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Location: Scotland | Miles, maybe I sould have said "better informed if they choose to be" 20 years ago there was "Guitar Player" Magazine & that was about it. Now the newstands are bulging with guitar-related info. The UK has at least 4 monthly guitar mags, & I see at least that many US publications, then there's books, video, DVD, the Web. If the guitar-buying/playing public aren't clued-up it's their own fault, the information is in the public domain.
I'm also not sure of the relevance of comparing an $800 guitar 15 years ago to today, so much has changed. I still beleive that the average guitar buyer can get a decent deal & that guitars generally can represent good value. 35 years ago a Fender Strat cost around £300, while a small family car cost around £750. Now a Strat is around £900 while a comparable car is around £9000. It truly amazes me that the music retail industry survives at all
[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: NJ | I agree with Miles generally people are dumb they think if they spend the most money then they get a great product not always the case. I always tell people to use their eyes and ears as their judge. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Paul
Don't forget that the car has had 35 years of government safety, emission, and gas (petrol) mileage regulation. Guitars, so far, have escaped that economic burden. But who knows what hungry gov't regulator is lurking about, perhaps even on this board. Please members, do not make any statements concerning injuries caused by your guitars. Things like broken fingernails, blistered fingertips or even mental anguish can lead to a guitar that will retail for $3000, and will be made of quilted marshmallows and strung with rolled bubble gum, with strict decibel and music quality standards set by a joint EU-American policy group. Who knows what LURKS in the minds of men, THE SHADOW KNOWS!
Bailey :eek: |
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Location: Scotland | I was kinda playing devil's advocate with the car analogy. The point I was clumsily trying to make was about the percieved value of musical instruments. We seem quite happy to spend 10, 15, 20 grand or more on a car, which will be a worthless pile of scrap metal in not many years, but 2-3 grand on a top-line guitar, which will last a lifetime, has the potential to appreciate in value & can help provide it's owner with a living, is a problem. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Paul
[ July 06, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: SoCal | Both purchases are highly emotional and highly personal. And usually, both defy others' logic. |
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Location: Orlando, Florida | I agree that "Both purchases are highly emotional and highly personal." I think that you need to play a guitar that you like, and works for you, and not succumb to peer pressure. If a cheaper import sounds good and works for you, you don't need to break the bank to impress anyone.
jyam4 |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I'll buy that, and I'll confess. I bought a Yamaki copy of a Martin D-42 in the 70's, that I play today. It's the best acoustic guitar I own, and I bought one for my oldest son that he still plays today. They weren't cheap, but cost much less than the equivalent Martin and the material and workmanship was excellent. By doing that I was able to buy 2 guitars at a time when I had 4 kids to raise and the prestige of a name guitar for myself would have been selfish in the extreme. Somebody already mentioned on this board that Yamaki went out of business, but they were a class guitar, and showed that imports didn't have to be second rate.
We had a banjo player of japanese descent in our bluegrass club who had a top drawer Gibson banjo, and could play it pretty well. (He was an engineer in his non-decadent life) We had to observe that all us hillbillies were playing Jap instruments, what did he know that we didn't? By the way, a Gibson banjo was over $1000 even then, and, as Paul noted, That would make a big down payment on some of the best muscle cars ever built.
Bailey |
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Location: Dallas | Baily, Amen to most of your theory. I started playing when I was 12 in 1964. I did by what I could afford which was a St.George bass without a case for 25 bucks at a pawn shop, and carried it in a plastic cover like trash bag.
Let me tell you that I'd prefer a cadillac over a volkswagon anytime brother. I like the way you broke it down, and you are right in alot of things. But, alot more detail goes into making a caddy than a VW. I'll take the Cad, in this case my Glen Campbell Ovation with the A/C and power steering and cruise control sound model 1127-4 M293 GC signature series. Also I'm still trying to find out what the M293 serial number means, and will have pictures up within the week of it. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Gizz
You are making my point in a sense. The manufacturers that I am whipping on have names that begin with F, G, and M. My daughter had a friend in Albuquerque who was trying to talk her into buying a Martin acoustic/electric like he had, I looked at a description of it in a catalogue, and it had a what looked like a plywood top, but the price was Martinesque. Ovation has not put their name on anything of this lower quality that I know of, the Celebrities are honestly foreign built, and are of pretty good quality. If you read the postings, Ovation is honest about factory seconds, unheard of today, somebody tell me when a factory second Fender has ever appeared, are they producing 100% perfect guitars? If I weren't retired and living on a fixed income, I would buy all those underpriced Ovations out there I could and watch the reputation of F, G and M crash on their catalogue junk. Hmmm, I don,t have a 12 string, time to start putting my money where my mouth is.
Bailey
[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: Denton, Texas | Part of our problem with cost is that the value of the dollar has fallen to about 25% of the value of the dollar value established in 1968. With that in mind, a brand new Custom Legend, which cost me $1129.75 on March 12, 1979 should now cost at least 3 times that much=$3389.25 plus tax, title and license. Wages of the artisans who build these precious instruments (in the USA) should be 3 to 4 times what they were making in the '70's and 80's, and I'll bet they're not making forty or fifty bucks an hour, just a guess. |
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Location: Somerset, Kentucky | Since I'm obviously the "newbie", & I don't know what MOTS means, I may be speaking out of turn here, but from the gist of the original post, it seems to me you're slamming an Ovation(?)rip-off, or maybe a Korean made Ovation? I don't know for sure, but I can say this, I own an Ovation Celebrity, made in Korea, with a strawberry colored, tiger stripe top, with gold hardware. It cost me around $800.00 US with the case, & it sounds killer to me. It's also acoustic-electric, which means I can go either way when I play out. As for recording, yes, I've heard Martins & Taylors, ad nauseum, that sounded better, but I've also heard quite a few more of the same that sounded absolutely awful. Occasionally, you get a diamond that slips through the coal factory, if you know what I mean. By the way, does anyone know where I could find a 12-string to match? Play on! :confused: |
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Location: Scotland | Thank you. You have illustrated the point I was trying to make perectly. The $800 you spent on your Celebrity, which is a fine instrument, could have bought you a used top-range USA Ovation such an Elite, Custom Legend or Collectors series, which are significantly superior instruments. My point was that older used USA-made Ovations are exceptional value compared to new import copies.
[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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ovation rip-offs
