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Location: Fort Worth, TX | I've found in life that effort I put forth to accomplish something usually involves immersing myself in the activity in an intense yet haphazard manner. That's where I am with learning fingerstyle at the moment. I switch back and forth between books and dvd's on the subject - rarely staying with one from beginning to end. Since I have ADD, I get bored easily with one manner of the pursuit and have to change everything up to be able to continue. I have an example of this from recent activitiy I've been involved with. Over ten years ago, I spent 4 years as a pinstriper in what was then a major motor cycle manufacturer. It wasn't the "adornment" type of pinstriping, but mainly comprised outlining graphics the spray painters put on first. I always wanted to be able to do the VonDutch style striping, but all of my attempts at it were amateurish at best. A few weeks ago a friend bought a new 30 thousand dollar Gold Wing he asked me to pinstripe. I almost considered making an excuse as to why I couldn't do it - he wanted the fancy adornment that had eluded my grasp all my life. I tackled it anyway and, to my surprise, carried it off in record time - to the extent I made $100 an hour on the job - for over $500.00. I was astonished my striping had so abruptly turned a corner. It can be seen in the Untitled Album at www.facebook.com/davespinstriping - along with two trucks as well. The last cycle I striped before this one was awful and I wouldn't take pics of it - it wasn't worth it. Now, I'm waiting for the day I pick up my Balladeer and rip thru some amazing fingerstyle playing. I'm fully expecting it to happen - all the little pieces I've learned will suddenly fall into place and I will finally be happy with my playing. That's how I accomplish my goals and have no idea why it works that way - but I sure am looking forward to that day. |
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Posts: 133
Location: Ohio | It'll happen man. Keep at it. I couldn't finger style pick for the longest time and always wanted to. Then with a lot a practice over the coarse of a few weeks, it came to me and suddenly I could do it well. For a long while (a year or more) I rarely did anything else. I thought it would define me as a musician. I thought this is who I am now, a finger picker. Now I am back to the over driven rock stuff that led me to picking up a guitar in the 1st place all those years ago as a teenager.
I have been playing for about 24 years minus a few breaks when I was in the military, college etc but there is one thing that still eludes me (well many things actually, but one big one), rhythm. I can't seem to find it. I can get close sometimes but its far from perfect and needs a ton of work. It doesn't matter what I am playing or what style.
I know why. I play acoustic mostly, alone most of the time and rarely to any type of time keeper whether it be a backing track a metronome or a song I am trying to learn. I know how to fix it. but man it will take a ton of work.
Edited by aaronharmon 2012-04-29 1:15 PM
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Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I don't understand musicians who say the can't keep rhythm. I think maybe, at least in some cases, they are thinking they can't keep "time" which is much different than rhythm, although related in some sense I guess. There are plenty of musicians that can't keep time, or just choose to ignor it or work around it. Good drummers keep good rhythm, but if you want good timing (in the musical sense).... buy a drum machine.
When you listen to Jazz, you hear great rhythm.... but don't expect to sinc it up to a metronome for more than a measure... it's all about rhythm.
I have recorded several musicians who have amazing rhythm and horrible (perspective) timing. That's actually a good test to blow your theory out of the water about having poor timing. Just record yourself on a computer. Nothing fancy... doesn't even have to sound good... built in mic of a laptop will be fine.. Play a song. Play a song you like, that you think you sound good, but your "sure" has no rhythm. Now look at the waveform that's created and tell me you have no rhythm. I bet you'll be seeing many perfectly repeated patterns.
Another fun test... record a song you really like that you play all the time.
THen, without listening to the first... record it again the same way.
Now play them back together. You'll be surprised at how almost identical they are. Obviously the closer the better, but I'm guessing most of it will just sound like two people playing the same song, that's Rhythm. Occasionally getting out of sync... that's TIMING.
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | In the pit, I rely on the conductor or director. In the band, its the drummer who sets the rhythm. My son (a darn good drummer) keeps a metronome in his ear. |
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Location: Ohio | mileskb - 2012-04-29 4:23 PM
I don't understand musicians who say the can't keep rhythm. I think maybe, at least in some cases, they are thinking they can't keep "time" which is much different than rhythm, although related in some sense I guess. There are plenty of musicians that can't keep time, or just choose to ignor it or work around it. Good drummers keep good rhythm, but if you want good timing (in the musical sense).... buy a drum machine.
When you listen to Jazz, you hear great rhythm.... but don't expect to sinc it up to a metronome for more than a measure... it's all about rhythm.
I have recorded several musicians who have amazing rhythm and horrible (perspective) timing. That's actually a good test to blow your theory out of the water about having poor timing. Just record yourself on a computer. Nothing fancy... doesn't even have to sound good... built in mic of a laptop will be fine.. Play a song. Play a song you like, that you think you sound good, but your "sure" has no rhythm. Now look at the waveform that's created and tell me you have no rhythm. I bet you'll be seeing many perfectly repeated patterns.
Another fun test... record a song you really like that you play all the time.
THen, without listening to the first... record it again the same way.
Now play them back together. You'll be surprised at how almost identical they are. Obviously the closer the better, but I'm guessing most of it will just sound like two people playing the same song, that's Rhythm. Occasionally getting out of sync... that's TIMING.
Well played sir. |
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November 2008
Posts: 400
Location: Northwest Arkansas | A good tip to learn alternate thumbpicking is tune the guitar open and get a Fred Kelly Speedpick thumbpick, find your thickness and sit with an open chord and "fingerpick'. Long story short I could fingerpick before I knew chords. As to rhythm I agree with Mr. O. Timing is all about the metronome and the better the drummer, the better the pocket. When you play in the pocket it's like hitting a golf ball spot on the 1st time. It feels great. The best band I was ever in, the drummer used a metronome. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | I have another analogy for rhythm and timing but I think I'll leave that one alone, even if it does involve beautiful music.
Nice work, DaveKell. That's a real talent. Obviously you have hand/brain/eye coordination, so your fingerpicking will come along with practice and muscle memory. I'm certain your attempts at fingerpicking are far more pleasing than my attempts at pin striping would be. |
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September 2011
Posts: 59
| Dave:
I sympathize with your plight...
Why is it that Dust in the Wind flows so easily but Freight Train is a wall even though I have been working on them for the same length of time?
Carl |
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Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | Seen that trouble with pick up lines too, good rhythm, bad timing! |
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Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | My rhythm is pretty good, but my timing goes haywire. I bet 95% of the time I have sped up by the end of the song |
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November 2011
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | stonebobbo - 2012-04-30 10:56 AM
Nice work, DaveKell. That's a real talent. Obviously you have hand/brain/eye coordination, so your fingerpicking will come along with practice and muscle memory. I'm certain your attempts at fingerpicking are far more pleasing than my attempts at pin striping would be.
Thanks Bobbo... I guess you're the only one who looked at the page. The ability to do that kind of work literally hit me out of the blue. The bike was for a good friend who knew I used to pinstripe at a motorcycle factory, so he didn't think twice about asking me to do it - even tho it had been 10 years since I did that work everyday. All the little pieces I've put together over the years finally fell in place on that bike and the two trucks were done the following week. What I was trying to say with this post is I'm hoping all the little pieces of fingerstyle I'm getting together will fall into place soon the same way. Pinstriping involves a lot of muscle memory as well... and on a side note - I practice fingerstyle quite a lot with my eyes closed. Just a weird thing I do - if it works for Doc Watson, who knows? Anyway, thanks for the compliment. |
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Posts: 133
Location: Ohio | darkbarguitar - 2012-04-30 12:11 PM
My rhythm is pretty good, but my timing goes haywire. I bet 95% of the time I have sped up by the end of the song
This is my problem as well. Especially when I am trying to learn someone else's solo. Its difficult to master their timing. Hitting the right notes is one thing. Making it sound like Hendrix is altogether different. |
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October 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Ohio | I looked at the page as well. I just didn't comment on it. It's nice work, I was just more interested in discussing the music.
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Turning the Corner...
