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Location: Rego Park, NY, | My son is currently using the Alfred Method Books in his guitar class. I need to know what else I can use to teach him and make him lose interest.
I need to know what I can do for myself. I am mostly unsucessfully self taught. I took lessons for a year when I was 9 years old and have actually played very basic parts in a small garage band and have also helped play guitar for a friends church group. After visiting
the Mother Ship I am now motivated to make up for all the time that I have procrastinated. If anyone has any suggestions for my son or myself please let me know.
Phil
"Official_OFC_Camera_Guy"
Or
"Oriental_OFC_Camera_Guy" |
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Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | First: I'm not qualified to give this advice.
Second: I'm gonna give it anyway! :D
1) Get the best guitar you can for him. Quality guitars are generally easier to play.
If a guitar is hard to play or sounds bad, then the student won't spend very much time on it and it will slide into oblivion.
If a guitar is a joy to play, then he will spend more time on it; he will improve; the guitar will sound better; he will spend more time.... you get the idea.
2) Make the guitar FUN!!! If playing music isn't fun then it will not continue... make it a father/son/time/together thing... share with each other, laugh at each other, but have FUN! :D
enjoy!
tim |
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Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Find music he'll want to play! If it wasn't for the "Cat Steven's Greatest Hits" and "John Denver" easy songbooks I'm not sure where I'd be today.
The next most important is to "jam" with others. |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Hey Woody,
Did you ever figure out what a "Mona Bone Jakon" is? :confused: ..... I also wore out my Cat Stevens book...
tim |
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Location: Rego Park, NY, | Besides Greensleeves, Morning has broken was the first full song I learned for my friend's church group. Was I on the right track but didn't
know it?
Phil |
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Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | Phil,
Here is a good site that has a lot of Church music chorded for guitar. Most of it is pretty easy and works quite well:
Gospel Guitar Music Site
... have FUN with the guitars!
tim |
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Location: NJ | There's also a lot of good guitar courses available on DVD. The luxury of these are that they're "chaptered" making it very easy to repeat sections at will until they "sink in". |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Thanks Tim,
I'll try to throufgtogether my short list of lyric/chord sites and reciprocate. |
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Posts: 1792
Location: Rego Park, NY, | Tim
Thanks for the info. But I played for a small church group when I was at St. John's Univ. when they were still called the Redmen over 20 years ago. While I was there I played an intramural volleyball game against what was called
"THE JOCK TEAM" who I didn't know I took pictures also. When the pictures came out I realized the really tall guy was Bill Wittington who later played with the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan. The other guy was Chris Mullen.
As you can guess we lost or game against them but we played well.
Phil |
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Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | Here's another:
Cowpie Song Corral
A lot more varied....
tim |
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Posts: 648
Location: Florida | ditto the above... plus
C F G, followed thereafter by Am
What a PITA doing the Alfred method after a bit. Its "ok" to get the basics, but you lose the joy of guitar playing in the meantime. Keep with Alfred, suppliment at home an equal part of strummin' to the oldies and favorites.
Find out what he likes to play and see if you can work that out with a few simple chords - sing alongs are best of course.
Take the opportunity to learn and play with him from time to time. No, I take that back. MAKE the opportunity, don't slough it off. |
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Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | I agree that you have to keep it fun!
If you are Self Taught and you want to pass along to him basic chords so that he can develop an ear and learn to play what he wants.
Get him a chord book and start teaching him chords. all he music stuff is great, but you'd be amazed at how fast kids pick up on chords and then they tend to run off and pass you. My nephew(who just turned 21) Got an acoustic guitar as a gift from my dad. He included a Mel Bay Chord book.
My brother knew just enough to teach him some runs and the next thing we all knew he was playing tab and playing in a band around houston hot spots. He was 15 when he recieved his first guitar and within a year and ahalf he was playing circles around me.
Just a thought, It may not be the advised method for everyone. But it works pretty well for some. |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | Part of the reason I don't take students is that most of them do NOT want to learn how to read or learn any theory they just want to learn how to play the latest Korn or limp bisquick tune.
I started to play when I was in the first grade (I know It does not show at all) and I am still learning theory, I probably will never learn it all. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Al,
Music offers a lifetime of joy and learning. It's a work in progress sort of thing.So if it takes a lifetime , we all recieve the joy along the way that music has to offer.By the way, I thought you did a great job at the jam. I enjoyed hearing you. |
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Location: Central Oregon | One thing I've found helpful Phil, is to find out what kind of music the student already has in their head. Something they can hum or whistle. If you can teach them to play something they know it makes it easier, & I think more enjoyable. I don't think it matters what it is. It can be House of the Rising Sun, Louis Louis or Amazing Grace, doesn't seem to matter as long as they know it in their heads & you either know it or can figure it out.
Another thing that will help is for both of you to play with other people as much as possible.
I've told everyone I've ever tried to teach-I admit to being an untrained clod that can't even read tab, let alone real sheet music. I know the names of the strings, quite a few chords & the chromatic scale but that's it. End of my music theory.
But, if I can hear it in my head, I can more often than not learn it fairly quickly.
I wish I knew more about music theory but every time I try to learn about it I slide back to my freshman year in college, 1966, in Dr. Wee's 8:00 AM economics class..... Ten minutes of that in a theatre seat & I was a goner.. Borrrrinnggg
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Location: Oakton, VA | My teenage daughter was having fun learning riffs from Internet tab sites and I didn't want to kill off that enthusiasm by interjecting parental advice. (The key word here is "teenage".)
However, when she asked me the difference between an E-flat and an E-minor, I realized she needed some theoretical foundation she could draw upon in her self-study.
I bought a 18" by 12" white board and some colorful markers at the office supply store and hung the board on her bedroom door. Each day after school she'd find a snippet of info on the white board, along with a question from a previous day. Nothing threatening... took far more time to devise the day's musical angle then to digest it.
This exercise gave us a common musical vocabulary. Moreover, it became a source of communication between us that I hadn't expected. She looked forward to the daily exercise; I enjoyed her feedback.
The exercise died out during the summer hiatus. But she still has fun with her guitar, which is, by the way, a 1972 Ovation Balladeer.
-Tom |
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Posts: 2487
| Hi I am not a teacher myself although I have shown many friends the basics! Take this for what it is worth;
EVERYONE, no matter what instrument it is they chose to learn, is self taught. Lessons are no more than a person who knows the tricks walking a student through the process! The Student learns only through there own determination and desire!
I saw someone answer that the music they want to learn is important! this is a Biggie! Let him or her try and learn the songs they enjoy! I would have given up if I had to learn the Burl Ives songs in the Book my Dad bought me so many years ago (sorry Dad) although I did use the chord chart in the back for some time! A lesson is good to get started but for my money a waste of good cash if it a weekly thing! The Student should be able to understand the lesson and practice it until he or she has it down cold no matter how long it takes then go to the next step! even if it takes two months! Find a teacher that does not need the weekly paycheck to teach!
After the fingers harden up from all the sloppy play and pain from the strings they will see that the fingering is easier and easier! it is only a matter of how much time they spend learning the muscle memory their fingers need.
Start with light strings until they have a good sound with basic chords... Then give them heavy strings ! When they can make chords sound good on those go back to medium or at least a lighter string and there fingers will fly! Randy |
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| Side note! I read Al's response My method was good for me but I am "crippled" to this day never learning to read music ! I get through it just from my experience! but I can't just jump in and play. Very often I need a few days of hard,hard work to come up with the scale or the chord changes to a new song ! I learn quick but it is not the way to go in the long run! I always have to do an end run the long way around to come up with the same results that a "music reader", who is also an acomplished guitarist, can do!
Example! I am learning some of Dave Mathews stuff and old Yes Music if I did not have a DVD and a video tape machine to see These guy's play it would take me weeks! If could read music I could come close right out of the gate! and work in the extras later! Good luck and keep at it! Randy |
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Location: NJ | My current keyboard player is very good with theory.
This knowledge got me out of a few jams. Some days when the synapses are just not firing I look over to him and we figure out the relative minor or major and then I can continue with a solo that sorta works.
Many people dismiss theory and "book learning" as boring and useless. Thank God there are some people that do not think it is useless and they study and can read the music of the great composers of our past.
Guitar seems to be the only instrument where all these short cuts take place. We have Tab, chord charts, the number system (I IV V) etc etc to "cheat" our way through a tune. all other instruments have to read the dots.
don't get me wrong I am not saying it is the only way to learn and no I did not learn only that way, but the a basis in theory cannot hurt anyone, in fact it can only help.
I don't know how many times I sit in with people and ask what the chords are and they say I don't know. I made them up. Well they did not make them up they just have strange fingerings for common chords. so you waste time trying to figure out something that is common.
If I had more time in my life and maybe if I made different choices when I was younger I would have spent more time studing theory and reading. At one point I could read in 5 positions, now i am lucky if I can read in the first position. I probably have forgot more theory than many guitarists have ever learned. I just wish I had the mental capacity to retain it all and execute it flawlessly. |
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Location: Central Oregon | "If I had more time in my life and maybe if I made different choices when I was younger I would have spent more time studing theory and reading."
Exactly Al.
I wish I knew more about theory, I really do. I have the same problem that some of the people I've tried to teach to play over the years have had. Some of the ones that never got it. They really would like to know how to play, but they were unwilling to take the time needed to practice & learn.
That's me & theory. I'd like to know more about it, but at this point in life I don't want to take the time to learn. I seem to soak it up in very small snippets as needed. I bought a book a month ago & I'm trying to read it....
I also seem to have developed a mind like a steel sieve, which doesn't help a bit. :)
Btw, I don't charge anyone for lessons, so if someone isn't making reasonable progress I tell 'em "Sorry, but I'm done".
On the other hand, #1 Nephew is doing really well, he'll be needing a roundback ac/elec before too long. :)
/\/\/ |
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Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma | I'm self taught from the age of 10 and I started off from a Peter Paul & Mary song book with a cord chart in the back that even had transposed chord progressions. (now I'm aging myself).. I too wish I would have taken some theory when I was younger...Now because of the interest I've taken in the piano and the mandolin I'm being forced to..
I think back to the time I learned how to play the guitar and my motivations were...
1. Being a guy- I knew chicks thought it was cool...
2. I wanted to see if I could play songs of musicians, Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, Neil Young, John Denver..ect..ect. to see if I could get the songs to sound just like they made them sound.
3. I wanted to do something that not many of my friends could do.
4. Playing the guitar made me "feel" like I "knew" the musicians better than anyone else.
So the ultimate thing I did was try to reproduce the songs. This was done with a few simple things. A couple of great song books with chord charts. Albums (now CD's) that I could listen to over and over again. If I couldn't figure out a part I could always find the music in a book at a music store and "cheat".
The early process I went thru was to get used to three simple patterns of chord changes.
GCD, CFG and EAD. Changing these chords within the groups at random and strumming until the chords sound clear. This also helps to learn how to transpose songs to different keys. Transposing a song became real important to me because I don't have a great vocal range. The minors, 7ths ect. came as neccessities to "fill" in parts of songs that weren't major chords.
I believe the most important part of learning to play any instrument tho is the want and desire to play and listen to music that you love to hear.. I know that since I learned how to "hack" around on a piano during college came to me because I could relate it back to the major chords from a guitar... Thanks to Elton John that he writes almost everything in C..
I think guitar lessons are great but, most of the learning will come from your son actually finding out that he CAN play songs that he likes.. The first goal should be finding songs he likes and are simple enough to learn without getting frustrated and quiting...
Best of luck with your son!... If he sticks with it he'll have a gift that not only pleases him but can also please and entertain others..
Gerald |
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Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Let's not forget about our own resources here. Matt has a really good disertation on theory for the short attention span crowd, namely me!
check it out! |
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Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I have been teaching on and off for years. Whether I'm qualified is questionable. I love to write songs and sing, but only play guitar in order to support those other passions. But there are some important things I've learned about teaching.
1) Motivation is key!!! The real learning happens when the student is on their own, but keeping them motivated and supported is the most important thing you can do. Learning guitar is not always easy, and often frustrating...creating a sense of ability to overcome challenges is key!
2)see #1. Life happens. Headaches, job stress, relationship troubles, tv, etc...guitar will take a back seat to these things. It's just reality. Keeping the guitar a compelling interest is not always easy, and you must be creative as a teacher, and understanding.
There are a few things I think are vital to getting someone started!
1) Help them find success immediately, and then along the way! I find teaching someone an open Em chord is wonderful...it's easy, you use all the strings, and it sounds awesome! Great results out of the gate!
2) We set a goal..a song THEY want to learn. I help them choose from several, so that it is within reason. We start learning the chords in that song, and then also THEORY as it relates to that song...what notes are in the chords, how to build the scale of the key, and also the chords in the key. Understanding HOW a song works is often more interesting and motivating than just learning pictures of chords. PLUS, you start learning theory a little less "painlessly". I also emphasize finger exercises...they build finger strentgh and independence and right hand coordination quickly.
I find that books don't work well at first. People want results NOW...they want to play what they want to by yesterday, and that doesn't include twinkle twinkle...that bores them to tears and is not captivating. You can always apply a concept or technique to a song they want to learn.
3) The most vital thing is to be passionate yourself. Being enthusiastic and driven is contageous. Reinforcement is also very key. If you can make SUCCESS accessable, then you build motivation in someone else. You can make the mundane aspects of learning guitar relavant to what they want to learn, but you have to be creative about it. And you have to be supportive. You definitely have to want and believe in their success as much (if not more) as they do, and driven to make it happen.
4) The most valuable thing I find I teach is what I call "finger economics" as a consistent thought process. Teaching a student to think about not only what they are currently doing in a song, but to think ahead about what's coming....and using the least movement needed to make the change as smooth as possible. There is a tendency for beginners to think of chords as seperate entities from each other-to be rebuilt from scratch as each time it arrives within a progression, and it's frustrating for them, yet they don't know why it causes them to be unnecessarily slow from chord to chord. Just a changing the way they think about getting from one chord to another economically often creates and immediate shift in a students succes and reaps very quick results. It's a shift in the thought process more than it is a physical thing, and takes split seconds of forethought. The phsycial change happens as a result of the thinking, but dramatically changes everything. The less road blocks, the quicker the success.
5) I encourage messing around with chords/lead playing and writing songs too. It's fun, playful, not stressful, and great for the ear! It inspires the imagination, creativity, and thinking outside the box. For me, it was how I really learned guitar-unfortuantely I did too much of this and not enough practicing!
Those are some ideas...probably more than you wanted.
Check out ww.cyberfret.com They have great resources for guitar, and I love the Power Practicing articles in the menu on the left. Great stuff regarding all aspects of guitar for teachers and students alike. I bought Jamey's books and think they are great. Very interesting ideas about muscle memory that I never heard before...really good stuff if you want to become an outstanding player (I'm working on that!).
Hope that helps.
-Johnny |
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Location: NJ | I've always found:
Groupies = Motivation. |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | Johnny
some very good pooints.
I started out learning from the Mel bay books and we all know how they were BUT they did lay down a good foundation of chords and sight reading, couple that with finger and chord exercises and you have a good basic foundation. Unfortunately the folk tunes in that book were even old and stale when I learned them in the sixties. Couple that with the POS guitar that my parents could afford for me, it is a miracle and I truely mean that, the guitar remained with me. It is an absolute miracle I learned to play anything at all. including how poorly I play now. My fingers literally would bleed from being cut from the strings. new strings were not an option unless you broke one. I remember one lesson when my teacher literally begged my mom to buy me new strings because I was punching holes in my fingers. My parents just did not have the money to do that.
So in the time of instant gratification and me orientation and drive thru everything, we have a new philosophy of guitar instruction which is more individualized and student oriented. I think that is great BUT anyone serious will need to know all the rules before you can break them. Maybe I learned from old geezers that were too strict and would make me play scales for months at a time before moving me eh...to the next scale. I guess what I am saying is that the popularity of sampling, turntables and rap is all because it is an easy way out. The dedication to the study of an instrument is really not what people want, they want to impress thier friends. On some levels that is fine but I think you have to be up front and find out the ultimate goal.
Cliff
why was I the guy always loading the equipment into the truck???? |
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Best way to start teaching my son the guitar
