|
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I know we have talked about why Ovations don't get the respect they deserve and we blame a lot on marketing and bean counters and etc...
But I think there is another culprit out there. I have been listening to a LOT of YouTube clips of Ovations over the past couple of years. I am truly amazed at how some supposed "professional" musicians can get such a LOUSY sound out of an Ovation plugged in.
BEGIN RANT HERE !!!!!
I haven't witnessed it live because the shows I have been to have had competent sound guys. Even if they use a preset starting point based on the other acoustic guitars they have seen, they are smart enough to HEAR something ain't right and CORRECT it.
What I also find interesting is that the "home video" folks inevitably sound better than some very high-end performances.
We are jaded too. When was the last time you actually listened to an Ovation and didn't auto-correct in your head to what you imagine and know it actually sounded like?
I have to admit, it must be a pretty hard sell when you hear an Ovation on stage side-by-sde with a Martin, Yamaha or whatever.. 9 times out of 10, the Ovation is gonna sound thin and tin and we KNOW that's 100% because of the sound guy. I get embarrassed when I'm the only one watching!!!
Adam just posted Yngwie Malmsteen video playing with the japanese orchestra. I'm not that big a fan of Malmsteen, but he is a fantastic player. You wouldn't know it if weren't a guitar player, and I'm guessing every non-guitar player is wondering what the hell that piece of junk is he's playing. In this video he has what I believe is a Viper and you hear more pic thunking on the nylon strings than notes. I have no idea what they were thinking, and as this is the guitar I have seen him play in numerous videos, I can only assume he's hearing something MUCH different than we are.... and that's sad, because you can only imagine the sound of what a beautiful piece of music he is actually playing.
END RANT HERE :(
FWIW... YMMV |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2006
Posts: 75
Location: San Antonio, TX | Well you did notice the little mic on the stand.. It is no wonder the picking sound was so strong. it it had plug and mic... When the lighter picked notes came through, the sound of the guitar was really nice.... It is just a poor recording for sure! sound guy should be banished to play tinker toys. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Yeah, the sound I've heard from them on many youtube clips leaves me wondering.
I've never seen an Adamas in a music shop or heard one live so I'd have a tough time kicking out the cash for one of those unless I got to play it first. I expect that's true for a lot of people.
This one does a good job of sounding like a harpsichord and, given the Vivaldi piece, it would make sense if that was the mix they were going for however, it does get blown away pretty good by the classical guitar particularly in some of the other clips from this series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TdekiMACLo&feature=related
All that said though, if I lost my 1621-4 for some reason I'd be looking for another one to replace it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Speaking of harpsichord... we all know what a tone freak David Gilmore is, and we know what a center hole Balladeer is supposed to sound like, and yet this is what we get. At least I think it's a balladeer, but that's not the point. There is no excuse for this.
http://youtu.be/8y6898YI8II
And you hit the nail on the head Joe.. "I've never seen an Adamas in a music shop or heard one live (insert except for crappy recordings) so I'd have a tough time kicking out the cash for one" |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | I have always appreciated Temp when he was playing Michael's Viper at NAMM while demonstrating a product. From observation of attendees (musicians and store owners/buyers), they would agree. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2010
Posts: 486
Location: Suisun City, Ca | Legend and Balladeer?
Pretty nice, to me at least...
America Tin man |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I would personally like to see Ovation take their electronics to a higher level. Don't get me wrong here... The OpPro Studio is leaps and bounds ahead of its predesessors, But I think it's time to look at moving ahead from the same saddle pickup. I'd like to see the addition of some kind of condensor combo like fishman, and I hate to say it, Taylor's ES. They have thought out of the box, and have experimented with a new approach. No...Don't worry, I haven't gone over to the dark side yet. Anyway... If Ovation/Adamas would experiment with some additional mic placements to their OpPro Studio idea, I believe they could really capitalize on the great natural sound we know they posess. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | While that America clip is nice, I think it's a terrible representation of "the Ovation sound" sorry, but none of my ovations are missing everything below 1K.
I found a clip of someone strumming a Balladeer and to me this sounds closer. I would have up'd the mids just a touch, but the softer mids match her vocals better. But the guitar is crisp, clean and you can hear the highs and the lows and to me that's what Ovation is all about.
I think the key is, she's using a simple camera setup and letting the Guitar speak for itself. In larger venues, all too often as we have seen and heard, an Ovation ends up sounding like crap cause the sound person is trying to correct something that isn't broken I guess. I really don't know why, and the reason doesn't matter. It just is, and it surely can't be good for sales of the guitar when 9 or 10 clips of an Ovation sound like garbage compared to other lesser guitars that are obviously processed to sound good.
We can all FIND great clips of Ovations, that's not my point. The average person with the "let me check out some Ovations on youtube" is going to be disappointed, and unfortunately that's not a fair representation.
http://youtu.be/aR7oCz6hGbk |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | ...and unfortunately, they'll probably quit looking... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | But isn't Imitation the sincerest form of Flattery?
 
Somebody must love Ovations! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
[QB] Speaking of harpsichord... we all know what a tone freak David Gilmore is, and we know what a center hole Balladeer is supposed to sound like, and yet this is what we get. At least I think it's a balladeer, but that's not the point. There is no excuse for this.
First of all. it's a Custom Legend. Secondly, there is a perfectly valid excuse. Gilmour has this guitar set up as a high-string (Nashville tuning) that's why it sounds like it does. And as a representation of that sound, it's pretty damn good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2009
Posts: 130
Location: London, UK | Just re-watching that vid. I don't think we hear the Ovation at all. At just after 3min he stops playing and puts the guitar down, whilst the thin tinny stumming continues. Seriously, that was the backup guitarist. DG was never in the mix, IMO! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Perhaps it's time to do something about the problem, by some of you good guitar players posting some good recordings on YouTube. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | sypolog;
I was thinking the same thing, that Gilmore's O wasn't in the mix that I could hear. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | There's a unique skill that experienced recording engineers have, and that's the ability to identify And isolate specific parts in a complex mix. I can clearly and distinctly hear 2 guitar parts, one of which is Gilmours high-string |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Paul is correct.
also helps to listen on something better than computer or Behringer-like speakers. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Good info...
However, it all reenforces my original point. Most people when they crank up YouTube doing a little research on maybe buying a guitar ARE listening on crappy speakers. As most sound guys know how to mix "non-Ovation" guitars, there tend to be more "other" brand guitars in clips that sound good. The majority of Ovation clips, sound like crap.
I am just making the observation. The reasons do not matter. It is, what it is. Nothing can be done about it. I just think it sucks that there are so many recordings where the engineer nuked the Ovation. I wish I had more time to "surf" but there are plenty of clips where the Ovation sounds like a toy compared the other guitar in the mix, and we all know that just isn't the case in reality.
Just pointing out that Ovation doesn't get the respect they deserve from another angle. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | unfortunately, another good (bad) example is the series of Ovation Road Show videos. I heard very few of them where the guitar actually sounded good and these videos where put up by Ovation personnel. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I find this topic interesting about "mixing" and such...
I have a Roland CubeStreet that I play outside...
People compliment the sound of my Ovations all the time.
But I am running them through an amp.
For settings I just run the Ovations through the "mic" channel with a touch of reverb.
So I ain't doing anything special...
It is just like I am running it straight into a PA.
And they still sound Great.
So? What is so difficult that people cannot get the settings right? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by stephent28:
unfortunately, another good (bad) example is the series of Ovation Road Show videos. I heard very few of them where the guitar actually sounded good and these videos where put up by Ovation personnel. I agree. But in their defense they use a basic sound system and have to get through a ton of (mostly) inexperienced players in a very short time, so "the soundcheck" is not a priority. However as the vids are supposed to be a promo for the product it seems counterproductive, so maybe cutting down on the number of performers and making sure those that are posted on line sound like they are playing a quality instrument might be an idea. Can't see it happening.
Also, a lot of it is user error. It's amazing how many people don't understand the funcions of the onboard preamps, never mind a mixing console. Or just pick up the guitar, plug it in and don't even consider how the preamps controls are set. There's a lot to be said for ditching all the bells and whistles and going for preset EQ and a volume knob. I know from doing sound at gigs, when someone plugs in a good guitar that sounds like crap and I'll say something like "can you cut the midrange a little, boost the highs and give me a little more gain" and they just stare blankly........Get into preamps with semi-parametric midrange and you're asking for trouble |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | On a somewhat related note, the Zoom A1 pedal has modeling settings of different guitars...a couple of Martins, a couple of Gibsons, a Tacoma, and surprisingly an Adamas. All the settings are different, but mostly rich and full, except the Adamas....it sounds thin and flat, nothing like a real Adamas. In fact, the setting that most appeals to me is the Tacoma, and I don't even know what those really sound like. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | My bandmate had a pair of Tacomas, a spruce/koa jumbo and a spruce/hog mini jumbo. The Koa had a Baggs element system, and the other a B-band. Both were great guitars acoustically and amplified. When we did our US gigs back in April we were using mostly loaner Ovation and Adamas (thanks to Cliff and Beal) He was so taken with them (especially the longneck Adamas) that as soon as we got back to the UK he sold both Tacomas and replaced them with an Longneck Elite and an LX Balladeer. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | One of the most valuable information sessions I've ever attended was at one of the Amelia workshops where Temp explained "unity gain" in the sound chain. I sure wish there were more opportunities for good sound engineers to share some of their knowledge with us. As pointed out in this forum, sometimes there is just simply not sufficient time to perform quality sound checks and adjustment. With so many different controls in the chain, there is a lot of room for error. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
I'll say something like "can you cut the midrange a little, boost the highs and give me a little more gain" and they just stare blankly...... +1 or just as bad (and this applies to guitar amps as well) you get the "So-n-So (insert unknown local legend artist name here) who I met once set this up, and I haven't changed these settings in 20 years" or something similar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I guess I didn't think about it much before, but when I'm playing through the house sound system, I'm at the mercy of who ever is running sound that week. If he doesn't know what he's doing, no matter what I adjust on my equipment and hear through the Aviom is probably not what' comes through the house. That kinda' sucks. |
|
| |
Why they don't get the respect...
