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Joined:
March 2004
Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | There has been one or two threads on excessive fret wear of late and while changing strings the other day I noticed how much fret wear has occurred on my S771 since I bought it new in March of 2004. I play this guitar alot. It's my favorite guitar to play and I guess I probably average 2 to 3 hours a day.
I could also probably be indefensibly accused of having a death grip, so I don't have any beefs about the amount of wear being abnormal. My 29 year old Stratocaster has more fret wear than this and definitely needs a fret job, and even though the S771 does take a stronger grip than the strat, this does seem to be wearing faster than I would like. I like .011's on both, although I tend to switch back and forth between .011's and .012's on the S771.
I'm just a hobbyist, if you will, and I play purely for the enjoyment of it. I guess what I'm interested in knowing is how much fret wear is acceptable, in your opinion, before having work done on them. So here are a few pictures for you to judge. Thanks.
-Rick |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Wow....to me, that's alot of wear for only a year. I wonder....would the divots in the fretboard cause the note to sound sharp because of having to push the string down further? And would this be more of an issue than moderate fret wear?
Those are very descriptive pictures Rick. Good job. |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | I would suggest emailing a pic to Kim at the factory repair shop and asking him what you can do. Seems like the 2 options are a fretbd leveling and fret dressing with the worst frets replaced, or just replace the neck. I wonder which would be cheaper? Since you say this is your favorite, it's worth inquiring. Maybe they'll have some mercy ($$) since it is only a year old. John <>{ |
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June 2004
Posts: 580
Location: NW NJ | My goodness, that divot at the E string, 2nd fret is a whopper! You gotta be squeezing that thing way too hard. O's are known for being easy playing acoustics, so maybe when you get your baby tended to and she comes back home, you can practice seeing how lightly you can do your fingerings without fret buzz. Looking at those divots makes me hurt for your fingers AND the fret board! |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I would guess the divots come from your nails scxratching at the wood, over and over.....
That's a separate issue from the fret wear I would guess. |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | wow
how about a closeup of your fretting hand |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | I play a couple hours a day (most days), but it's spread over several guitars (can't play just one). My Elite is just starting to get some fretware in the cowboy chord area, but it's sixteen years old.
Wow. |
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January 2004
Posts: 338
Location: SE Michigan | The fret wear doesnt look that severe yet to me. I would say that it's time for a fret job when things start buzzing and you can't control it by adjusting the action. The fretboard divots are quite impressive though. My old Legend looked like that after about ten years. I sent it to the factory, they refretted it and sanded the fretboard flat. It was good as new.
One thing I have always been suspicious of (but can't prove) is that certain brands or types of strings are harder on frets than others. Stands to reason that a harder alloy string will grind away more severely on a fret than a softer alloy string. For example, Martin SP's plate the high E and B string with brass (soft). Many other brands are only steel.
Once, many many years ago I put a set of nickle electric guitar strings on my Legend. I wanted to see what they would sound like and also was too cheap to buy a bronze set. Anyway, I could swear that after a few weeks they chewed away a lot of fret material. So maybe it's your strings. But from the looks of the fretboard you need to lighten up a bit on your grip. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | I agree that the fret wear doesn't seem as significant as the wear into the rosewood. Six months ago, I received my Custom Legend back from the factory where I sent it for a crack repair and neck reset. The frets were dressed as part of the normal service. The frets now look similar to yours, but the fretboard is pristine.
So, at the risk of sounding patronizing, I suggest that your problem has everything to do with left hand technique. You might benefit by getting some lessons from a good pro teacher who can help analyze that technique and help you modify it. It will take some time and a lot of disciplined practice to change your habits, but your guitars will benefit.
I also tend to agree that such a fierce technique might throw notes a few cents off true pitch. |
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March 2004
Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | Thanks for all the replies. Its interesting because the lighting I chose for the pictures really highlights the fret wear and especially the fretboard wear. The fretboard wear probably looks worse in the pictures that what it actually is.
To Slipkid, I don't think the fretboard wear plays much of a factor in sound because the wear is off to the sides of where the string sits, so directly under the string is not really worn away.
I think Bill is right that alot of the fretboard wear is due to fingernails. I try to keep them as short as possible, but I need some to support the pads on my fingertips. If I cut them too short then my fingers get sore pretty quickly. Otherwise I can play as long as I want to for the most part without any discomfort. A year or so ago someone posted about the fingers on their fretting hand being longer than the other hand and that is definitely the case with me. I'm sure its mainly due to the thickness of the callous or pads that have developed over the years.
The fret wear itself doesn't seem to affect playability and I don't have any problems with fret buzz when I'm able to land my fingers correctly. I have played around with neck and shim adjustments some and even though I tend to try to stretch too much life out of each set of strings to the point of wearing pretting impressive grooves in them as well, even when using very old strings I don't really have any buzzing issues. It may be that not changing strings enough may add to fret wear since the flat spots on the strings create more surface area contact. I've pretty much settled on Elixir nanowebs and the extended life may contribute to that, but they do sound good for a long time.
Brian, if that was you that posted before and after pictures of the scalloped fretboard a couple of weeks ago, then I agree, the mothership works miracles. I guess I'm not at the point of wanting to do anything about it yet, but I know where I'm sending it when I do.
Paul B, you may be right. I've been playing for around 25 years and I've never had a lesson in my life. I'm only good enough to keep myself amused and while I don't have any aspirations of ever performing in front of anyone, I think I have finally reached the point where I could benefit from a good instructor, both in technique and music theory.
Thanks again for all the input, guys.
-Rick |
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April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | Hey Joyful Noise...
Does "Joyful Noise" mean what I think it means? If it does, than a great resource would be the Paul Baloche website (www.baloche.com). His instruction videos literally transformed my playing. The videos are soon going to be available as DVDs, but until then, the DVD songbook, which is very instructional, is great!
Joe |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | jyam4 - now if you could just get Paul Baloche to switch from Olson to Ovation.... |
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March 2004
Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | Originally posted by alpep:
wow
how about a closeup of your fretting hand Well........., alright.
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March 2004
Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | Originally posted by jyam4:
Does "Joyful Noise" mean what I think it means? Actually, I stole it from the title of a Derek Trucks album. I'm really impressed with his skill and I just liked the phrase.
Thanks for the link.
-Rick |
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April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | Originally posted by Paul Blanchard:
jyam4 - now if you could just get Paul Baloche to switch from Olson to Ovation.... Paul...
Would you? There's not too many guitars (at least to me) that are worth $8000, but what I heard say about Olsons, they just might be. The one that Paul is currently playing is very interesting. It's a McPherson. I heard some great things about them, but I have never seen one up close. Ever heard of them?
Joe |
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June 2004
Posts: 365
Location: NC | Thats more than a death grip..........my teacher advises me to press the strings no harder than to make contact with the frets to make sound.
It looked like dents in your frets and the fret board looked like knuckle marks!
I would bet after two songs your wore out or at least your fingers are!
Treat it as a beautiful woman and caress the strings when you apply pressure.
I would hate to shake hands with you.....just kidding! |
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December 2002
Posts: 939
Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Your fretboard looks a lot like my Legend's....
I don't play every day, but it is my exclusive acoustic guitar when playing with the band. We had 4 hour rehearsal yesteday, but I do play bass and electric also....
I was concerned about it and the last time I had it at our local dealer/repair shop, they took a look at it and thought it was normal. No new frets needed until buzzing becomes a problem....
I've had mine almost 2 1/2 years.
(Time for a new companion six-string, when is the OFC model coming out???)
;) |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | jyam4, I've heard of and heard McPhersons. An amazing sounding guitar. You can see them and hear clips from a cd they put together of various artists (keaggy, meeks, dente, etc.) here .
If I could afford an Olson... or a Mcpherson or a Del Langejans... I'd have one, too! |
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November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I find the best footware is laced, has a supportive arch and heel cup and has ample width with a bit of room in the toe. |
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April 2002
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, Florida | Originally posted by Waskel:
If I could afford an Olson... or a Mcpherson or a Del Langejans... I'd have one, too! Yeah, me too! I have the Paul Baloche Songbook on DVD, and he demonstrates the songs using his Olson, Langejans and his 1965 C&W Gibson. He picks his guitars well. The video must have been made before he got his McPherson. That was a great McPherson link, thanks!
Joe |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Yer welcome. If you happen to order either of those cd's, you'll find that you listen to them as much as anything else. They're great examples of McPherson guitars as well as great songs played by very talented musicians. |
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Seeking advice on fret wear
