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Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 640
Location: boulder | Hi all,
Does anyone know the date when the shiny bowls were changed into the textured bowls? Also and Maybe another way of asking is, Does anyone know what the serial numbers was when the shiny bowls were replaced by the textured bowls? (i will guess after the 'b' serial numbers.)
Does anyone know the serial number range from november 1967 to july 1968? It is not in ovation history book appendices. Here is my answer,( but I am looking for confirmation), I think it is 3000. I say this because I own s/n a-033 (thanks dave) and inside on the bracing it's engraved 3033. Does anyone follow this logic?
Lastly, the five point bridge was replaced by the wing tip bridge when (I think 11/68 roughly)? (I know s/n A-033 is five point bridge.) But 12 string (model #5) originally had a wing tip bridge. (such as s/n A-300) . So I am getting myself confused. And wing tip was replaced by modern bridge when? (i think about 1970)
This all started when I was looking at my model 1127. It's label reads 1127-4 with no K prefix, it's serial number is F-105. It has wing tip bridge, but I believe the 1127's came with wing tip bridge at first, then changed to modern bridge later. I might sell it if anyone is interested. thanks for all help, sorry about long post. mike |
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Joined:
August 2004
Posts: 709
Location: Germany | Fugot,
I don't have answers to your questions, but my 1115 (12-string from 1969 with winged bridge) is serial C-412 and has a textured bowl. That approves your assumption, that bowl changed after 'b' numbers.
Karl |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Bob Frith would know this stuff better than I, but he has not posted for quite awhile. I'll give it a shot ... And there is actually a 4th variable in this, the inlaid rosette.
The correlation between serial numbers and material changes (bowl, rosette, bridge) and model numbers is "loose" at best and for sure everything did not change all at once. For every rule of thumb, there are 4 more fingers of exceptions. For sure ALL 7 production models started out as shiny bowls with inlaid rosettes. The 6 strings (except classical) all had 5 pont bridge and the 12 strings had winged bridges. All had serial numbers stamped on the neck block. And this held true up through the B- serial numbers.
The serial number sequence is hard to figure out. It looks like they kept the 3 and 4 digit serials up through 2999. Then they started to use prefixes like A-033. But as you know from the guitar you got from me, A-033 is also called 3033 on the neck block. At some point during the B- serials they seem to have introduced model numbers and it looks like the first to get model numbers were the Glen Campbells. The 12-string was labeled K1118 and the the 6-string was K1117 and they also say Glen Campbell on the label.
The Glen Campbells introduced in 68-69 definately were the last with the original style appointments. And at some point towards the end of the original GC run in '69 he textured bowls started to creep into production. There are GC12's with textured bowls. At about this same time they dropped the 5 point bridge and came out with a winged 6 string bridge which first showed up on the new 1111 Balladeer (I owned one of these). Also at this time they came out with the add-on rosette which also first showed up on the 1111. Very quickly the add-on rosette found its way into the entire line.
So during this period of '69 to about '71 there are all kinds of mix and match guitars. Shiny bowls with add-on rosettes, textured bowls with 5 point bridges, etc. I real confusing time. It's also been speculated that the 5 point and winged bridges caused a lot of problems with top cracking. The number of old guitars you see with replaced bridges (like your 12-string) is astounding.
Anyway, sorry I can't be more definitive. The factory was not focussed on keeping accurate records back them and they did the obvious thing - use what ever parts you have to build something that they can sell. There are a few interesting combinations you should keep an eye out for (over my dead body):
Josh White with inlaid zig-zag rosette.
GC 1117 shiny bowl with winged bridge.
Balladeer with black inlaid rosette.
GC 12 small hole with textured bowl.
Dave |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | The late 60's to early 70's were an interesting time for Ovation. I own two 1968-1969 guitars, a Glen Campbell Deluxe Balladeer and a GC 12 string. the DB is a shiny bowl with an inlaid rosette. the 12 is a textured bowl with the overlaid rosette. The DB was built during Nov 68 to Feb 69 and the 12 during Feb-Sept 69.
I have no doubt that there was a great deal of mixing and matching during this time. However, the 1970 catalog shows the new winged bridge for the first time (the straight Balladeer, in the catalog, still had the 5 pointer -- I'd love to find one of those guitars!). The 1972 catalog shows all the guitars with the current rounded bridge.
My guess on the textured bowls and overlaid rosettes is that both were phased in during the second half of 1969. I suspect that you'll never be able to pinpoint it down further than that. As Dave said, the company was more interested in selling guitars than in keeping detailed records for a fan club 35 years down the road! |
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Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 640
Location: boulder | thanks guys, I tried reading past threads, cross referencing with Ovation book and using common sense, but it hurt my brain after awhile. :)
I realize I will never know an exact date for my questions, but this helps a lot. mike |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Phoenix, AZ | Don't know if this helps you, but I have Deluxe Balladeer (shiny bowl) A-996. I bought it Spring 1969. I can't remember exactly when I bought it, I'd guess April. I do remember waiting for it to come in. So, I'd guess it was made early 1969 or very late 1968 at the earliest. I don't know the time lag from manufacture to store receipt in those days. |
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shiny bowl, s/n and early bridge questions
