Hi all,
Years ago I posted about a 1768 Elite that I bought, which ended up having a badly warped and cracked top and braces.

http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=47407

https://imgur.com/a/ovation-1768-bent-top-2Jszd

I tried steaming the top and putting weights on it, which undid the warp just a little bit. But the braces themselves are definitely bent. I put the guitar back together and it surprisingly plays okay with a correct neck angle, but it still looks terrible and doesn't sound very good. I couldn't glue the fretboard extension down since the top is so warped underneath, so the high notes don't ring out at all. The birch ply behind the soundholes is delaminated a bit. I think the top has continued to shrink, too, as the binding is pulling away on the treble side of the lower bout. The fretboard wood is really rough textured too, which I don't like.

The good news is that in the intervening years I've done a lot of building of electric guitars and basses. I feel that my skills have progressed and maybe now I can do a full retopping and finally get the guitar playing and looking good like I always wanted it to be.

I have done full from scratch builds on electrics, a StewMac Kit ukulele, and refrets on other acoustics, but I have not done a full from scratch acoustic build. I use mostly hand tools, and am relatively confortable with joinery, precision dimensioning lumber and components, fretwork, binding, finishing, electronics, and inlay.
Bass Guitar Finished Photos
Bass Guitar Build Log
Custom guitar that I just finished

I've been reading the various retopping threads in this forum, especially this one which I found very helpful.

I wanted to ask the group about the feasibility of a retopping project and see if there's anything I'm overlooking... Here's what I'm envisioning for the project:

1. Trace the shape of the guitar body. Make some drawings.
2. Remove the binding
3. Remove the old top
4. Measure the old top: bracing location and profiles, soundholes, thickness
5. Joint and thickness plane the new top
6. Fabricate and glue on some thin laminate around the soundhole areas on the back
7. Drill out the soundholes
8. Maybe some decorative inlay around soundholes instead of "epaulets"?
9. Cut and shape the bracing, sand to the top radius
10. Glue on the bracing
11. (Do I need to do something here with the bowl to make sure the neck is at the correct angle?)
12. Glue the top onto the bowl
13. Route the binding channel into the top
14. Glue on binding
15. Glue on the bridge (or maybe after finishing?)
16. Pull frets
17. Attach neck, glue fretboard extension to top
18. Sand and re-radius the fretboard, and sand fall-away onto fretboard extension
19. Press in frets, level and dress, etc.
20. Finish the top (I usually use nitro lacquer over shellac)
21. Glue on bridge if not done earlier
22. Add strings, set up, etc.
23. (Celebrate?)

Assuming I'm not forgetting any major steps, I have some specific questions:

Do Ovations use a radius on the top? I don't have a radiused sanding dish, but could buy one. It would be great if I could use one in a "standard" radius for building more conventional acoustic guitars, which is something I'd like to do in the future.

I don't have a go-bar deck. Can I use deep-throated clamps to glue on the braces one by one?

As it sits now, the guitar has a full-width laminate across the top in the soundhole area. I see in the thread I linked above that Dan suggested in future builds only adding the laminate laminate behind the soundholes, which I'd also like to do. Any pitfalls I should be aware of?

I have on hand here a StewMac torrefied sitka top and a set of torrefied bracing stock, would those be acceptable to use? What top thickness do you guys recommend? I usually string my acoustics with 12's, by the way, and definitely like a responsive-feeling guitar. I'm not a heavy-handed player.

I've read in some of the retopping threads about heating the bowl to change the neck angle. Is that something I need to do? Is there a way to "measure" the alignment of the neck heel and bowl before I put everything together. Either way, I'm thinking of installing the frets after gluing on the neck, so that I get a chance to sand the fretboard with everything assembled. This is how I've refretted acoustics in the past. Is there any issue with doing things in this order? Only thing I can think of is maybe it'll be really hard to trim the fret ends where the fretboard tapers at the end.

I would like to lighten the weight of the guitar some if possible, and I also don't love the sound of the OP24 pickup and preamp. On my other acoustics I like to use a K&K Mini pickup with an outboard preamp. Could that be done here? Would it sound good? I'd hope to capture more of the tone of the top wood, not just the bridge saddle.
Maybe I could remove all of the electronics and cover up the hole in the side of the bowl? And if so, could I use a more "traditional" pinless bridge with a bone saddle? I would assume if I do so, I still need to have 2 bolts helping to hold the bridge onto the top? What sort of bolts do you recommend, maybe aluminum for light weight?

The fretboard extension has a tiny bit of back bow (visible in one of the photos) but I think this will be fine when it's glued to the top. Do you agree?

How do you guys set up clamps to glue on the freboard extension and bridge without a conventional soundhole? I'm thinking maybe use rare earth magnets?

How do you recommend removing the top? Heat gun and putty knife, to take the binding off first and then the top? I assume the kerfing (or whatever is in there?) stays attached to the bowl and is reused?

Some photos of the guitar as it sits now:

When I did my 1778T, I made the cross-grain reinforcement go all the way across the top a la the 1537. This required that I 'notch' the underside of the braces. That was unnecessary. The main purpose of the reinforcement is to ensure the top doesn't split between the sound holes.

As such, you only need reinforcement over the sound holes in the same way later Elites are done. The image below is from a 2078 TX.

I have a jig I made that simulates a tool used by the factory. I use this to set the neck angle when the top is being glued.

At one time I tried a bowl-bend using heat, but I found when doing Jen Chapin's 1613 that the neck angle can be reset when the top is glued. Once glued, the neck angle will remain the same.

Think of a Tupperware bowl. When the lid is off, it's easily distorted. Once the lid is snapped into place, the bowl becomes rigid. This is the same principle for Ovation guitars.

You'll definitely want to glue the bridge on after finishing. To ensure a good glue joint, mask the area of the bridge before applying the finish, then once the finish is done and you've cut and polished the top, remove the masking tape and use naphtha to clean any glue residue.

Generally speaking, Ovations are one of the few guitars with no radius to the top.

I suppose you could use clamps for the braces, but if you're planning to build/re-top guitars in the future you'd probably be better off just spending the money to buy a go-bar deck. I bought mine from Blues Creek Guitars. They sell for $110. (See: Gobar Deck)

If you're going to use torrefied wood for the top and braces, I would also make the doubler from torrefied wood.

Stewmac torrefied Sitka is fine. Ovation guitars are one of the few to feature tapered tops. IOW, the wood is thicker near the neck and thinner near the bottom. I made myself a custom tool to do this. The top is place in the tool, then it gets tapered when it goes through the belt sander. I usually go for ~.110" at the top and ~.094" at the bottom.

I'm sure you would get good results with a top that isn't tapered. Just make the whole top ~.110". The torrefied wood will be much more responsive than a normal top. Keep in mind that torrefied wood has less shear and peel strength and normal wood. Because of this I usually recommend and use Extra Light strings so It doesn't pop the bridge off the top.

If you go to my Harry Chaping 1613 thread, page 3, I explain how I did the neck reset while gluing the top to the bowl. It worked so well, this is my go-to method to reset the neck. I tried a bowl-bend once, but the bowl eventually reverted back to it's previous condition.

In the photo below, the top is being glued at the same time the neck is being reset.

If you adjust the TR so the neck is flat, you can lay a straight edge along the middle so the end of it is near the bridge. On a properly adjusted neck, the straight edge should be just above the top of the bridge, like this:

On my 1778T, I used Stewmac deep throat clamps for the bridge. You'll have to remove the bottom adjuster to get it through the sound hole, then reinstall it once it's inside the guitar.

The binding and purfling can just be peeled off without heat. I use an Xacto chisel to remove the top. It gets slid between the lining and the wood of the top. Since you're replacing the top it won't matter if the wood gets a little chewed up.

In the photo below you can just see the tip of the chisel.

Hi davegardner0,
That is a very cool looking project you've got going there! Hope you don't mind my chiming in. With regard to clamping the fretboard extension down, I've been using a door stop wedge...

The above is on a mid-depth bowl, but the door stop clamp works on deep and super shallow bowls as well. Not exactly the precision Luthiery solution, but it works well with the Os I've worked on. If the neck joint is properly fit, there's no need for an enormous amount of clamping force to keep the fretboard extension in place. If the extension is not designed to be floating I'd definitely recommend against leaving the fretboard floating. If the floating is too bad, I think a shim under the fretboard extension would be advisable.

Oh and if you're going to take the top off anyway, you might try flatening it out after removal. My 1868 top looked like this when I first got it

After stripping the paint and removing the top it looked like this...

I was able to salvage, repurpose the top and restore my 1868. Repairing the warped top took a bit of time wetting and drying over several months, but the results were well worth it to me. Having said that, I would probably choose to re-top the 1768 if it were mine. Might be good to get the project under way and share as you go. The BFLG folks are highly experienced and always provide valuable insight. As far as I can tell there is nothing on your 1768 that isn't repairable! Good luck!  

Hi davegardner0,

You're getting great advice from Dan. He's helped me with pretty much all of my BFLG projects. I think there would be overwhelming consensus that he's the "Go to" guy at the BFLG and beyond. As far as using the "All Parts pinless bridge" that will definitely work. Whether you bolt the bridge down or not might depend on the strength of the adhesive you use. I've replaced bridges on some Celebrity models and used the space age epoxy Hysol 9462. As long as the bridge is properly clamped and you're glueing wood to wood (as opposed to wood to poly finish), there is no need for bolts (of course, the bolts are there just to protect players and others in the event the bridge pops off so you might want to add bolts just in case anyway). If you're thinking the bridge might need to come off some time in the future, I'd go with Hysol 0151 with bolts. The adhesives you choose will definitely guide your project in different directions.

I also might be able to provide some insight with the bridge and "soundboard pickup" inquiry. I'm assuming you mean round transducer style pickups, right? I've worked with K&K and other brands. They'll definitely work on your 1768; however the configuration will very much depend on how you decide to brace your 1768. If you're going to go with factory specs, I think you'll be using the Quintad bracing; but that will raise some challenges if you decide to go with traditional 3 transducer PUPs (two transducers aren't enough to provide level dynamics across six strings) because the center brace goes right through the middle of the bridge where one of the transducers need to be positioned. I think the pic below might help...

That middle transducer brace blockage will be an issue with A-braced and K-5 braced O's as well. There's several alternatives IMHO. One is to use X-bracing. The other is to keep the Quintad bracing and test for the transducers sweet spot where dynamic balance is achieved. I've put transducer PUPs in some classical guitars with intricate bracing configurations. If you use some masking tape on the guitar top and double-stick (tape) the transducers onto the masking tape, you can test for the sweet spot on the guitar. The masking tape really helped to protect the delicate French polish finish while I stuck and peeled off the transducers to find the perfect position.

This particular classical guitar used a Fleta style bracing pattern modified for a cutaway. There was no way to get the center transducer positioned perfectly under the bridge. Once the ideal position was determined (as shown above) the masking tape was marked at the center and the transducers were glued (very carefully using CA gel) under the sound board using two hands (lots of dry runs!) I was afraid that the proximity of the transducers would detriment the output volume, but my fears were unfounded.

Hope this helps! Cheers!