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Location: USA/Maryland | Asked previously in the new members forum...
I have an opportunity to pick up a 1117-1 with a S/N of M (551 I believe). The 'M's don't appear in any S/N list I've seen. I've only spoke to the owner by phone. He says he bought it (used) in '74. The case is brown with purple lining.
He is a few hours away, but willing to meet me halfway. I'm trying to get as much info as possible before committing us both to a road trip. I'm considering trading him my 2005-ES for his Legend. I only play at home and don't need the electronics of my 2005ES, and I really love the old 70's non-cutaways. I had a '75 1612 and foolishly sold it last year, regretting it ever since.
I had a reply in the other thread from Old Man Arthur (thanks), giving me some info, and then I saw the other recent "M" thread where member 'Jay' replied that he had a '71 1117 with an M 7xx s/n. It sounds like this one would probably be a '71 also.
My main concern is what the bracing it would have for that year. I've read that some of the VT bracing's are overly bright. I'm quite happy with the acoustic sound of my ES and and hoping that this 1117 will sound similar. My 1612 had 'X' bracing and it sounded very nice. We will probably meet in some fast food parking lot where conditions to check it out won't be the best.
I'm not really concerned about any $ value differences, but any other info would be appreciated.
Thanks, Jeff
Edited by JeffR 2015-07-27 8:16 PM
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The 2005 is one of the best sounding guitars I ever played. I don't buy guitars for the plugged in sound. There are lots more Legends out there at decent prices than most of the other models. The ones without preamps tend to go for lower prices. That being said, if you're trading straight across, you're getting the short end of the deal. He could sell your 05 and buy 2 Legends. So could you for that matter. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The 2005 is one of the best sounding guitars I ever played. I don't buy guitars for the plugged in sound. There are lots more Legends out there at decent prices than most of the other models. The ones without preamps tend to go for lower prices. That being said, if you're trading straight across, you're getting the short end of the deal. He could sell your 05 and buy 2 Legends. So could you for that matter.
You don't want the value differences, but I don't know what else to say, other than if the decision is only going to be based on the sound, regardless of price, you should at least compare them both in a quiet place and listen to him play them both. |
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Location: USA/Maryland | Mark, I was told the exact same thing by Damon in the other thread, and I do appreciate your input. I know if I wanted to the ebay thing you would probably be correct, but I no desire to ship. Craigslist locally is a different story. I actually bought my ES for $500, sold it once for $500 and bought it back (for the same amount) a year later when he was moving to the left coast and couldn't take it. Through all those sales $500 was the best anyone could get. Neither the original seller, me or the other guy could get any interest for more. If the situation locally is still the same, I'll be basically making an even trade.
Edited by JeffR 2015-07-27 9:35 PM
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Location: USA/Maryland | I really regret selling my '75 1612. I didn't need two acoustics. I really should have sold the ES and kept the 1612. I knew it as the buyer was driving out the driveway. Hope that makes sense... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Mark in Boise - 2015-07-27 7:18 PM
you should at least compare them both in a quiet place and listen to him play them both!
I am astounded to hear other people play my guitars.
That is a totally different perspective, experience, whatever...
I appreciate that you are not concerned about $$$ Value. That is very noble of you.
My 1121 has the hand-laid bowl and sounds way better to me when I am playing it, due to the way that the bowl vibrates. If the 1117 has the same kind of bowl you may like it better than the Contour Bowl on the 2005C.
BTW-- Research shows that the 2005C Legend-Collectors MSRP was $1,999
MSRP on a 1974 Legend 1117 was $445
You would have to adjust for inflation and all that. Just saying... 
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Location: USA/Maryland | Thanks to both of you so far for your input, you've given me some good perspective to consider.
.... still looking for more 1117 info AND opinions.... anyone else? |
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Location: Jet City | The 1117 has changed over time. There were the original ones with VT bracing, then in 80 or so the A-braced version came out, then a year or two after, the neck reinforcement changed to the Kaman bar. I've had all versions, my favorite is the middle, the A-braced pre Kaman bar. You could also look for a 1119 or an Anniversary Legend (1157). They were A-braced pre-kaman bar from their conception until the early 80's. It's ridiculous how cheap I've seen the Anniversary's go for. The one I have is a similar story to your 05, bought it, sold it, bought it back.
Edited by Damon67 2015-07-27 10:58 PM
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Location: USA/Maryland | Damon, I also found a post from 2008 where you were discussing your VT braced 1117 with another member 'dobro'. Some good info there also. I didn't see where you said what year that 1117 was.
Assuming that the 1117 I'm considering is a '71, do you happen to know which version of VT bracing would be in it? Would it be more weighted to the treble end or with better bass as I have seen discussed. I believe I've read somewhere that the VT-11 had a better bass frequency response than either VT-8 or 10.
.... Obviously, I know I'm going to have to play it to know if I going to like it, but if a '71 is going to be one of the more bright/trebly (sp) one's that I DON'T want, I can save both me and the other fellow a trip.
Edited by JeffR 2015-07-28 8:35 AM
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Location: Jet City | That 1117 (F 082) was so old it wasn't even a Legend yet. They called it a Deluxe Balladeer, the bracing was slightly different than the other VT bracings documented to date. I'm pretty sure yours will be VT11
My 1117 was a cannon, seriously loud, but I found I liked the sound of the A-braces better, so eventually it went away. It lives in Italy now with another OFC member.
Now Mark In Boise up above, I remember him having a hard time putting my 1117 down, loved it, said it was the perfect 70's Ovation sound. Everyone has their preferences. |
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Location: undisclosed | I think Mark in Boise is right. You could sell your 2005 buy a 1117 and have change but I'd keep it unless space is a issue. When looking for a budget steel string the 1117 without the preamp along with the other straight acoustics go for less. Non cutaways the same thing. The models up to the mid 80s have AAA grade spruce tops. Later ones go down to a AA top. Mine is from the 80s AAA era so has the A bracing and kaman bar neck. The sound is great, the neck is a little more full than a truss rod version but still in the plays like a electric zone. With a undersaddle pickup and offboard preamp it gets a great tone. Acoustically the tone and volume is very even throughout the range. The bowl sounds fine, it does seem a bit stiffer but keeping the vibration concentrated in the top while the back projects isn't a bad recipe for volume and tone. I like the more understated look, bling is nice but doesn't improve the tone. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I don't mean to sound like we're just patting each other's backs, but what Damon said reminded me of a couple other models that you might like. The Patriots or 1157s are Legends and have an excellent Ovation sound. You might have better luck finding one of those.
I understand the concern about ebay and shipping. I much prefer trying it out, especially with an older model. It's been a while since a 2005 ES was at the top of my list, or even since I had a list, but you've got me thinking again. The only thing I didn't like was the contour bowl, but I've since gained a pot belly to match it. Lately I've been thinking about that 1617 Limited edition that Al has. |
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Location: USA/Maryland | Thanks for all the info so far guys, it all gives me some good insight...
At the moment it might all be a moot point, because I noticed this morning that the ad for 1117 has disappeared from CL. I don't know if the ad expired or if he sold it, (which was his initial intent anyway). I sent him an email for an update, waiting to hear back.
I do have a previous lead on a '73.... 1111-4 that's had some kind of stress fracture to the neck/headstock area. It's been repaired but I got a bit leery of it, so I never pursued it further. I haven't seen it in person, only an emailed pic. It would be an outright purchase, NOT a trade deal.
Edited by JeffR 2015-07-28 12:31 PM
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Location: Jet City | for a 1111....
http://ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=45179&...
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Location: USA/Maryland | Wow, she's a real beauty but outside of my budget currently. The 1111 I'm considering is a good bit less than that, and I really shouldn't do that at this point. That's another reason I was hoping for a trade deal on the 1117.
BTW.... I'd be afraid to even play that 1111 of yours. |
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Location: USA/Maryland | Got a reply from the 1117 owner. He hasn't sold it yet, he's just trying to figure out when he has time to meet. I guess he's already made up his mind.
I was actually hoping it was already sold...... you guys have me mostly talked out of the trade. Before (if) we proceed I'm going to make sure he knows this won't be a sure thing. The sound has got to jive with me if I'm going to loose my 2005C.
Edited by JeffR 2015-07-28 6:04 PM
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Location: Texas | IMO, the trade would be a very bad deal for you. You should be able to sell the 2005c, buy a 1117 elsewhere and still have a decent chunk of cash left over. 1117's are not that hard to find.
But, regardless, if you are looking for a nice-playing Ovation and find one that dates back to the early 70's/late 60's, check the neck angle very carefully before accepting it. (If the saddle appears to be extremely low in the slot, that's a red flag.) Those early O's had glued-in necks that could not be removed to perform a neck-reset without destroying the bowl &/or top. The only way to correct that problem is with a "bowl bend" which is not something you, nor the average luthier, would likely be able to do. (Do a search on "Bowl Bend" here on the forum and you'll find plenty of information.)
I bought a 1972 1117 online and was disappointed to learn about the "bowl bend" situation after-the-fact. The truss rod is max'd out, the saddle is shaved way down and the action is still higher than I'd prefer on the upper frets. Fortunately, it's still reasonably comfortable to play, it sounds fantastic and it hasn't gotten any worse in the six years that I've owned it. ymmv |
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Location: USA/Maryland | Standing.... Thanks for the technical info, I'll keep that in mind if I look at it.
About the money side of it, I'll repeat part of my earlier post, in case you didn't see it....
"I actually bought my ES for $500, sold it once for $500 and bought it back (for the same amount) a year later when he was moving to the left coast and couldn't take it. Through all those sales, $500 was the best anyone could get. Neither the original seller, me or the other guy could get any interest for more. "
That's been my experience. That's all CL, I'm not interested in the ebay/shipping thing. Based on that, do you still have the same opinion?
Edited by JeffR 2015-07-29 7:00 PM
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Location: USA/Maryland | Standing.... BTW, I replied to your PM, but it seems to be just sitting in the Outbox so I'm not sure if you'll get it or not. If not.... Thanks for the info |
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Location: Texas | JeffR - 2015-07-29 6:58 PM
Based on that, do you still have the same opinion?
My opinion doesn't matter if you like the deal.
Several other members have indicated that they think the 2005c is currently worth substantially more money than a 1972 1117, but only you know what the comparative value of each guitar is to you, especially considering your strong preference to only deal locally.
As long as you are comfortable trading a unique, limited-edition guitar for a model that was mass-produced for a total of about 25 years (admittedly with some changes in bracing, truss-rod, etc. along the way) and which may be worth as little as 25% of the one you're giving up, go for it!
JeffR - 2015-07-29 7:36 PM
Standing.... BTW, I replied to your PM, but it seems to be just sitting in the Outbox so I'm not sure if you'll get it or not. If not.... Thanks for the info
I think it stays in your outbox until it's read. It should now be in your "sent" box, since I've read it.
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Location: USA/Maryland | I'm seriously considering all the advise. We're not supposed to meet until tomorrow.
My main worry is that we'll meet, and I'll make a bad decision in the heat of the moment.... I love my 2005C, but certainly not using it to it's fullest. I'll never play out, so the electronics never get used.
I don't want to miss something structurally on the 1117 and lose my almost perfect 2005E in the process. I don't currently have the free funds to just buy his 1117, but that 1111-4 in the other post is a possibility, if I can get past the neck/headstock repair. I really prefer natural tops over sunburst, and that 1111 has a beautifully aged top.
I really considering your advise guys, thanks again. |
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Location: USA/Maryland | Speaking of bad decisions, this entire quest to find an old 70's Ovation is completely due to me selling my '75 1612 last year. One of the worst mistakes I've ever made, and I doubt if I'll ever stop regretting it. |
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Location: undisclosed | Maybe we should try this another way.... if you ever want to record something, on to your computer say, the pickup is a built in high quality microphone without any of the hassles. I only picked up a 1117 because a under saddle pickup was already installed because this is great convenience.
My guess is you'll feel the same way about the 2005 as the 1612 if you do sell. I'd start saving for the 1117, when you have enough there will still be some on the market. |
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Location: USA/Maryland | .... when I said "I don't currently have the free funds", I just meant I shouldn't be spending that much right now, but the money's available it the deal is right.
However................. I was keeping quiet until I was reasonably sure....... This entire new search for another old Ovation was to replace the 1612 I sold last year. This morning I thought, I know what I need to do. I called the fellow that bought my 1612. I told him I had a question that I probably knew the answer to, but had to ask anyway. I asked him if there was any way I could get it back. He said he'd think about it a bit and call me back. About an hour ago he called and said yes. I'll pick it up tomorrow morning.
Edited by JeffR 2015-07-30 6:17 PM
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Legend 1117-1 with an M s/n ?, info please
