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Joined:
March 2024
Posts: 9
Location: Germany | Hi forum,
in the past year I became proud owner of a 2078 LTX made in USA and also a (VERY good priced) Adamas 2087 GT.
The difference in sound is clearly remarkable even though I am not shure if I would go for the Adamas if I had to pay the full price.
Now to my "problem" (I am ashamed to have such a "problem"):
I would like to complete my Ovation family with a 12 string.
Option 1 (I have one offered to me):
2058 TX
+ I REALLY like the design of the TX models and fits to my 2078
+ Deep Bowl (!!!)
- Made in Korea (not China)
- Will this sound like my 2078 USA-made or is there a strong quality drop in sound USA vs. Korea?
Option 2 (there is also one offered to me):
Adamas 1598 ME
+ Well, it's an Adamas so it should sound better, right?!?
- Price
- Mid-Bowl
Does anybody have comments or even suggestions?
Has anyone played both models and can compare the sounds?
I am a bit scared that the Adamas lacks sound because of being only Mid-Bowl and is not really worth the additional money.
Thanks a lot in advance!!
P.S. What do I have to do to become a "normal" forum user and post in other forums than the Welcome Center? |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7228
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Moved this here to General forum for better coverage. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4060
Location: Utah | As you know, there is a difference in tone between the deep contour bowl and the mid bowl. To some extent you can use a heavier string on the mid bowl to coax more low end out of it. Also, the round bowls just feel different as they tend to roll a bit skyward when playing standing up. Not hugging with the right elbow will reduce that upward roll a lot but will not eliminate it.
The TX is a slightly downgraded production from the LX. Both of my daughters have USA made T guitars, one a mid bowl and the other a deep contour. The T has a slightly different voice than the LX but it is a good sound, just slightly different.
Are you playing plugged in a lot? Playing standing vs sitting? Are you looking for a full deep sound out of the 12 string or will you be accompanied by a band?
I have an all wood dred 12 string which sounds full and bold with 12's on it, but definitely is thinner sounding with 11's. That's tuned to to concert pitch. Based on that experience, I think the mid bowl Adamas will be pretty chimey sounding.
There's a lot of personal preference in what you like in an instrument. I happen to prefer the deep bowls, either round or contour, for the deeper fuller sound. Are you able to play these before purchasing? How important is the pricing aside from being a fair price for the model (can you afford to pay more for a guitar you like better, or are you on a strict budget)?
The 2758AX would be an alternative option. RedBlanketGuitars has one in stock and he's a reputable dealer. He also has some exclusive custom shop Adamas 12 strings in stock, the 2088GT and the 1688GT. If I could justify the need I would be buying one of the Adamas, but the 2758AX will be a very excellent guitar for the money.
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Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1824
Location: When?? | Hi Hans. Welcome to the OFC. First, I am not much of a 12-string owner/player, but I will chime on the general guitar topic.
>>>Will this sound like my 2078 USA-made or is there a strong quality drop in sound USA vs. Korea?<<<
My personal findings on that seem to largely land on the timeframe it was built, and have found that there are peaks and valleys to that scope. For example, I have a 1992 Korea nylon classical (CC-13) that sounds very nice next to its American contemporary-- but the same (or similar) Asian product from 10-15 years later seems to have a substantial drop in both build quality and tone. However, when moving closer to current years, those qualities have substantially returned across all types of Asian/Celebrity models. But that's just my own experience range. Hopefully others will add theirs.
In terms of mid bowl tone, I go with what FlySig says on notching up to a heavier string, especially on the low tone strings if you want your mid depth bowl to lean closer to a deep bowl sound-- but I will also add that I have found using round core strings to help with that aspect as well. In one particular instance (2018 1627-GCRI) it was like a whole different mid-depth/Artist-depth guitar in respect to deep tone response with round core over hex core. Amazing how such a small detail could make such a drastic change, but it did.
Now, when OFC member 2WheelDrummer gets around to posting on this thread, you will surely get better answers on the 12-string topic than I could ever offer. Hopefully he will reply.
Edited by Love O Fair 2025-04-12 7:17 PM
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Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1046
Location: Yokohama, Japan | Hi Hans,
Welcome to the OFC. I've not played either of the guitars you've listed so you might want to take my post with a grain of salt. Having said that, I've played and owned a number of Os and As and might be able to add some insight...
Comparing US made with overseas made Os is a bit challenging because the overseas made Os are quite inconsistent in quality as mentioned by Love O Fair. The difference is not just in construction quality, but also in the type of adhesives that are used depending on construction period and country of manufacture. Some sound good. Some sound horrible. Some are playable while others are impossible to play even after an ideal setup. In my overall experience whether new or used, oversea Os are a bit harder to play and considerably less reliable. The reliability gap has lessened over the years; but as of this writing, I would still pick a US O over an overseas O any day.
If I'm not mistaken, the 2058 TX that you're considering is a glued-on neck while the US 2078 T that you own is probably a bolt-on construction. I've seen and worked on Celebrity's (6 and 12 strings alike) with failed neck joints. They are a nightmare to fix. The one's I've worked on have been converted to a bolt-on construction. So a 12 string with a glued on neck from an overseas facility will be a deal breaker for me.
I'm not sure what kind of neck joint the 1598 ME has (I think it's a bolt-on), but if it's a USA 1598 ME whether it's glued on or bolted-on, it will have been assembled with consistency and reliability. And as FlySig suggests, using a heavier gauge string can deepen the tone of the mid-depth configuration. My 1680 Adamas and my 1678 50th Anniversary are essentially configured the same with the former having a deep bowl and the later having a mid-depth bowl. I love them both, but they have completely different voices, and I can attest that "voice depth" differences caused by bowl depth can be compensated for with different string types and gauges. It would be easy to assume that the Adamas sounds better, but that's not necessarily the case. As a matter of fact, the 50th has more complex harmonic overtones than the 1680. However, when it comes to dynamic consistency and voice clarity, the Adamas wins hands down.
Which ever you choose, keep in mind that a 12-stringer will need to endure a huge amount of string tension; so for me, neck joint construction would be a big part of my final decision. Hope this helps and happy hunting!
Edited by arumako 2025-04-12 10:57 PM
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Joined:
March 2024
Posts: 9
Location: Germany | Oh wow, thanks for all your information.
It just happened so that due to the lack of advice here (my post sat in the welcome section quite a while), I did not dare to buy any of the above mentioned.
At the moment I am getting offered a totally different kind of animal, which might be the best choice: a 1688 from 1983.
Except that I am not shure if it is overpriced or not (see my other post http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=52...)
By far my dream guitar would be a 2088 GT offered by Red Carpet (as mentioned by FlySig). But including shipping an taxes that would be more than 7000€ for me, which is far far out of reach for me.
Still your input is very valuable for me.
I conclude (so far) that it is really an option to buy mid-bowl together with more heavy strings.
Buying a 2058TX is a gamble since the quality of asian made Os varies a lot.
Checking the neck joint (as mention by arumako) is unfortunately not possible for me (since all of my choices would be remote purchases, I live a bit off grid). Still very interesting that this has great impact and seems to vary a lot. Honestly, I thought all Os have a bolt on neck, so I learned something, thanks :-)
Regarding quality I had a very interesting experience, if I may write this a bit off topic. I bought an Adamas 2087 GT (for far far less than the list price). It had some issues which I did not expect from an Adamas:
* Two tuners had loose nuts. No problem, I just tightened them, but....
* The G-string was difficult to tune and made noises while tuning (the famous pling, pling when tightening). No problem, I took a nut file and corrected the size of the slot which was way too tight, but....
* The pre-amp is stuck and it was difficult to remove it. Almost no problem, I loosened the attachment screws...but still the pre-amp does not come out easily.
I never heard of problems like this. Bad luck?
What is exceptional with the Adamas is indeed the sound. Sounds like my 2078LXT LTD USA but with a damper-cloth taken off the strings (slightly exagerated but still...).
So now for my 12 String side I have the choice
* Adamas 1598 --> mid-bowl, and maybe the tendency of belley behind the bridge
* 2058TX --> might have bad build quality, glue on neck and more but still a good sound (if lucky)
* Adamas 1688 --> might be too expensive
Great to have this forum to clear up things a bit, thanks!! |
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Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1046
Location: Yokohama, Japan | Hey Hans, a 1688 for 3500 euros doesn’t sound too bad to me. But then a 1688 in good condition will cost two to three times as much in Japan where I live! Would be great if one of the OFC 12-string experts would chime in; but from what I know, a 1983 model 1688 will have a “K-bar” bolt on style neck - probably the most stable, durable, and easy to maintenance neck that Ovation has ever designed (IMHO). Of the three 12-strings you’re being offered, I would think the 1688 would be the one to own. They are the crème de la crème of Ovation guitars. Hopefully the seller can send you plenty of photos of the instrument before you buy it. Again, best of luck to ya! |
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Joined:
March 2024
Posts: 9
Location: Germany | Tuesday of the week after next week a friend of mine will go to the seller and check out the 1688 (for me it is too far away).
arumako, if you say that 3500€ might be an ok price and the guitar is as described by the seller...I am a little excited :-) |
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Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1824
Location: When?? | Hans..
Your marker does not say exactly where you are located, but you did mention something in a Welcome Center post about a guitar in Germany.. so in case you are not current on recent posts, just last week OFC member Dirty Harry listed a slew of Ovations/Adamas for sale in Germany that belonged to our beloved club friend, Bernie, who passed away last year. So if per chance you did not happen to see that post, here is a link to the thread for it, and the list is in the top post on the thread--
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=52...
Edited by Love O Fair 2025-04-13 2:45 PM
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4060
Location: Utah | Pricing depends on location, but if the 1688 is in good condition I think 3500 is a very good price! In the USA the used prices get pretty close to new prices, at least on the internet sites.
As I always say, the price of Ovation and Adamas guitars is less than other famous brands or premium brands for similar quality. If you like the 1688 and the price is within the bounds of typical pricing for that model, then buy it and don't look back!
You can check Guitarcenter and Reverb for pricing comparisons. GuitarCenter is probably a bit more realistic because they want to sell, whereas on Reverb you may find individual sellers who put very high prices hoping to find a sucker. You can search for completed sales on Reverb to get a better idea. |
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October 2012
Posts: 1046
Location: Yokohama, Japan | hans - 2025-04-13 2:53 AM
arumako, if you say that 3500€ might be an ok price and the guitar is as described by the seller...I am a little excited :-)
Well Hans, FlySig says 3500 euros is a "very good price" and he knows what he's talking about so you might be getting a little more than excited at this point. Since your friend is going to get a first hand look at the 1688, may I suggest two things in addition to any usual pre-purchase examination your friend might go through. One is to check to verify the neck is a bolt-on neck. You should be able to see the bolts from the epi holes. Second, if at all possible, have your friend take a quarter inch allen (hex) socket-wrench and have him make sure the truss-rod adjustment actually turns (like loosen half a turn; then tighten back a half turn. If the seller is legit, I don't think he/she'd mind. You don't want to end up with a 12 string with a non-working truss rod. It's a nightmare repair that will cost a small fortune to fix. Hopefully, you'll have a way to verify that the pre-amp works too. Sheesh, now I'm starting to get excited!
If the 1688 is added to your collection, please share pics with us! Good luck! |
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Ovation Pro Series Elite 2058TX vs. Adamas 1598
