of Ohio, selling to lumberyards and hardware stores in all the little and big hamlets in a 3 or 4 county area. I was paid a small salary but could only make money from sales and especially, selling a new dealership. Hustle was the only way to cover the wear on my new 1957 Ford Fairlane, so I hustled. What kind of incentive does Ovation offer their reps? I suspect a nice salary based on longivity, and no ass kicking to insure that the music stores in their territory carries a good stock of guitars and sells some every week.
It is very easy as a sales person to cut the visits to the stores to avoid the effort required to make sales if the checks come in anyway. All these stories of Ovation neglect at the stores tells me there is neglect in the area reps motivation. Usually it is sell or pack up and let somebody else do it who can. War, survival of the fittest, burn up the highway and kick ass. Some of our members could fill that kind of slot from what I've heard.
The alternative is to set at home and wonder why nobody can find your brand, even though the store owners love you cause you're absent. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Normally I'm the first on the Marketing Slamwagon, but this year things are different for Ovation. There really is something to crow about with the guitars and their direction. Sure maybe if one or two people go to a GC to ask for a guitar they wont order it. But if 50 people do, you can bet they will order them. Same with the smaller stores, if there is interest, enough interest, they will get them, but it has to come from patrons. There are plenty of stores that sell the USA models, but you would have to be lucky to see them in the store. I know a store that carries the high end Ovations, but they rarely have any when I have been there because they get sold so quickly. I'm sure most of the West Coast stores and reps know about he LX guitars, but I wonder how many of the East Coast stores do. Summer NAMM isn't until August, so unless they are very proactive, they will only hear about the LX guitars from customers. Oh sure, their sales rep will spend some time on the subject, but will the store ordering person be listening. He already knows what he can sell, and if no one has asked for an LX, than the sales rep can talk and talk to deaf ears. Also, that sales rep is also selling Takamine, LP, Gretch etc etc etc etc. There is only so much time a person can spend on the phone and Kaman sells several major high-volume lines.
Bottom line, instead of picking on marketing and reps who from what I see do their job, lets start acting like fans and get a little fanatical. When BOC released their latest studio album a couple of years ago fans were in Best Buy (the GC of electronics) and DEMANDING that the sales people go into the store room and unpack the CD's. If for some reason they didn't have them yet, that sat there while the clerk filled out the request form. Now as stated for a guitar, they would want money-down, but if many people asked for the same guitar... they would order a few. It's just good buisness. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338
Location: SE Michigan | Thanks for all the comments on this post, but I want to drive home the following point: Over and over again would-be guitar players are told "play it before buying". I might take a chance on a $500 guitar and order it unseen, but when we are talking $1000+ guitars I am much less willing to take a chance and buy something unseen or unplayed.
If I can't find high-end Ovations to test drive before buying they will not earn my dollar. Meanwhile Taylor, Martin, Tacoma, etc, manage to stuff the shops with their products, waiting to be sampled by guitar shoppers. I leave you with the observation that it seems to me Ovation does not want to be in the guitar business, or at least not the high-end guitar business.
And a final thought; why don't we see many Artists playing Ovations? We all know thet are great guitars. I have to think the marketing (promotional) department at Ovation is slacking in this area as well. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | . . . sorry Bill, but I gotta beat ya' to it . .
(click.) :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 231
| I've played Martin guitars for over twenty years, and have owned some really great ones. I just sold my 71 D-28, and bought a new Blueridge BR-70, which is about as close as you can get to the Martin sound for a fraction of the price. I also own a HD-28 that is without a doubt the best sounding guitar I've ever owned. I still own Ovation guitars, and my 80's Legend is probably my all time favorite acoustic. I just wish they still made the Legend series without electronics, and with the deep bowl. I guess I'm a Vintage Ovation fan, because the new stuff just doesn't do much for me. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I just don't like where Ovation is going.
Mike |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Mike, before you write off new Ovations, try an LX. My favorite guitar is a 68 Deluxe Balladeer and the LX probably comes closer to that sound than any other Ovation I've played. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 231
| Thanks Paul, I'm really not familiar with the LX, but I'll check it out. |
|
| |
Pulled the trigger on a Martin OM-21
