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Location: VA | Hi everyone! Another Ovation fanatic here!
I am in possession of a C778LX Custom Elite; Op-Pro Studio with XLR output; Serial Number: 592576 (Year of Manufacture: 2004), which I obtained from EBay, March of 2012.
Recently I’ve been interested in utilizing the XLR connection while having it fire up the Ovation’s preamp via Phantom Power. Having the correct XLR cable – Pin-1 ground to shell, have double checked the continuity with ohm meter; Phantom Power turned on at my audio interface; 48 volts from a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 audio interface, I haven’t for the life of me been able to figure out why I wasn’t getting Phantom Power to the C778LX’s preamp, that is until I came across the following post elsewhere on this forum: http://ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=31005&... …thanks for heads up on that one DVD.
Even though I’d seen the above post before, I was hoping that someone somewhere was making an error on this. For how could such a technological design, engineered to provide a noise free acoustic guitar connection to an audio interface with capability for extending battery longevity by providing Phantom Power to the guitar’s preamp, be intentionally crippled by not including the complete requirements to do so?
Here is Matt Smith & Ovation Guitars demonstrating a C2078LX on Youtube. If you run the clock up to: 2:05, Matt describes the Op-Pro Studio with XLR and at: 3:20 he clearly states that the XLR connection is capable of receiving Phantom Power for powering the preamp. Then again, maybe he’s never tried the connection and is as bamboozled as the rest of us. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxSmU5e_VeI
It just doesn’t make any sense, especially having a guitar equipped with a preamp advertised as: Op-Pro Studio ‘WITH’ XLR.
After several readings of Ovation’s description referencing the: Op-Pro Studio ‘with’ XLR Preamp, I decided to fire off an email to Ovation requesting a clarification to the following ambiguity in their ad:
..…The XLR jack provides a balanced line connection to mixers, recording consoles, and high-end acoustic amps. It also provides phantom power to the OP-Pro—an essential feature for touring professionals…..
The above definition falls under the heading: Op-Pro Studio ‘with’ XLR, but seems to be excluding it when it comes to describing Phantom Power capabilities, by stating that it ‘also’ provides Phantom Power to the Op-Pro.
Seems I was under a false impression regarding the Op-Pro Studio with XLR capabilities, which cunningly implied a capacity for Phantom Power - it’s part of the XLR technology, so one subconsciously assumes. Sadly, my discoveries have led to the fact that XLR here is meant only to describe the addition of an XLR fitting that has been added which is NOT capable of receiving Phantom Power, but requires the presence of a 9-volt battery to power the preamp.
I posted the question to: askus@ovationguitars.com 10/11. Still waiting for a reply, but I think I know what their answer will be now.
This then means that in order to obtain a Phantom Powered preamp, I must retrofit my C778LX with the older model “Op-Pro” that has the capability, even though the Studio with XLR is a much newer; better performer with additional functions built into the circuitry. But if you do a lot of plugging into an audio interface, via XLR, it will gobble up 9-volt batteries like crazy, unless you unplug it every single minute you take a break; as soon as the XLR cable is plugged in, the circuitry begins draining the battery.
Therefore, I’m keeping my eye out on eBay and hope that maybe here also, someone might have an Op-Pro - XLR module with proper working Phantom Power, they would be willing to part with that I can drop into my guitar’s existing canister: http://www.ovationguitars.com/electronics/product/op_pro preferably one from a USA model Ovation.
Thanks…very frustrated, but I still very much love this guitar.
Edited by ddpruett 2012-10-23 12:08 AM
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Location: VA | Well DVD, I managed to snatch the “New” Op Pro from the jaws of Hurricane Sandy. No one else bid on the eBay item, so I snagged it at the, great, price of the opening bid! The bidding ended a couple of hours after Sandy made landfall, Monday evening of the 29th.
With lights flickering on and off throughout the afternoon and evening of the finale day, and seller living on the water’s edge in Maryland and I in Virginia, the hyper weather channel churning the public’s mind as madly as Sandy the water’s of the Atlantic, seems I panicked unnecessarily. Seller just issued an, all is well, and sent me a tracking number. So I should have the new Op Pro in my C788LX within a day or two.
I’ll post back after I get it installed and checked out.
Thanks DVD for your helmsmanship in answering my incessant questions.
Happy pickin’ and a grinnin’ folks!
Edited by ddpruett 2012-10-30 1:32 PM
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Location: VA | Is there a difference in XLR PCB’s?
I just received Op-Pro from eBay seller, both can and module. Since the Op-Pro Studio/XLR it is replacing, is not designed to carry Phantom Power to the preamp, could this then have guided manufacturing decisions to exclude some possible XLR components from the Studio/XLR version of the PCB?
I’ve installed the Op-Pro, module and can, but the preamp is not getting Phantom Power from my Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 audio interface/mixer; yes Phantom Power is turned on; I have the correct XLR cable, Planet Waves, with pin-1 ground tied to shell of connector, I’ve doubled checked this with ohm/volt meter on both ends. I’ve even checked to make sure I’m getting sufficient volts; the unit is rated at 48 volts, with 44.8 volts actual.
Since the Focusrite and XLR cable check out okay, the Op-Pro having been sold as a ‘new’ unit, I’m inclined to think maybe the preexisting Studio/XLR PCB might be lacking a required component preventing the preamp from receiving Phantom Power from the Focusrite.
Does this mean I’ll now need to chase down a qualifying version of an XLR PCB?
I’ve read everything that’s popped up from a search on the term “XLR PCB”. I’ve seen a couple of ‘fuzzy’ pictures of a PCB presented in an XLR installation, so it was hard to make comparisons to what I have. I did take a picture of the Studio/XLR PCB, but can’t see how to post it, if that matters.
If anyone here has been down this path, or knows what is required, please chime in.
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-02 11:43 PM
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Location: Utah | dd, wish I could help definitively but I no longer have a Studio equipped guitar. As I recall, though, I was not able to get phantom power to work on the Studio. I don't remember if it works for the VIP preamp, I always use the dummy plug. The XLR and 1/4" jack are on a single module, and really I doubt it would be worth having different modules manufactured for the sake of saving a penny or two on a resistor or diode. I have always just used a dummy plug in the 1/4" jack when using the XLR output on my VIP equipped Adamas, and that is what I did with the 2007BCS with Studio preamp before I sold it. The dummy plug turns on the internal battery, but the signal goes out via the XLR cable. The dummy plug is any normal 2 conductor 1/4" guitar plug. A stereo 3 conductor plug will not work.
You could try probing the contacts in the bottom of the empty preamp receiving can to see if the phantom power is reaching the preamp contacts. That would tell you if the circuit is there at all. If there is voltage available to the preamp but it is not accepting it, the issue would be that the preamp is not in fact designed to use external power.
As a caution, my Studio preamp burned out. I don't know why, and there is no visible damage to the circuit components. These days electronics aren't user repairable! Anyhow, this was the preamp with which I was messing around with phantom power. I purchased the preamp separately, not with a guitar, and so it was not covered by a lifetime warranty. Had it been in a guitar purchased new by me it would have had a warranty and the factory may have replaced it (if they decided I had not abused it). It is possible I abused it by trying to force it to take phantom power, and that may have led to a premature death. So I would advise caution until you have something in writing from the factory about whether the Studio is designed to take full phantom power.
Edited by FlySig 2012-11-03 10:17 AM
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Location: VA | Thanks for input FlySig. I know that the Op-Pro Studio with XLR was not equipped to send Phantom Power to the preamp, which I found out late, and is why I recently snagged the Op-Pro. I’ve tried the dummy plug, even though the Planet Waves XLR cable I’m using has the proper pin-1 ground to shield, but still no indication, via the bi-colored LED, that the preamp is receiving Phantom Power.
Thinking that perhaps the green side of the bi-colored LED might be dead, I pulled the battery to test this possibility and still no Phantom Power, leading me to my suspicions above regarding possible differences in the PCB components that hold both XLR and ¼ inch jacks.
I wouldn’t put it past a manufacturer to exclude such, apparently, insignificant components to push the bottom-line between different models, but this certainly does pose a nightmare for a customer wishing to upgrade, downgrade or sidegrade.
Without a schematic, I'd be a little bit nervous, blindly, probing the contacts you mention.
I spent most of last night and early this morning plowing through this site hoping that someone had possibly posted images of a PCB from an Ovation that came equipped with XLR functioning Op-Pro, so that I could compare components present on its PCB with the one that came in my 2004 Custom Elite LX, an Op-Pro Studio with XLR, to see if I could spot any obvious variations between the two. Unfortunately I was unable to locate such.
Thanks again for your help!
David
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-03 3:35 PM
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Location: VA | ddpruett - 2012-11-03 3:13 PM
..... PCB from an Ovation that came equipped with XLR functioning Op-Pro......
Clarification to last paragraph of above post:
....jack PCB that came equipped with functioning 'PHANTOM POWER' on XLR equipped Op-Pro....
Sorry!
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-03 4:15 PM
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Location: closely held secret | Here's a thread that has a couple pics from my XLR upgrade a few years back.
Here's a pic of the PCB after it was installed. Maybe it will help.
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Location: VA | Waskel@Work - 2012-11-04 9:41 AM
Here's a pic of the PCB after it was installed. Maybe it will help.
Thanks Waskel!
That's the fuzzy pic I was referring to. I've seen that and from what I can vaguely determine, comparing it to the PCB my C778LX has with 'Op-Pro Studio/XLR' installed, the PCB appears to be quite different, missing 2 capacitors and a couple of resistors. But, as I said, fuzzy pic is difficult to see other components, which might also be missing. As far as I can tell, the PCB does look different and would explain why the swap out to the Op-Pro/XLR is not receiving Phantom Power, meaning that I need a different PCB, one that is Phantom Power compliant.
I wish I could post a pic of what I have to get a solid confirmation. I'll try again see if I can use: Attach a file after posting, to get a picture of what I have up.
One other question Waskel. The pic of the PCB you posted, does the guitar its in have functioning Phantom Power?
Thanks for your help!
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-04 2:52 PM
 (XLR PCB side by side.jpg)
 (C778LX PCB ddp.jpg)
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 XLR PCB side by side.jpg (74KB - 5 downloads)
C778LX PCB ddp.jpg (98KB - 5 downloads)
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Wow, good find. Definitely some components on Waskel's board that aren't on yours. Looks like they're all called out on the PBC... suppose you could put them on yourself if if you're handy with a soldering iron. Now I'll have to go peek at my PBC's and see which one I've got! |
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Location: VA | dvd - 2012-11-04 2:47 PM
....Looks like they're all called out on the PBC... suppose you could put them on yourself if if you're handy with a soldering iron...
Yes I could stitch them in, but I'm still uncertain of other components that might be missing. It would be much nicer if I could get a bona fide, Phantom Power, ready made PCB.
There appear to be at least 5 empty slots on mine. I guess it wouldn't hurt anything to fill them ALL out! I might add features nobody even knew existed. 
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-04 3:24 PM
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Location: VA | dvd - 2012-11-04 2:47 PM
...if if you're handy with a soldering iron....
Without a proper schematic, it’s impossible to determine some resistor values, since they come in a variety of wattages and there being no color code to determine this.
***
Place-names: R307 & R308 call for 1.8K resistors each.
Place-name: R309 (Don’t know what this might be.)
The two missing capacitors are easy enough:
470-microfarad 16-volt
47-microfarad 50-volt
There also appear to be 2 missing diodes with designations:
IN474IR
and
OP50 : 1N5817
***
Too many unknowns DVD, I’m afraid if I were to precede blindly inserting components here, upon plugging in and switching on, I just might end up with ‘real’ life-like flame-top finish!
It would be nice to see a pic of a PCB with known functioning Phantom Power; this might help in determining component values somewhat.
All in all, I count 7 missing components. Whether or not all are required to implement Phantom Power is a mystery.
I pulled the PCB for another photo, here’s a better pic, which reveals another diode marker that was obscured by the ribbon cable in the other.
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-04 5:46 PM
 (XLR PCB No PhantPwr ddp.jpg)
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XLR PCB No PhantPwr ddp.jpg (99KB - 7 downloads)
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Location: VA | Looking at these images, I hope that all 3 capacitors present, aren't indication of leaking, evidenced by the dried up goop surounding each. Oh boy! When it rains it pours!
I hope that's not the case and that what this might be is some sort caulk for stabilization purposes.
Any thoughts on this?
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-05 12:10 AM
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Location: VA | dvd - 2012-11-04 2:47 PM
...Looks like they're all called out on the PBC...
My research results thus far:
I’ve located a possible diode for marker: D1 on the PCB, with type designator: 1N5817 See link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0086FCG8U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?i...
Or Here:
http://www.futurlec.com/Diodes/1N5817pr.shtml
As for the zener diode, at marker: ZD1, with type designator: 1N4741R, there is no such animal to be found anywhere. I suspect it must have been phased out and replaced by another specification a long time ago. There is a 1N4741A, and a 1N4741. Don’t know what the differences might be between the 3, and whether or not they’d be interchangeable.
The 2 missing 1.8K resisters shouldn’t be very difficult.
The blank spot at: R309 remains a mystery, with only the qualifier: 100 above it.
As for the goopy looking stuff around the caps, nothing to worry about. It's a silicon based material, used either to secure the caps to the PCB prior to being soldered, or as dampening material to prevent vibration, risking failure in adjacent trace material, or connection to the PCB after.
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-05 2:57 AM
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Location: VA | I'm still hoping someone might have a decent picture of one of their XLR PCB's with known functioning Phantom Power, they can post. If I can get a good view of the required components present, compared to what's missing on my board, I might be able to build mine up, provided all of the components required are available.
I've nailed the 2x caps, 2x resistors, 1x diode, leaving 2 other items a mystery. Of course, it might not be necessary to fill in all of the blank slots to implement Phantom Power - See Above.
If not, I should seek out a contact and phone number within Ovation Customer Services, to see if one of these items can had. Either way, a photo comparison still would be nice for future reference.
Thanks!
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-07 5:03 PM
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Location: VA | Unable to contact mother ship, is this normal?
I’ve been trying for 2 weeks to contact Kim Keller, or the other extension, so I can order a new XLR compliant jackboard, but unable to break through to human, without constant redirection to voicemail or request to send detailed email, which I’ve done.
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Location: VA | Thanks to John Budney, customer service manager over at Ovation Guitars, my prayers have been answered. I was provided a correct jack-board, with all of the prerequisite components soldered to the PCB, providing my C778LX with functioning Phantom Power.
Why this feature was not incorporated within the Op-Pro Studio XLR is still beyond me.
The jack-board on the left is the one that replaced the jack-board on the right. As you can see, there’s a considerable difference between the two: The one on the left providing Phantom Power, while the one on the right had XLR, but no Phantom Power.
I now have a functioning Phantom Power circuit when I connect the Ovation to my Focusrite audio interface via the XLR jack. No more need to worry about rapidly depleted 9-volt batteries when forgetting to pull the XLR jack while taking short breaks.
Also, thank you DVD for all of your pointers via PM’s. |
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Location: VA | Thanks to John Budney, customer service manager over at Ovation Guitars, my prayers have been answered. I was provided a correct jack-board, with all of the prerequisite components soldered to the PCB, providing my C778LX with functioning Phantom Power.
Why this feature was not incorporated within the Op-Pro Studio XLR is still beyond me.
The jack-board on the left is the one that replaced the jack-board on the right. As you can see, there’s a considerable difference between the two: The one on the left providing Phantom Power, while the one on the right had XLR, but no Phantom Power.
I now have a functioning Phantom Power circuit when I connect the Ovation to my Focusrite audio interface via the XLR jack. No more need to worry about rapidly depleted 9-volt batteries when forgetting to pull the XLR jack while taking short breaks.
Also, thank you DVD for all of your pointers via PM’s.
 (New-Old XLR PCB side by side sm2.jpg)
 (Op Pro Phantom Power sm.jpg)
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New-Old XLR PCB side by side sm2.jpg (98KB - 8 downloads)
Op Pro Phantom Power sm.jpg (94KB - 5 downloads)
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Well done, David! I can't recall anybody ever realizing that there were different jack PBC's and that they had varying capabilities. Now I have to go check my XLR-equipped guitars to see whether they have the phantom-power-enabled boards! I suspect if you pop your OP-Pro Studio in now, it may very well work as well. |
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Location: VA | dvd - 2012-11-30 11:14 PM
.....I suspect if you pop your OP-Pro Studio in now, it may very well work as well.
Maybe, but absent the Phantom Power indicator led circuitry, it would be difficult to test this, apart from leaving the XLR cable jacked in with Phantom Power switched on at the source, one could observe if the 9-volt battery expired unusually early.
But, from what we’ve learned here, seeing how ‘unnecessary’ components were left off the jack-board PCB, I would suspect the same kind of thinking would have applied to the PCB circuitry within the Op-Pro Studio/XLR; since Phantom Power wasn’t a required feature, components required to implement it here also, might be lacking as well.
When I swapped out the Op-Pro Studio preamp/canister assembly, I noticed also that the ‘Power Boost’ jack on the back of the OP-Pro Studio canister was absent as well. Another 'unnecessary' componet flag suggesting the internal PCB’s of two preamps themselves could, more than likely, be very dissimilar.
Edited by ddpruett 2012-11-30 11:42 PM
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Location: Utah | My OpPro Studio died a very early death. I was liberally swapping preamps around in all of our guitars, at least one of which had phantom power. So it is possible the Studio was overstressed by phantom power. Ergo I would not recommend experimenting with it. |
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Location: VA | FlySig - 2012-12-01 10:51 AM
My OpPro Studio died a very early death. I was liberally swapping preamps around in all of our guitars, at least one of which had phantom power. So it is possible the Studio was overstressed by phantom power. Ergo I would not recommend experimenting with it.
A BIG thanks for the heads-up on that one!!!
Edited by ddpruett 2012-12-01 1:48 PM
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Location: Italia, Zianigo di Mirano (Venezia) | ...good.I have a question : (1): OP-PRO-STUDIO (with is can)
(2): OP-PRO-STUDIO (with is can) with XLR
Well. I understand that the can of (2) has the PCB different from the can of (1) . But the OP-PRO-STUDIO,(only the OP-PRO-STUDIO) are equals?
Edited by titti191730cm 2012-12-28 10:23 AM
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | This has been a VERY interesting read and I commend mr Pruett for his consistent updates.
Thank you. |
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C778LX Custom Elite Looking For Op-Pro XLR with Phantom Power
