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| Greetings. I’ve been lingering for the past week or so and gleaning some great information, but some feedback would be greatly appreciated. Bit of background: Years ago, I always had one or two guitars in the shop. That got spendy & things didn’t always get done the way I wanted. So I purchased tools and learned how to do most of my own work (and have even ruined a few things along the way). Now, friends bring their instruments over. Last week, in comes my first Breadwinner (I've gotta have one now...). It’s been custom painted and is in pieces. I’d really appreciate any feedback you guys might have – mostly regarding the nut and bridge.
It doesn't look like I can past in pics here, so I'll attach them at the end if I can.
The Bridge: He brought two bridges to me, one w/brass saddles, and one w/Nylon. The one with Nylon Saddles fits on the receiving studs much cleaner – and has holes that are beveled, so I think I’ll go with that one. When I thread the nut from the back onto the threaded screw, the string holes dip down below the top of the guitar if I snug it down – so I’m assuming that this should only turned so that the this bridge balances on the studs, and that string tension keeps the bridge feeling snug while in playing position. Does it sound like I’m on track here?
The nut / nut seat: There is currently no nut on this neck, and it appears like this headstock may have been slightly modified/sanded. The owner brought two nuts, but neither are correct (both sit too low). The odd thing, at least to me, is there’s no slot to seat the nut. And it looks like it had a ¼” wide/thick nut at some point. Can anyone comment on stock width (thickness, as opposed to length), and if they are slot seated? I’ve been considering going with 3/16” width and filing a new slot – but would really like get things close to how they were intended.
Pickups. First, we went with a clear pick guard (ordered from WD) to show off the paint. When assembling, I noticed the slugs on the neck pickup were inverted. So I figured I goofed and would just flip it. But no…. there’s two plate screw holes on the left, and only one on the right. So I have it oriented correctly – so I’m either working with two bridge pickups here, or someone along the way modded the neck PU and inverted it on the plate when they put it back together. Here’s another tid-bit - there were two black wires (in addition to 1 red + ground) and only one out of the neck. But I see no open or missing connections on the board, so it kinda looks right (even though it seems kinda wrong). FYI - out of the circuit, DC on the bridge is 8.3k and the neck reads 7.8k. Any/all comments welcome.
Thanks to all in advance!
Pete
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | PeteJ - 2016-07-10 12:09 PM
The Bridge: He brought two bridges to me, one w/brass saddles, and one w/Nylon. The one with Nylon Saddles fits on the receiving studs much cleaner – and has holes that are beveled, so I think I’ll go with that one. When I thread the nut from the back onto the threaded screw, the string holes dip down below the top of the guitar if I snug it down – so I’m assuming that this should only turned so that the this bridge balances on the studs, and that string tension keeps the bridge feeling snug while in playing position. Does it sound like I’m on track here?
Sounds like you are on track. The only real difference in those two bridges is the saddles and a slight design difference of the height adjustment screws. Sounds like it might be a fairly early model which is when they used the nylon saddles.
PeteJ - 2016-07-10 12:09 PM
The nut / nut seat: There is currently no nut on this neck, and it appears like this headstock may have been slightly modified/sanded. The owner brought two nuts, but neither are correct (both sit too low). The odd thing, at least to me, is there’s no slot to seat the nut. And it looks like it had a ¼” wide/thick nut at some point. Can anyone comment on stock width (thickness, as opposed to length), and if they are slot seated? I’ve been considering going with 3/16” width and filing a new slot – but would really like get things close to how they were intended.
Nut is 5/8" tall and 1/8" wide. It should sit exactly from the lower edge of the truss cover, to the fretboard. Yeah, it's bit nut.
PeteJ - 2016-07-10 12:09 PM
Pickups. First, we went with a clear pick guard (ordered from WD) to show off the paint. When assembling, I noticed the slugs on the neck pickup were inverted. So I figured I goofed and would just flip it. But no…. there’s two plate screw holes on the left, and only one on the right. So I have it oriented correctly – so I’m either working with two bridge pickups here, or someone along the way modded the neck PU and inverted it on the plate when they put it back together. Here’s another tid-bit - there were two black wires (in addition to 1 red + ground) and only one out of the neck. But I see no open or missing connections on the board, so it kinda looks right (even though it seems kinda wrong). FYI - out of the circuit, DC on the bridge is 8.3k and the neck reads 7.8k. Any/all comments welcome.
Pretty hard to swap them around.. Which pickups are they? The large Toroidal (they should be if all the parts are from one with Nylon saddle) or mini humbuckers?
If toroidal, they are only attached to the plate with double-sided sticky.. Anyway, when mounted should look like this...
 The mounting screws for the pickups of that era were domes flat-head style like the ones on the neck pickup above. The phillips screws on the bridge pickup above are not correct for the era if you want to get picky. When you respond, someone will update you to full member and you can post in the main section and add pictures. I'll move this thread there as well. |
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| Thank you very much Mr. Ovation! Great info and I appreciate the response. The pickups in your photo definitely match what’s on this guitar – Toroidal…. The double sided tape used to mount to the pickup to the plate is particularly pleasing to hear - I’ll see if I can carefully separate the plate from that neck PU and simply flip it around. Will let you know how that goes.
The nut specs aren’t quite what I was expecting. 5/8” tall is up there - but then again I have no experience with these guitars. If I don’t cut a slot for seating the nut on this guitar, my estimate is this nut will come in around 5/16” tall when finished. Only half the height of yours.
I’d love to see a pic of the nut on one of these taken from the side - if anyone has one. I’ve searched the web, but everything I find is straight on or from a 45ish degree angle.
I am definitely having fun working with this guitar. The electronics sorta baked my noodle – as there were a bunch of broken wires and weak joints etc. and I was paranoid that if I hosed up board, I might not be able to find a replacement. It was a huge relief to put the soldering iron away.
Will post some pics when permitted. The finish and clear pickguard are pretty wild.
Cheers,
Pete
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Location: Jet City | Pete, I don't have an older one like this, but I've updated your status so you can post in the main sections. Only a very few members have access to respond here in the Welcome section
Welcome to the club, and NICE AXE! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Here ya go. This guitar is a little older than yours, as it's one of the first 10 built. Didn't notice but under scrutiny there is a slot.
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Location: Upper Left USA | http://www.ovationtribute.com/Electric%20Series/Breadwinner%20&%20Deacon/Breadwinner%20&%20Deacon%20Series.html Here is the link to Jerome's site with several photos of Breadwinners (and everything else).
Edited by MWoody 2016-07-13 8:04 AM
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Location: Utah | I've refretted my Deacon and Viper. The Deacon had a shallow nut slot but the Viper did not. Interesting that there'd be a difference. Anyhow, I was not the first to refret the Deacon, nor did either guitar have the original nut, so I couldn't say conclusively there was always a slot for the nut on the Deacon.
The first pic is of the Deacon during the process of replacing the binding. The second photo is of the Viper neck after sanding the fretboard before installing new frets. For the life of me I can never figure out how to post photos onto this form, so just copy/paste the urls.
http://ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=62&...
http://ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=62&...
Edited by FlySig 2016-07-13 9:18 AM
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| You guys are all so Niiiiiice. 
Those and the pics FlySig posted are worth a thousand words. They tell me I need to cut a new nut slot (cause this neck doesn't have one) and thanks to Mr. Ovations specs, I know the size. Money!
I still haven't had time to monkey with that neck pickup (plate orientation) because my house has been full of contractors. But will and post back.
I'm going to check the "Attach a file after posting" box before hitting Submit and see if it lets me upload some photo's of this project.
Pete out
Edited by PeteJ 2016-07-13 7:48 PM
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| The pic of the two bridges is too big to upload....
Edited by PeteJ 2016-07-13 8:20 PM
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Location: Utah | It is possible you've got a Viper neck on that Breadwinner body. Or perhaps there was a time period when they made Breadwinners without a slot. In any case, I wouldn't cut a slot unless you really want to for some functional reason. |
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| FlySig - 2016-07-14 9:22 AM
It is possible you've got a Viper neck on that Breadwinner body. Or perhaps there was a time period when they made Breadwinners without a slot. In any case, I wouldn't cut a slot unless you really want to for some functional reason.
Wow. That never even crossed my mind - but it could certainly explain some discrepancies I've observed.
My experience making and seating nuts is pretty limited. By the end of last summer I had about 15 under my belt and was just starting to feel comfortable in what I was doing. Most were Fender style and only a couple of Gibby's. But all were seated in a slot - and that's where I did most of my finish work. I've never affixed a nut to a guitar without a slot...
After Seeing some of the work you've tackled, I'm going to take your recommendation seriously and look into how to properly do that. I really appreciate all the feedback!
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Pete, as you will come to find out, if you haven't already... It's hard to put the words consistent and Ovation in the same sentence unless the sentence is "there are consistently variations in each model." I just looked and I have a box of Ovation necks, many early breadwinner necks, and none of them have slots. My Deacon does not have a slot. Just a guess, but at some point they must have realized that you don't really need a slot and just stopped doing them. Between the pressure of the strings, the truss cover and a drop of glue on the bottom of the nut, they didn't go anywhere. |
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| Perfect! Being someone who doesn't know anything about these guitars, it is extremely helpful to hear from people who have good examples, points of reference, and are in the know. You guys talked up enough that I'm gonna see if I can knock this out this weekend providing I don't get grandkid duty.
FOLLOW UP on the pickup orientation: You were spot on Mr. O! I was able to easily pry the neck pickup off the plate and flip it around - wires are still on the right side... and I was able to do it with the base still mounted on the pickguard. It's going to need some additional adhesion to secure it however. My hunch is that it merely came apart at some point and someone stuck it back on backwards.
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | The originals had this 3/8"-ish double-sided grey foam stuff that just deteriorated over time. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Just like Mr. O said, I pried off the old nut on my UK2, put a drop of glue on the new one, let it dry a bit and then put the strings on. I only have the most rudimentary guitar repair skills and it was easy for me. It was a replacement nut from the factory, so I didn't have to cut it to size or cut slots in it. |
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Hey guys. Thanks for all the guidance & suggestions - it really helped me get this guitar put together and dialed in. This is one cool forum. I was sweating bullets working on that circuit board, but am real happy with how everything turned out overall. Love the variety of tones with this switching system. I'm thinking it'd be nice to have a Deacon in my own collection - so I've started keeping an eye out.
Cheers,
Pete
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | That "I musta been Stoned" finish actually looks good.
Don't try this yourself on a $1K Deacon. 
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Schweet |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I agree with OMA. That psychedelic paint Job grows on me. Is it paint or a wrap? Welcome to the OFC, and nice work on the rebuild. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | ProfessorBB - 2016-07-29 7:13 AM
I agree with OMA. That psychedelic paint Job grows on me. Is it paint or a wrap? Welcome to the OFC, and nice work on the rebuild.
+1 it really does!
Beautiful Job, Well done Pete! And Welcome! |
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Location: Jet City | cool... i'm diggin' it |
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| ProfessorBB - 2016-07-29 7:13 AM
I agree with OMA. That psychedelic paint Job grows on me. Is it paint or a wrap? Welcome to the OFC, and nice work on the rebuild.
Thanks Guys. It was hand painted then Lacquer clear coated. If you google Jolie Frank Art, you'll find a bunch of her stuff out there. She lives in the Portland, OR area and has a great set of pipes on her as well - she's got a band that intermittently plays around town named the Jolie Frank Trio.
BTW, another musician friend of mine who's notorious for one liners left me with this one last night (first time I've heard it): A guy walks into a music store and says I'd like a set of strings for my Ovation. The guy behind the counter replies Okay, that sounds like a fair trade...
Pete |
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Location: Indiana | Would have been a great addition to the Partridge Family.
Good job, Pete. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | PeteJ - 2016-07-30 10:31 AM
BTW, another musician friend of mine who's notorious for one liners left me with this one last night (first time I've heard it): A guy walks into a music store and says I'd like a set of strings for my Ovation. The guy behind the counter replies Okay, that sounds like a fair trade...
Pete
LMAO!!!!!! That is GREAT!!!! LOL!!!!  |
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Greetings & hoping for some Breadwinner info
