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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1026
Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | Hey all, it's been a while.
Let me fill you all in on what has been happening with my 12 string adventures as of late.
The Fed Ex CC65 situation has been cleared. To make a long story short, Mistergolf007 (whom I bought the guitar from) was reimbursed the insured amount, which was the same amount I paid for the guitar. He then shipped the guitar to me, and refunded me 50% of what I payed for it. In the long run, we both came out O.K.. He got a handsome price for his guitar, and I got a guitar with a slightly beat up case for half of what I originally paid for it.
In the interim of the Fed Ex debacle, I came across the following 12 on ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2541491282&category=0&rd=1 Not knowing what would happen, but thinking the chances were good that the CC65 would fall through, and with the encouragement of my wife (God, I love that woman), I pursuied the CC255.
It sure Looked good, so I contacted the buyer, and agreed upon a price. Since he lived about 125 miles from me, I decided to pick up the guitar myself to avoid any further shipping problems. I played the guitar breifly, and noted the action was high, but figured I could have that set.
Six days later I brought the guitar to my repairman (who did a great job fixing my Legend)just to have it set up, and new strings attached. As I proudly showed him the guitar, he apologetically gave me some bad news, as follows;
The neck has a twist, and a slight hump near the first three frets, and some pulling/lifting near the heel, which indicated to him that the truss rod had been overtightened. Upon opening the back of the guitar, he found that indeed the truss rod had been tightened as far as possible, and that there was a crack in the brace that holds the truss rod in place (which he felt was not a major issue. Further, he noted that the bridge was beginning to lift, and if you looked closely, you could see the finish had seperated from the soundboard under the bridge. :eek:
To make a long story a bit longer, nothing short of a neck reset will cure the action, and a bridge reset was recommended (although with the two bolts that hold the bridge down, I doubt it will actually come off). I can't believe I didn't see any of this right off, or didn't examine the guitar more closely.
I emailed the fellow I bought the guitar from and explained what I had found... to put it simply, he responded "sorry...but tough luck!".
I noticed Nils a while back posted about his CS255 needing a neck reset as well. Is this a structrual problem in the design do you think? This guitar looks like it has never been played, yet has all these problems. What to do?!
The CS 255 Shallow bowl actually has more bass to it than the CC65 deep bowl unplugged (which still isn't saying much), but plugged in, the CS255 is AWESOME!!!
Well, I hadn't posted for a while, and I made up for it in one foul swoop here! Thanks for those who have actually read this War and Peace type post all the way through.
In conclusion, my 12 string SEARCH is over for now, but my 12 string follies continue.
I know, I could have EASILY bought any of the vintage 12's I was previously looking at for what I paid for these two 12's. Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it.
Peace,
Norse(not exactly what I planned)man1 |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Awe, man, that just sucks. Rough road, bro.
I think you could easily make that guy take the guitar back if he didn't list these problems. If you had the guitar shipped, there was no way for you to know before hand.
Well, you have enough guitars to mess around with now. Perhaps buying new might be the next replacement for these 12's (when the time comes), or buy from Al, a guy you know you can trust.
Be well,
Johnny |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | Norseman,
Mine was a CC255, same as yours (not a CS). It didn't have any bridge issues or anything coming loose, it just had the neck set at a slight angle to the body making it impossible to get the strings low enough to be reasonably easy to play up past the 5th fret. The nut was also not cut deeply enough where the strings went over it & had sharp corners. The luthier that worked it over fixed that part of the problem making it *reasonable* to play as long as I stayed above the 5th fret. Not *comfortable*, but reasonable.
On the other hand the sound was very good, especially plugged in (of course).
My new Elite sounds even better as well as looking better & is easy to play clear down to the cutout.
The guy that bought my CC255 apparently doesn't go past the 5th fret anyway, so he's happy as a clam & I'm even happier :)
Nils |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Hi,
As far as getting the seller of the CC255 to do anything, you are not in a good position....since he ended the auction and sold it to you as a private indivdual, you would have no way to get eBay involved. I don't know what would apply in your state, though, for a private sale. You would probably have to prove that he knew there was something wrong before selling it, and that would be tough bordering on impossible.
I hope everything comes out OK, and you have TWO nice 12-strings when all is done. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Two points, none of which are particularly helpful right now. Due to their construction methods & materials USA Ovations are generally much easier to put right than the imports in the event of problems like you describe. That's why they have a lifetime warranty to the original owner and why they cost more. Most moderately-priced imported guitars, regardless of brand have fairly shallow neck angles, which means their usable life is limited. Secondly, if you're not absolutely sure when buying a used guitar from a private seller or an auction, steer clear |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | To add to what PT stated, this guitar also seems abused, and even the best guitar can get ruined by tightneing the neck so tight. Again I find following the eBay rules the best course as at least there is some recourse for a bad deal, or at least some motivation for a reasonable seller to make it good. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1026
Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | Well, live and learn I guess. I won't push the issue with the seller, I asked politely for help, he declined to do so. I will look into getting the neck reset. My understanding is that it will cost between 150.00 and 200.00. I bought the guitar very reasonably ($350.00), so I do have some room to work with it. Nils, this guitar also is high at the nut, apparently with the grooves not cut deep enough. Getting that corrected might give me some mid board relief, but not much help past the seventh fret or so I suspect.
Whatever the case, it's mine, and I'll make the best of it. I will be using it to play "He's Alive" (by Don Francisco)in a church special this Sunday. I trust God's hand is upon every aspect of my music...including my CS255. Somehow things will work together for good, in spite of my best efforts to sabotage them. After Sunday, I will see about repairs.
Peace,
Norse(I'm trusting a will look back at this situation in a year or two, and be in awe of what the Lord has done through it)man1 |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | The nut on mine had really sharp corners too, as well as being way too high. The guy that worked on it made it much better by cutting the grooves to the proper depth & cutting down & smoothing the excess material. It was still not *easy* to play, but it was tolerable up to the 5th fret or so.
Good luck :)
Nils |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Norsey and Nils
Good stories each and I would love to give you a great solution. One thing interested me, My grandson came home on leave from Kuwait and bought a very nice Korean made Sigma, my daughter came to visit with a Yamaha acoustic that sounded very nice. Both of these guitars had the nut set so high that they were hard to play. WHY?
Bailey |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 45
Location: Oakton, VA | Norseman,
Our church choir does "He's Alive" quite simply, a colorful resonant baritone voice against a 12 string tuned a whole step low. Sounds great.
Many 12 string players seem to tune down the whole step. I'd always assumed this was solely to lessen the stress on the top and neck. Our baritone claims otherwise. He feels the lower tones are the essence of the 12 string sound.
Any preferences?
Tom |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Tom, years ago received wisdom was that 12-strings would be damaged by regular gauge strings at concert pitch and most manufacturers recommended tuning down a whole step, though I guess this may have been to cut down on warranty repair work rather than anything else. Then a few companies, notably Ovation & Guild, began making 12-strings designed for concert pitch, and most others have followed.
As for the sound of a down-tuned 12-string I aggree with your friend. I don't play 12-string guitar very often, but when I do I prefer them with very heavy strings tuned down to C, B, or if the gauge is heavy enough, A. You can easliy go up a few thousanths on each string for every step down-tuned and maintain a fairly constant string tension. The only problem is that the bridge design on Ovations limits the maximum string gauge on the lower strings. |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1026
Location: Back in the Valley of the Sun Mesa Az. | I like to keep mine a half step down, at about D#. I figure, hey if I can't sing on key, I'll just tune my guitar off key, and nobody will notice ;)
Norse(always been a little "off key")man1 |
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Hello!
