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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I have been thinking about this post for awhile. I presented this idea at NAMM, and maybe describing it here is self-defeating. But then again, many people may think like me (scarey, but possible).
When I bought my first Ovation, I aspired to someday own that $2500 Adamas. According to the pricelist, the "top of line" has always idled at $2500. I wonder why when the "new" models came out, why didn't the "old" model become a "Custom Shop" item for maybe $5K or $10K? just to have an expensive guitar in the catalog, even if no one buys it, or maybe they buy just one. The PRS Dragon at $25,000 is a perfect example. It's just a nice guitar with a custom finish, but instead of PRS being known as the company that makes $3000 dollar guitars, they are known as the company that makes $25,000 guitars (someone posted a similar thread about iron gates).
I'm sorry to say, there are people who feel more comfortable spending $5000 on a "traditional" guitar than $1500 on an Ovation. Tell me you never heard someone say something like "Hey check out my , it set me back xxK dollars."
Based on economy if in 1985 a guitar listed for around $2000 than by 2003 the similar model should be closer to $4000. And you should still be able to get the "discontinued" model for $8000, but your're gonna have to wait for it.
I think it's great that top of line Ovations are reasonably priced, outstanding guitars, but I already own Ovations. To someone who doesn't, already own an Ovation, it's just a cheap guitar that happens to sound good, and reenforces the stigma of Ovation being "cheap" guitars, when it used to be Ovation being fine quality guitars.
The import line of course factors in here also, adding to the stigma, the lack of a place to see the USA Models... it all adds to the same stigma.
Well that's my ramble. I'd love to see the slot-head in the Catalog for $15,000. I could never afford it, and they may never sell one, but it would be nice to have it on paper to dream about. |
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Location: SoCal | Miles:
That's a good idea. Ovation could put the original Adamas I in the catalog for $3500-$5000 and the slothead in for $10,000-$25,000. They'd be special order only and Ovation wouldn't have to tool up to make a lot. It would certainly up to image of Ovations from being in the $400-$1500 range, and would give people something to dream about. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | I am more than willing to put my Balladeer in the catalog for $25000.00 ;) I don't know what it says, other than you've over-priced your guitar. As I stated before, I've played 2,000.00 and higher Taylors at the local music shop. My first thought was they don't hold a candle to my Legend, and my very next thought was, Taylors are WAAAY over-priced, and like a Cadillac, you're paying for a name, moreso than the product.
I think it's great that a top of the line Ovation is "almost" affordable, and that the average Ovation IS attainable for most.
It's the sound, not the price that should sell people on an Ovation (of course, their great looks don't hurt either!). If people need prestige, let them have their Martin, or Taylor, or whatever the flavor becomes next year. As Al said, "Ovation is a survivor", and it survives by it's merit, not it's marketing (or perhaps even in spite of it).
I do agree however, more advertisement of the models presently being sold certainly wouldn't hurt the company, but as just a player/owner of an Ovation, I personally don't care how much others laugh, or call my guitars cheap! Let the blind lead the blind to the next holy grail of guitars, I know a good thing when I have it!
Laugh on you herded sheep, I'll walk to the beat of my own drum (or deep bowl in this case ;) )!
Peace,
Norse(Ovation has nothing to prove beyond the quality of their product, and their product speaks for itself IMHO)man1 |
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Location: The Shop | You want an expensive Ovation,than the Q is your answer.This guitar is completly composite.About the only thing that mother nature made is the bridge!The body,neck(which is one piece from the head stock to the back strap button)fingerboard,EVERYTHING is composite.The price you ask,well I dont know if I can tell you the exact price but it is quite a bit more than the previous list of 6,000.00 but les than 25,000.00
The reason it is not out,cant seem to make the brass happy with the results.go figure.I will probably get in trouble for saying this much,so lets leave it at that.It is one beauty of a guitar! |
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Location: NJ | "...That's a good idea. Ovation could put the original Adamas I in the catalog for $3500-$5000 and the slothead in for $10,000-$25,000..."
That's a good idea, Paul.
If anybody out there is willing to pay $15-20K for mine, . . . . we can talk ;) |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Norseman1 I think you may be missing the point slightly... There SHOULD be a guitar in the $1500 range... absolutlely, the models they have now are fine. But there should be, if for nothing other than marketing an "expensive" guitar. I totally agree that "It's the sound, not the price that should sell people on an Ovation" but to be realistic 80% or higher of the Ovations bought are bought specifically for the price point, and those are the imports.
There are unfortunatly too many people, including the professionals that say "I wouldn't be seen playing a cheap acoustic." or "How good can it be if it's USA Made, and only costs 1000 dollars?"
I do agree they shouldn't overprice, I didn't say anything about a Balladeer for 2500000... I said a "custom shop" original slot head, or adamas 1, both guitars that are no longer made, should be in the high-end category as Paul suggested. Something to aspire too, something to dream about that's all. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | cms-man I would think a guitar as progressive as the Q should sound stellar, and if it's going to lead the industry in a new direction (like many of the Ovation firsts that everyone ELSE took advantage of) then it should be like 9K or 10K range. They may not sell a ton of them, but just having it in the catalog will make a statement and increase the overall "worth" and perseption of the Ovation line. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | Miles, you point is well taken, and I was very much exaggerating the $25000.00 Balladeer. I understand the idea of making a guitar that is actually worth $25000.00 I just don't think I would want to cater to "...professionals that say "I wouldn't be seen playing a cheap acoustic." or "How good can it be if it's USA Made, and only costs 1000 dollars?"."
I'm saying, let the fancy boys have their fancy toys, Ovations are better off being left in the hands of the Jim Croce's of the world. Guys who play from the heart, that carry no pretense, nor clamor to please the masses, or worry about what others see them play...yet, with their simple, honest, down to earth music, they inspire.
Norse(give me Harry Chapin, not Johnny Tesh)man1 |
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Location: NJ | I agree with Miles that there should be a "Flagship" model or a "Crown Jewel" in the catalog for the most discerning (and obscenely well-to-do) of clientele. Plymouth probably doesn't sell a hell of a lot of "Prowlers", but they always seem to make it into the ads (and turn heads).
A couple weeks ago I walked the New York Boat Show. The show runs the gamut of aluminum fish boats to 90' cruisers with a James Bond-ian pop-up compartment in the stern to DRIVE your WaveRunner up and into. There was a booth there by an Italian company called (I believe) The Ferretti Group. They had a small assortment of nice medium sized boats. Now, all of these boats in the show you can board and snoop around on (providing you remove your shoes). The Ferretti Group had this on model that was a 40-45' "runabout". The entire top of the boat was a beautiful highly polished urethane-coated teak and the rest of the hull was this sexy, dark forest green fiberglass. Full instrumentation in the cockpit which was (as was the entire "lounging area" behind it) done in a light cream-colored LEATHER. The leather-covered "sundeck" at the stern cantilevered open to the dual ALL CHROME Yanmar engines below. The well-dressed, well coiffed, well manicured young Italian gentleman that was manning that particular area of the booth seemed to only know one English phrase: "This-a boat is-a shown-a by appointment only!"
After I dabbed the drool off the front of my shirt, I scoffed at his Euro-trash pretense and elite-ism. I'll never be able to afford that boat - but I'll never forget it - and I walked away with a certain amount of reverence and respect for The Ferretti Group. |
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Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | That's cool. To each his own. Peace Bro!
Norse(enjoying posting with you guys very much!)man1 |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Norse,
I do like the idea of the "understated" musician playing Ovations. However saying "the Jim Croce's of world" is the precise reason I think Ovation needs to do something with marketing their high end guitars. Most of the artists we think of have not only not been heard of, but in the case of "Jim" and my all time favorite "Harry", they've been dead 20 years (or maybe longer). I do agree with you, but lets get up to date and say they should be in the hands of the John Maher's of the world.
On another "perspecive" note. I know for many people $1500 seems like a lot of money for a guitar. But to many many more, it's less than average for a good high quality guitar. I looked up some average prices just on eBay and found Taylors to be in the 1K-3K range, Martins in the 1k-2K range, Ovations mostly in the less-than $800 dollar range. I'm sure someone can post price ranges of new guitars, but as was already stated. Ovation needs a "flagship" guitar, just to keep it in the same conversations. They need it just as much as they need the $500 Celeb guitars. |
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Location: NJ | Well ford probably sells 100 escorts to each T bird and chey 100 citations to each corvette. But the option to have a high quality car is there.
With guitars sure if you look at raw materials and wood what makes one model cost 5K and another 500 is one simple answer. Supply and demand. The public the consumer determines what something is worth. Why are Les pauls 2K and over when I bought one in 1971 for 319 tax case pick strap strings and cable included is because the consumer is willing to pay that.
I think some of you would be shocked if you knew what old Adamas guitars go for in Japan and what Ovations in general sell for in the world market. They are highly respected and sought after. It seems that only in the US are they not as popular or well respected.
Part of the reason why the Adamas 1 is not currently in production or not in production for the US market is because of cost. I have an issue with that. Make it available and charge what you need to get for it. Then high end shops will stock one (maybe) or can order it for the true believers. Those that can do with a little simpler model can order an Adamas 2. So your output is low each year on those models, who cares. What you are doing is filling a void in the high end market that currently is nonexistent.
Don't worry Norse there will be a ton of escorts, citations, mavericks, pintos, chevettes, etc for the working man, but there will always be aspirations for the corvette t bird rolls etc,
Sure there are many cabon graphite guitars on the market now but Ovation was the first and should put out a product that reflects that. I am sure that is why the Q id not yet there. I played it. And can tell you it is nice but I have not A/b ed it with other instruments. Cost of materials are only one part of the equation. R and D, labor and reputation are the others.
Datsuns came on the market selling cheap cars with good mileage now the lexus is priced along with other us luxury cars. I have seen this business model work over and over and over and over but what do I know I sell gear for a living. |
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| So long as the Steve Lukathers of the world continue playing Ovations, I think we're okay. |
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Location: SoCal | Lukather was at NAMM playing an Ovation. Wow. Now I understand why Paul Yandall says that Lukather is one of his favorite players. |
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Location: NJ | the funny thing is Matt Smith played to a huge audience then steve took the stage and played to only a few folks. He did a great set. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I have always looked at the Adamas 1 as the Ovation flagship. When I was 17, I got a Legend. It was a great guitar, but it had no electronics in it. I was starting to play at churches, and I needed to plug in. I set my heights high, and I was determined to get an Adamas. I sold my Legend, and a Gibson Firebird to get my Adamas. I was going to get an Adamas 2, but I lucked out and my Dad gave me the extra money I needed to get the Adamas 1. I just wish all Ovation fans had a chance to play an Adamas 1. They would see why it will always be my "Flagship"...Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | Paul, Al, when Luthaker played on Friday afternoon he was using a Takamine. |
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Location: SoCal | I saw that. But while we were talking with Rick Hall he switched to the 2003 Collectors. |
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Location: NJ | exactly started with a tak then the 2003 he ripped on both guitars |
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Location: Bloomfield Ct | I absolutely agree with the original premise of this post.
Ovation needs to look and feel like the American icon guitar company it is. Running a killer slot head Adamas up the flagpole at $10K would be a very cool thing to do. And ya know what? They would sell a few.
Yes.... Ford does sell perhaps 8000 Focus models for every Tbird, and so would Ovation sell many more Balladeers and Celebs. Does anybody think that the Viper did not give the Dodge brand a kick in the ass. You bet it did!!! And those design cues made it all the way down to the Neon.
When you look around at most successful brands of any product, you see companies that design and produce their product to an IDEAL not a price point. I don't care if its cars, yachts, motorcycles,shotguns,golfclubs, you name it. The trick is to make your product something people aspire to own. Then you will succeed. |
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Where have the expensive Ovations
