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Location: Yucaipa, California | …my apologies for trying to put a positive spin into a thread. Won't happen again……ever.
Miles/Al…. it's run its course. |
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Location: SoCal | Tim, I'd hate to see you go. You touched a raw nerve and people jumped. It's a subject that they feel passionate about (mostly feeling burned).
I ain't apologizing for anybody. That's what's always made this board unique in my experience. There's a lot of passion and very little "follow the herd" mentality. Always makes it interesting.... |
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Location: Flahdaw | "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
Tim, you stood up and spoke, why not sit down and listen? It's actually kinda fun, or should be. No reason to shut down a thread or go away just because of differing opinions. |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | …been sitting down and listening for a long time here... |
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Location: SoCal | Tim, if you go, we'll all miss the foil hat (and the reminders to play at old folks homes).... |
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Tim in Yucaipa:
…been sitting down and listening for a long time here... ALOT longer than me! No one EVER agrees with me (or AlanM) but I still hang around. |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | I find threads like this frustrating; everyone wants to jump in with their opinion but no one ever backs those opinions with facts.
It's been said the guitars in question can't compare "spec for spec", so what are the differences? Different woods? Different bowl materials? What specifically are the differences?
It's been said, derogatorily it seems, that some guitars have glued necks as opposed to bolt-on necks. That seems strange to me as the early Ovations that everyone here praises so highly all had glued on necks. Please explain.
It's been said that Fender gives equipment to artists as a promotional tool as though the original Ovation company did not. Is that true? Seems like a lot of artists were promoting Ovation products in advertising years back; are you saying those artist weren't given equipment in exchange for their promotion?
Granted, the review was fluff, but I had hoped the knowledgeable folks here could provide the facts the review glossed over. All I'm reading here is more fluff. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think this is a great thread.. The tidbits I have taken away are that Ovation for a great review in a retail mag and many younger musicians are starting to see Ovations on YouTube. One can only speculate, but if that trend continues, and there is once again reason to do more than Custom shop guitars, I'm sure they will.
Remember, this is how Ovation started in the first place. History seems to always repeat itself. The first time around were the Glen Campbell's and Roy Clark's but unless you were a concert goer, or saw a tv appearance, you didn't really know about it... but it was enough to launch the brand.
Now... as the 70's and 80's are again fashionable, it's hard to not watch any of the MTV/VH-1 "Retro" shows for more than a tune or two and NOT see an Ovation... even the solid bodies. And, more importantly, they are showing up on YouTube. THAT is the big news.. Just like us, those musicians are going to want more. And the more they ask... well... it's called "supply to meet demand".
that's my two pence worth.
with one additional pence added... I buy quality, and I buy bang for buck. If that end up being something made in the USA... cool. But in most cases, it is not. The quality level of items made overseas are exactly what is SPECIFIED.. They can build anything, and build it better, faster and cheaper BUT... they build what they are SPEC'd TO BUILD.
In the case of guitars, some people actually spec quality guitars. Neal Moser has an import line. Most of them cost MORE than most USA Made guitars of other brands, because he didn't spec overseas for price, but for volume. He just couldn't hand build enough of them from his shop, so he spec'd high quality imports, and they cost... and they are worth it. Others do as well.
Bottom line... If you want a USA Built Ovation, just buy one. They still make them. Oh... it's going to cost you an extra phone call, and you are going to get the EXACT guitar you want.. but I guess some people just like the cookie cutter approach and feel everyone owes them a "bargain."
As I stated in another thread... the free ride is over. If you want a High Quality Made in USA Guitar... You are going to have order it.
Frankly, after typing all this... what's the point.. Ovation got a great review to get the word out, and you can still buy any guitar you want...
on second thought... click.. |
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Location: south east Michigan | In the last 3 or so years the OFC has changed... big time.
In the same time frame Ovation itself has changed... big time.
I regret the loss of both.
Tho I'd love to think that the Ovations coming in from Korea are of the same caliber and specs that came from the Mothership, but I know better. With their lower price point the new Ovations will still offer good value for the dollar. But I'm afraid the days of inovation are gone. I'm afraid the intangable things that made them so special to me for over 40 years, are gone.
I wish the company great finacial success. I hope the young players buy alot of the new Ovations and appreciate them as much as I appreciate mine. But some of us here, with good reason, will forever be stuck in Golden Years of the inovative yet traditional era of the USA made Ovations.
How about this analogy. Taks are made overseas and they are a damn fine instrument. Say you've been playing Taks for the last 30 years. Imagine if production was moved to oh lets say... Algonac Michigan. And lets say the machinery was duplicated and the specs where the same. You'd still loose the experience of the labor force. You'd loose the people who, even tho the specs where spot on, could tell by the feel that something is right or wrong. I don't think I'd buy an Algonac Tak.
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Sometimes I'm pissed at the loss the the USA Ovation. Sometimes it shows. But I'll get over it. After all... I can't buy a '67 Mustang anymore either.
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edit:
Yes Miles... I know you can still buy a USA made Ovation. But to anyone who has loved these guitars like some of us have, it's still a loss. Being mostly an electric guitar player you might not have the same perspective. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Did I miss something?
Can't you buy any USA Made Ovation you want today?
I seem to seriously be missing something I think.
I have essentially NEVER seen a USA Made Ovation in a store (maybe a couple in the past 30+ years)... so again.. what am I missing..
They make great imports (LIKE THEY HAVE FOR THE LAST AT LEAST 20 YEARS) and with a phone call, you can get any Ovation you want built to your specs...
Again... what am I missing ???
Oh.. yeah... and in the past few years they have come out with the VXT AND the iDea... |
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Location: Flahdaw | Oh yeah...like Michigan-made could ever compare to Korean-made. |
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Location: SoCal | I'd never buy anything from Algonac MI. We all KNOW the rep of the people who live there...... |
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
We all KNOW the rep of the people who live there...... Coconut bra wearing weirdos |
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Location: SoCal | You weren't even there. Don't you go picking on my gay little band mate!
Not that there's anything wrong with that..... |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by Tim in Yucaipa:
…my apologies for trying to put a positive spin into a thread. Won't happen again……ever.
Miles/Al…. it's run its course. Hey Tim, please don't take it that way! Rarely does a thread go this long without sinking into nonsense, yet we're still discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of the models whose production recently moved to Asia. It's all good, I don't think anyone was intentionally taking any shots at you for posting it, nor for any of your comments. You started one of the most interesting and potentially informative threads we've seen in a while. It's a very timely topic, I think some of us are… well, let's just call it "uncomfortable" with this situation, it sure seems have hit a raw nerve with some members… but the ongoing dialog is useful, interesting and hopefully even informative.
So please, take a seat, grab a beer and let's remember that we're all really on the same side here, (the side with the round back…) |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I've actually enjoyed this thread. There are some interesting points being made at a number of positions along the contiuum, even if those points are based primarily upon anecdotal experience, opinion and hearsay rather than empirical research and factual data. Engaging in debate and dialogue is healthy as long as we respect each other's right to have an opinion, regardless of the foundation (or lack thereof) upon which those opinions may be based, we exercise a little courtesy and civility in expressing ourselves, and we don't take disagreements personally. |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | …..please understand that my knickers are not in a knit. Honest. I just have issues with double standards.
My initial point was, that it seemed to me rather refreshing that someone other than the OFC Homeboy Club actually liked an Ovation guitar, not caring that it was "offshore", and had the guts to put that approval in print thus exposing himself to ridicule.
…I thought that would have been cause for encouragement for those who have been bemoaning the "lack of respect" for ANY Ovation.
Isn't it at all possible that someone who was on the fence about Ovations MIGHT now try one? They might even like a Celebrity, and then want to try the "real" Ovations……couldn't it have been a seed planted that may have garnered a harvest….even of one? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | sure that's possible.
And I'd never buy a Tak made in Mishigun. Maybe an Ovation, Slipkid, you looking to run a factory?? |
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Location: Scotland | Tim, all of that is valid and noble. However it is my opinion that the guitars should stand on their actual merits, not on marketing hyperbole that claims "Here is a guitar identical in every respect to the USA built version, except it's not built in the USA and costs a fraction of the price"
If something appears to be too good to be true, it usually is. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Yeah Miles... IMHO you're missing something.
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In recent times have purchased new USA Ovations off the rack at my local (non-guitar center) store. Over the years I have seen many USA models next to the imports. Then theres that great resource we all share... Lost Vintage Art.
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"They make great imports"...
Yes... great entry level guitars that were never comparable to those coming out of New Hartford. Can we all agree that quality and desirability wise the new Custom Legends coming from Korea fall somewhere between the Celebs and a USA Custom Legend?
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Perhaps the off shore Ovation models are better than the Celebrity models. But that's not saying much. (no offence to you who love your Celebs out there)
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Where once there was an entire factory all abuzz with the design and manufacturing of Ovations there is now a small corner relegated to one-sy two-sy special orders. That's what you might be missing Miles.
Beal
Member
Member # 7
Maybe an Ovation, Slipkid, you looking to run a factory??
Well... there is an old, empty Chris Craft factory up here. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Asked by fletcher:
It's been said, derogatorily it seems, that some guitars have glued necks as opposed to bolt-on necks. That seems strange to me as the early Ovations that everyone here praises so highly all had glued on necks. Please explain When older Ovations were Glued-on necks, the people doing the glue-ing took the time to make sure that it was done Right.
The reason I would desire a Bolt-on neck from Korea is that I could reset the neck myself.
I had two... No, Three New Korean Ultras that had terribly high action.
One I sent back to MF and they sent me another 2171, it was Okay with all the shims removed. But still not as good as a USA-made.
The other, a 2178 I traded to Woody, and he routed-out the saddle slot to lower the saddle.
I have a CC54i and a Ocean Acoustic... Both were new. (The OA was NOS, but I am the first owner)
Both have high action, but I cannot change it. (I mention this cuz they both have glue-on necks)
I have had 1115's, 1112's, and 1121's with glued necks that were just fine.
Many guitars have dovetail necks that are just fine If You Take The Time To Make Them Right!
I am just not positive that I will get that lucky with an imported one.
All that leads the the Fact that you could buy a USA Ovation online and be pretty sure that it will play like the same model Ovation that you tried-out in person...
If not, you could send it back to the MotherShip and they would make it right.
I don't think that you can send an AX or TX back to the Factory for a tune-up. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Action is overrated for most average players. Playing G, C, D, A, E, or F is really not THAT much harder with the action a tad higher. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Hey Slippy, we can use boats in Flooreeeda. Can we use guitar technology of fibreglass and wood to make a new kinda boat??
This just might lead somewhere....... |
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada | Wow!
Earlier this month I posted a note to the effect that for people new to Ovation, as I was a few years back, the OFC "is a place of higher learning and I never doze-off in class". This thread was great...errant elbows excepted...and I have to reinforce Mr. Ovation's remarks that there was very much to be learned in this exchange, particularly about the subject guitar, the "ovation custom legend c2079ax". This thread has solid information that could lead to a better informed purchase, so I've got to say good on you for this frank and informed discussion. And if not here, then where? But how to get here???
If I didn't know about the OFC, and I was a total newbie and read the review that started this exchange, I might Google it to find out more info. So I did just that.
I got +9000 hits, 305 when the repetitions were edited out. The first hit was the official Ovation website. The remaining 304 amounted to a litany of sellers, all with basically the same outline of the guitar; "hand-selected, premium grade AAA solid-spruce top...with LX scalloped bracing." "Cherry Burst NEW!! Buy It Now: US $xxxx.00" and so on. Impressive descriptions to be sure. Regrettably, no reference to the OFC appeared in any of the hits and that's a shame because the devils in the detail and the detail is here ! |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Hey. I've been buying 'foreign made Ovations' since about 1972!
And I'll warrant Templeman's been even buying overseas Ovations longer than that!
Remember, where you stand on the issue depends on where you sit. It's a little hard for some of us/you to feel good about change, but it's inevitable and mandatory. Change or die: there are no other choices. (well, for business anyway. For us mortals it's change AND die anyway.) So eat, drink, and be merry my friends!
;)
Oh,....and strum and 'O' as you skim the threads here.... |
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