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Location: California | On a separate topic, and forgive me if this has been discussed before:
Do you think there has been a decline of quality in Ovations in the past few years? I am specifically talking about the US models.
Why I ask is that the sticker with the model number inside the bowl of my 2001 Legend is crooked. It annoys me everytime I look at it. I guess the person at the factory was having a bad day.
This made me start to scrutinize the rest of the guitar. I started to notice tiny things. Pencil marks on the back of the headstock that were apparently used as guides when they installed the tuning gears. I was able to erase them. The curve at the end of the fretboard seems to be off center. Still I've come to love it.
Anyway, this made me curious so on my next visit to my local guitar store I started to closely compare the fit and finish of the US Ovations to the Guilds, Gibsons, Taylors, Martins, etc. This is purely antedotal, of course, but these particular Ovations didn't compare very well. Also, the Ovation natural tops weren't as nice with uneven grain or bearclaws. I realize that a nice appearance doesn't necessarily mean the other tops would sound better.
I am an Ovation fan so please don't flame me. I just get the impression that the company isn't putting the same effort into their product as they once did. They certainly don't seem to be promoting Ovations except maybe to teenage rockers. When I was in high school and college(I'm now in my 40s) Ovations were ubiquitous. Now I am being to feel like I am a member of a cult. Something is wrong somewhere.
I am not in the music industry. How well do the Ovation US models sell compared to the other major brands?
Thoughts, comments? |
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| Ovation has the best customer service in the industry. If you do not like something they will fix it. |
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Location: Scotland | Maybe somebody was having a bad day, but from what I've seen (and bought) current production is far more consistent now than in the seventies, and remember we're talking mass production here.
Bearclaw spruce on a guitar which has a street price of the Legend? I don't think so. You should be aware of how tonewoods are graded & how wood grade affects price, and remember that you should only compare guitars in similar price ranges. The tops on US Ovations are comparable with, & in many cases (such as the big "G" and these days "T") better than the competition. Guild are in the wilderness and now that they're owned by Fender may never return. Martin have lost the plot & all but their premium instruments are a travesty. I haven't played a new Gibson in the last 25 years that I would buy & I love classic Gibson acoustics ( I own a '64 Gibson-built Epi Texan) Ovation are much maligned and suffer because of predjudice, but the quality of the current product is, IMHO, at least as good as anything in the price range. It's back to Bill's ice cream analogy.
Paul |
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Location: SoCal | Mr. T:
I would echo most of what you said except it's only the most current Gibsons that I would consider. I've never played anything from about 1996 back that I cared for. I would probably change my mind if I played your Epiphone Texan. |
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Location: Scotland | My all time "to-kill-for" guitar would be a 35'-ish Gibson Advanced Jumbo. I've played several current Montana reissues at UK dealers, all of which were very uninspiring. I also played an original 30's example in Mandolin Brothers along with a couple of brand new reissues, all of which were stunning, especially the new guitars, though not to me worth the 5-6K price. If we're talking consistency & quality control Gibson is one company who have a ton of work to do.
Paul
[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: NJ | In philly a local dealer Benny Cintioli was the #1 givsong dealer for many years but almost all of his guitars were seconds so I have seen TONS of ugly givsongs over the years.
If you are looking at the label then the guitar is in the wrong direction.
In 1969 I was in my first band one of the kids playing guitar had a Hagstrom with the logo UPSIDE down.
quality issues are there with everything. Some of the best looking instruments are coming out of Japan and Korea but they are not always the best sounding.
For the most part I feel that Ovation is doing better or at least as good as any other major manufacturer.
Take a close look at a 3K les paul and then talk to me about a 1200 legend. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | you guys know i'm a loyal ovation fan. well, last time i was in a guitar center i spent a couple of hours looking at a number of guitars, and i compared the guitars in various price ranges. compared with the ovations i own, all except for two are 20 years old or more. to me, there is less craftsmanship imparted by a luthiers hand in the guitars i looked at in general than in the good old days. there was perhaps more consistancy imparted by better production technique in the new guitars, but good fitup of parts is one thing i always used to feel was synonomous with ovation. i can pull out my 1982-8 and i still smile at how precisely everything fits.
i picked up an adamas, discounted from ~2600 to 1995 at guitar center and you could slip a business card in the gap between the heel of the neck and the body of the guitar. i demonstrated this to the salesman. he shook his head and all he could say was that maybe the manager would reduce the price. HE DIDN'T GET IT. the guitar sounded dead even compared with other makers guitars at 1/4 the price, but it had been there for awhile and allot of that was probably due to strings. anyone ready to plunk down 2 large wouldn't overlook this fitup problem. for a potential quality guitar buyer, this would not be a positive sales point. IMHO ovation shouldn't let guitars like this leave the factory. especially the high end stuff. unless someone had a hangup with buying something new they could do much better with price and quality buying used. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I'll add my 2 cents worth, although I don't have a lot of personal "apples vs apples" comparisons to go by. I know my Medallion, which was a 2nd, and was I think at the bottom of the price line in it's day... I feel is better "put together" then the Tangent and the Elite-T's I have seen recently. Don't get me wrong, overall instrument quality I'd have to say the Elite T is great, but frankly there just seems to have been more attention to detail on my silly'ol Medallion. Label straight, neck fits prefect to the top etc.. that kind of stuff.
I also have an Adamas and an Adamas II. Although both fantastic sounding, the Adamas has a sturdier feel, and although I can't spot any flaws in either guitar, it just "seems" the Adamas is better made. Maybe it's that little bit of "classy" of the wooden knobs. That subtle extra "it" that is so hard to define.
Maybe this is a better way to say it.... I LOVE the Ovations that are put out today. When I pick one up, I like how they feel, how they look and how they sound... However, when I pickup an older Ovation, I not only see and hear a wonderful instrument as above, but with something added, I usually also admire the fine craftsmanship. I guess the new ones are SO clean and perfect, that maybe a little character or some "it" is missing... |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i think modernization and improved production numbers drive any company big enough to have employees away from craftsmanship. maybe that is why the retro look is popular. it brings back memories of the days when more people made less stuff. the human eye and hand had much more contact with almost everything we consumed.
nowadays the comsumer has so many choices of products with very little difference and even less soul, that we have become less interested in the product and more interested in the price. hand made, or at least high quality small production products are still out there, but they are expensive. with the death of the dot com'ers even less demand for craftsmanship and more for low prices will imho dry up a few of the remaining sources for the "cream". |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I think you are discussing a super slow pendulum effect going back to the 20's and 30's when skilled labor was super cheap, and instruments had fantastic wood work, to the 40's, 50's and 60's high end quality guitars that were assembly line but had skilled workers in assembly, finish and trim, but tons of cheap junk in mail order etc.. The Japanese slowed the pendulum in the late 60's and early 70's with cheap skilled Japanese labor and some good low priced guitars. From the 70's, the management skills took over everywhere to reduce skilled labor involvement with the theory that you hire one skilled tech and he writes down how he does it so the cheap labor does the step 1, step 2, step 3 under his supervision (supervision denotes he is not part of management). Finally the cheap labor gets good enough that the skilled supervision is no longer needed, so management gives one of the laborers a whip and, voila, that cash flow needed to support the bloated management that had these brilliant thoughts is generated, and the pendulum reaches the end of it's swing and starts looking for what it is going to cut in half as it slowly, inexorably starts a new cycle. Fortunately, no one worth while is left to be hurt in the industry as it makes it's deadly back swinging incision, triggered by a customer noticing that the label was crooked.
Marketing will be first!
Bailey (simile stolen from E. A. Poe) :eek:
[ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ]
[ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: Bailey ] |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | I did the Martin Guitar factory tour a couple of years ago.(Nice tour)At the last station two men are behind a bar height counter making the "last" inspection before shipping... They would tune it up strum it (show off a little)and talk about what they look for prior to giving it the green light. I asked if out of the dozens of guitars a day that he checks does he ever get one that is "special" feel, sound, you know what I mean. He said yea every once in a while he will pick one up and it all but glows. I asked if it's set aside or given a higher grade of some sort, and he said no it's just shiped out as scheduled.
I think every guitar mfg. would have the same experiance. Not every guitar will "glow". |
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Location: Scotland | No matter how hard guitar manufacturers strive for consistency, when you are using a material as inconsistent, organic & unpredictable as wood, they will always be variation in sound & sometimes stability from guitar to guitar. Finding the "good" one can be part of the charm & the fun in buying an instrument. However consistency in manufacturing methods, fit & finish & quality control is another issue & it's here that some companies are wide of the mark.
Paul |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | that is what makes so much sense about ovation and in particular adamas. eliminate some of the unpredictable stuff and replace it with strong, stable, sound good, modern materials.
it's opening night at philo's-------gotta string a few ovations. got a feeling it's going to be foggy tomorrow morning. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Yes Russ
If the fogs there are anything like some we had in San Diego, an all wood guitar might end up looking like an ancient shipwreck if it isn't packed away safely in a case in a tight closet. Some of those fogs were like walking around on the ocean bottom. I've parked my car and got out to see where the curb was in my own neighborhood, and sat on the curb and can't even see the car as a lost Navy aircraft carrier floated by 30 feet off the ground and we were 15 miles from the coast. I'd tell you how they got it back to the Naval station when the fog cleared, but I would lose my security clearance. An Ovation is the only guitar to survive in that kind of fog, there is some risk that the flotation capability of the guitar and case might float you to the top of the fog with unpredictable results when the fog clears. I'm sure I don't need to tell you about that as you probably have experienced it a few times judging by your posts, I would suggest an anchor but I'm sure you figured that out (do your calculations before you leave the house).
Bailey (safety is paramount, even if it kills you) |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | ha ha ha bailey,
i see southern cal left an impression on you too.
actually there was no fog this morning of the coastal kind OR the self induced oat willie kind. another of mexico's unpredictable surprises occured yesterday that prevented philo's from opening. seems old senor machuca, who lived across the street from philo's club and who was the local cantina, whorehouse and liquor store owner (among other highly illegal activities) decided it was time to cash in the chips. now, being a catholic country steeped in the traditions of fear and guilt, there will be a novena or 9 day mourning period right in front of philo's. they set up a black tent and you go check out the body and eat tamales. really! out of respect, the family asked philo to not have music for a few days. so when in rome......... i think i would have at least played house of the rising sun, tequila sunrise, knockin' on heavens door and other appropriate tunes.
this guy was the local "godfather" who was immune to the law. things could get very interesting here in the next few weeks. the sopranos with salsa picante!! could be a few more black tents before it is all over. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Russ
Wayne, a new member, mentioned bullet proof as a feature of his Ovations, you might want to pick out the ones of yours that are similar for the next few days or weeks. Beyond that I expect things will get back to normal, music mescal and merriment can't be put off for long in Mexico.
Good Luck
Bailey :cool: |
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Location: Alabama | I don't know what "bearclaw" means in the context of natural guitar tops. Can someone explain? |
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Location: Scotland | Bearclaw figure, also known as "hazelficte" is a pattern in the grain which can be seen sometimes in spruce. It's a rippling of the longitudinal fibres of the wood and is called Bearclaw because it can look like clawmarks. Unlike the figure in "tiger-stripe" or curly maple, the effect is random and assymetrical. Bearclaw Spruce carries a premium price because it usually occurs in older trees with tight grain structures which will produce very stiff, yet lightweight tops. It's also very pretty.
Paul
[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Great explanation Paul. I usually say it looks like stretch marks and get funny looks from people.
We've seen all kinds of bearclaw. My 84 C-Series has pretty much matching inch long squiggles all over it. There have been some that look like birdseye and I've got a 87 C-Series that has 4 to 6 inch stripes through the grain but not very many of them. It makes nice guitars but it is much more random than maple patterns. |
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Location: Alabama | Thanks for a very lucid explanation. |
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Ovation quality/comparative standing in the industry?
