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Posts: 9
Location: Salisbury, CT | Scot's Collector's '03 is serial number 458 and included the full Lifetime warrenty. I bought it for him, he's 10 for those that don't know, down the road from New Hartford in a music store for $729.95. The price included a deluxe 9158-0 case.
The frets were a bit proud so I took the guitar into John and Kevin filed them down and it is now perfect. Oh, and one of the tuner nuts was loose and Kevin took care of that as well and adjusted the neck for action that would suit Scot.
I can understand Cliff's complaints but Scot's guitar sounds great and looks nice from his perspective. Not a bad guitar to learn on, IMHO. I think the flush walnut epaulets were a trial run for the LX but that is a guess.
My 2 cents,
Hugh |
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Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | What's wrong with this picture: a private individual can buy a new 2003 Collectors with case and full warranty for $730 down the road from the factory, but Ovation dealers around the country are paying regular wholesale?
And then there is that place on eBay that routinely blows out Ovations at well below dealer cost....
Al has to compete against this? |
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June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Doesn't the distribution chain work something like this - Ovation makes and sells the guitars to Kaman Music and Kaman has a network of distributers such as C.Bruno and others, who then sell them to the shops? So is it possible that one or more of the distributers may have bought a truck load of referbs from Kaman and sold them cheap to (only) their clients? So some shops get referbs cheap, which may or may not be referbs but that's a whole other mess, and other shops pay full wholesale price? This whole 2003 thing is a mess. Somebody really screwed the pooch and I don't think it was the factory. My bet is that's all gummed up at the Kaman Music level and the distribution scheme. Dave |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 396
| Yes, it would appear a messy scenario. The last few points look at it from a dealer's perspective, but what about the consumer's perspective? Talk about lowering consumer confidence in a product! I'd have to think twice about buying any collector or anniversary issue guitar.
Since the story about Ovation stamping refurb on unflawed/pristine guitars in order to blow out the prices (and hang out to dry people who have already purchased the guitar at regular prices) is making the rounds, I'd like to see someone from Ovation refute the story. For reasons I already stated in a previous post, I don't know if I believe the story (although I heard the story from a dealer). As far as the 2003 collector edition, I can see a huge problem if Ovation did indeed have large stock sitting there when they started plans to release the Elite lx (which could be seen as an improved version of roughly the same guitar for about $1000 versus the street value of the collector which was hundreds more).
Now, will there be refurbs on the current anniversary issue 6-9 months from now? Will they be real refurbs that had problems, or just clearing stock? Now, I'm sure many people would say this wouldn't happen for various reasons. Would they have said that wouldn't have happened with the 2003 collector edition 6 months before the flood of refurbs hit the market? It does make a ding on consumer confidence. |
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Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | You talked with a dealer who told you a story and now your knickers are all bunched up.
My experience with dealers is that most of them have no idea what they are talking about. Why don't you make some more inquiries to other dealers and see what else is being said. While there is a small chance that he was telling you the truth, there is a greater chance that he wasn't.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for somebody from Ovation to post here. They don't.
As for your being disillusioned with Ovation, get over it. People and companies are always going to do something that you don't understand or like. Once a month, my wife and daughter do things that totally baffel me (hey, in my house, PMS means Paul Must Suffer). I put up with it because the main direction in which we are all moving is the same one.
I didn't write off Ovation because in the 90's they weren't building anything I liked (including most of the Collector's series). I knew that others like them, I played my older O's, I tried to provide some imput as to what I'd like so see (via this board), and I bidded my time. They now make some guitars that I am very interested in.
Hey, the world would be a better place if everybody listened to me, but I'd be bored out of my mind. |
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August 2003
Posts: 396
| You're not boring, at all! I didn't believe the story when a dealer told it to me, but others appear to have heard the story from different dealers. I give Ovation great cudos for the Lx design, the way they are adapting and changing to compete in today's market. My elite lx and my 1861 balladeer are excellent, quality guitars. My 12 string purchase will probably be an Ovation, but that doesn't mean I'll sing their praises when they screw-up or when they appear to screw up. I'll still ask the questions I have, and look for answers from knowledgeable people here, whether it makes Ovation look good or bad. |
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February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | I thought "collector" series meant "limited" production???(low #'s produced therefore making them "desirable" & "collectable") Why then are there SO MANY '03's to be "blown out" as referbs???
**** |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | when a guitar is a refurb or a second it always efffects the value in the vintage market, so if you bought a first quality you got what you paid for and it will hold its value accordingly. There are many people that do not want a used second or refurb guitar, they have a stigma about them. Personally I feel a deal is a deal. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | E.P.:
If you ever go thru the archives (a fun way to spend a rainy Saturday), you'll see that everybody here has ripped Ovation at one time or another.
I'm just not going to do it based upon what a dealer says. My experience is that they are on par with used car salesmen. You deal with them. That's different then trusting them. |
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August 2003
Posts: 396
| Paul, we agree on that point. The average guitar salesman reminds me of the stereo salesmen of the late 70's-80's. The misinformation and lack of knowledge is amazing. To call these guys used car salesmen may be an insult to the used car salesmen. |
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June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | So what's wrong with a manufacturer blowing out his inventory at a lower price than people paid for it a year ago when it was new? If I make a product and only half of it sells at the original price, what option do I have? Do I destroy the remaining stock or do I mark and down and unload it? If my distribution agreement requires me to call it "referb" in order to mark it down, so be it. I really don't see what the problem is. My neighbor got his Levi's on sale the week after I paid full retail for mine - Big Fuzzy Deal. Do these blow out prices cheapen the guitars value on the vintage resale market - probably yes. But the friggin guitar didn't sell well to begin with (hence the blowout prices), so what does that tell you about it's potential resale value. Does it cheapen the value and dimenish the playing pleasure to YOU who own and love one of them? It shouldn't. I've said this many times before - The important thing is the value to YOU. Don't worry about what your neighbor paid or what measures Ovation did or didn't have to take to move these things. And the '05 Collector can't be all that far away, can it ??? Dave |
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Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | " probably yes. But the friggin guitar didn't sell well to begin with (hence the blowout prices)"
I don't know for sure, but just an educated guess... that although in the past, far past, there were a large group of folks whom every year bought the latest collectors edition, that ritual has changed and probably just not worth making a new model every year for the relatively few folks that bought them. As many have said, the end of the collectors series has been long overdue. The few garanteed sales is probably the only thing that kept it alive this long. Now that the LX technology is in place, and with other "new things" Ovation seems to be leaning towards, the collectors series has run its course.
The whole FRG thing is a little odd, but it's one model of one guitar that apparently no one bought. It's nice that they can get these guitars out there and recoup somehow.
As far as the consumer paying one thing, and two weeks later it's cheaper... well... I guess you never bought a computer. Not only is the thing next month $200 cheaper, but it's also 20% more powerful. |
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January 2003
Posts: 43
| Okay, Okay.....Yeah, I am pissed off about them unceremoniously dropping the Collectors series. They replaced it with
1. the 30th Anniversary Custom Legend (which I have played, had a chance to buy the Ovation Reps guitar on the spot, but turned it down because, frankly, it isn't all that.
2. The LX series. I have also played these guitars and the feel mass produced. They do not have the feel of a crafted guitar. They feel and sound like a Celebrity to me. Ovation is clearly trying to cut costs and increase profits, but they are doing so by dropping the thing that has made them famous, the US built, crafted guitar.
Folks, I have many guitars, not just Ovations. But Ovations are not everything, but I was loyal to them for one reason. Every year, they put on their thinking caps, designed a new Collectors Series guitar using new technology, or unusual woods, and made something very special every year, something different than any other guitar on the market. They were the only company to do this. This one thing alone set them heads above every other manufacturer, Martin, Gibson, Fender, Etc. No one else has been doing this, and it was unique to Ovation. So they drop it. Smart move....NOT. I have an older model Balladeer 12 string. It has been my main acoustic 12 string axe for years, live and recording. A few years back, while buying my 2000 Collectors series guitar at Kelleys Music, I had a few extra grand that I could spend on another guitar. There was a Gretsch 6022-12 Rancher 12 string acoustic sitting there in the showroom. I wasn't interested in a 12 string, but Ron told me I had to play it. Ron is well aware of my 12 string guitar collection, and he knew what I liked in a guitar. He was right, I bought the Gretsch, and my Ovation 12 String Balladeer comes out for pictures not. The Gretsch does all of my 12 string work, plus is often called in to local recording studios for other musicians that want a killer 12 string sound. I guess what I am saying is, I love Ovations, but they are not the only guitar I can buy. It is Ovations responsibility to give me what I want, not what they want, if they want my money. I don't HAVE to buy Ovations, and I won't unless I see something that changes my mind. And the LX series is not going to do it.
Mike Overacker
www.ovationcollector.com
2003 Collector
2002 Collector
2001 Collector
2000 Collector
1999 Collector
1998 Collector
1992 Collector
1992 Collector Brownburst
1986 Collector
1986 Collector
1984 Collector
1983 Collector
2001 Celebrity Doubleneck
2000 Celebrity Collector
1999 Ovation Longneck
1982 Balladeer 12 String
Ovation Breadwinner |
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Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Well Mike, I seriously doubt if Ovation is going to make guitars just for you. Or for any of us.
As for the Collectors, while I know that some folks here love their Collectors (and I'm glad they do), with the exception of about 4 models, they never smoked my shorts. Life is tough.
If you think the LX (or any USA made Ovation) is mass produced, then you should have gone on the OFC tour (maybe you did go on the first one -- I don't recall you from the second). Ovations are an interesting mix of hand craftsmanship and technology. The mix gives them an excellent guitar, which, I believe, is superior in sound and construction than most of the collectors series.
I've got an 83 Elite which is a great guitar (most of the collectors are based upon this instrument). But I've also go a 68 Deluxe Balladeer, which quite honestly, is a more satisfying guitar to play. The LX harkens back to the 68, and I, for one, think it's a step in the right direction.
But if you want Ovation to build a guitar just for you, then order one. That's what I'm going to do with an LX. |
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November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Photogazer, you said that the LX felt and sounded like a Celebrity. Are we playing the same guitars? The LX Legend is a wonderful playing and sounding guitar. It is also beautifully made. I for one am happy that Ovation is headed in this direction. And judging by LX sales, I am not alone in this. The LX for me is the best Ovation I have ever owned, and this is coming from a guy who played only an Adamas 1 for 22 years. |
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April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | Hey Moody, I'm Listening!!!
This is Just my 2 Cents worth!
From My Experience at the 2nd factory Tour, I played several LX models they had. All Played Great . They felt lighter but had a great sound.
Now granted, Sound is a subjective thing. What sounds great to some, may sound "Just OK" to others. That's why Ovation offers different models.
They also do special orders and custom orders alot.
They did some custom work for me last year. When I buy my LX, they'll do a custom finish job for me. Now the 2003VN Refurb deal is really nothing to make a stink about.It's been said earlier,..They made a model that didn't sell as well as they thought, so they lowered the price to clear them out. Refurb or not if you can afford it.. take advantage of the great deal.
For those who loved it, when it was released, and paid the "New" Price for it" That's great too.
Basically they got a guitar they wanted-when they wanted it.
The fact that something gets marked down or stamped a "refurb" or even if it's a 2nd with a minor finish flaw,..does not mean the said Instrument is a bad Instrument. It just means that those who buy it Got a great deal on a Great Ovation, and it really doesn't change the fact that those who bought the 2003VN at the New Price will love their Instrument Less. |
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April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | Oopps I must be loosing my mind!! lets try yhis again!It just means that those who buy it Got a great deal on a Great Ovation, and it really doesn't change the fact that those who bought the 2003VN at the New Price will love their Instrument Less.
What i meant to say is They will not love their instrument less.
Gee, I guess that Time change did mess with the brain cells :D |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | This reminds of a very old Doonesbury comic strip that has stuck with me. Zonker states that "A critic is someone who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing".
Brad |
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Whats with MF, "refurb" 2003 collectors they claim are not refurbs
