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Location: Glendora, CA | Yes a strange request I know but... An artist that I work with is looking for a new canvas to place her Hawaiian influenced artwork onto and I suggested that she put it on a Ovation USA Elite 1778T ! Because it will be getting a custom one of a kind paint job we might as well not destroy an otherwise mint guitar…however if we can find one that has had finish issues, or even a stabilized crack, we would be “rehabbing” what otherwise would be an imperfection, IMHO. Would like a good player in working condition… just cosmetically challenged. And belive me I know I might be a while looking to find the perfect one in her price range of $350 ish…but thought I would put it out there.
Keep yer eyes out!
T. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Just a thought...
HERE are a few 1778TX-4CS (yeah, crappy Korean) models for sale on eBay for cheap.
These have a cedar top that is smooth, and they may sound Okay.
You would probably have to sand-off the finish cuz it might be slick...
So she might want to roughen-up the top so that the paint will stick.
But they are relatively cheap.
Is this going to be a working instrument or a wall-hanger?
Just thinking out loud.
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Well, there's always this one.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/msd/5237094799.html
It's up in your neck of the woods.
Re-gluing a bridge is pretty easy affair. The alignment pins are what makes the job straightforward.
Plus, it's a US Elite T. |
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Location: Glendora, CA | Oh wow Dan - thanks so much!! How did I miss that in my craigslist search!!
I am going to try to go pick it up Mon or Tue. It definitely should be a USA T since it will be a player not just art. She will be airbrushing it so it shouldn't add much lacquer thickness to the finish in the end and therefor not effect sound.
That's interesting that bridge looks like a slimline but I thought the Elite T had that bridge with the fatter saddle like my 1718. Did they make both or have I just hallucinated the fatter one...? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Tennessee - 2015-10-03 1:43 PM
That's interesting that bridge looks like a slimline but I thought the Elite T had that bridge with the fatter saddle like my 1718. Did they make both or have I just hallucinated the fatter one...?
My Lusty Red T has a Thinline saddle...
That goes with the OP30 preamp.
I think that the Elite T's originally had the Thinline...
Then when they introduced the OP-Pro everything went to the Original Patented (wide) Pickup.
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | You're welcome.
If you decide to buy it, I recommend using Hysol 9462 to re-glue the bridge. You can order it from McMaster-Carr. At $16.60 a tube, plus $22.60 for the dispenser gun, it's a little pricey, but your bridge will stay in place and the Hysol won't inhibit the vibrations from the bridge to the top. You won't need the mixer nozzles because you can just squeeze some glue onto a piece of clean cardboard and mix it with a pop-cycle stick. I wouldn't use a hardware store grade epoxy. They work okay, but they're a little on the rubbery side once cured. It's too bad you and I don't live closer together. I've got the glue you need and would be willing to do it for free. The problem is that the glue takes a minimum of 24 hours to cure and you shouldn't disturb the glue joint during that period.
Edited by DanSavage 2015-10-03 4:37 PM
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Location: Glendora, CA | Dan, Dude I seriously owe you one! I called the PS to make sure it was still there and I could hear the owner in the background talking franticly to the guy taking the call and I got the sense I could make a deal if I went down since it has been up 9 days and they had dropped the price last week from $550 already. The guitar gods were smiling on me cause there was actually no traffic to get into the heart of Hollywood where the Pawn Shop is. Long story short there is no way I am allowing this baby to get a new paint job, I mean it is near unplayed. The case is even in almost new condition. I do feel for whoever pawned this guitar because it still has the owners manual, registration card unfilled out, service centers brochure,case key, trussrod wrench in plastic ovation brand baggie, and the D'Addarii Strings hang tag!!! Still has its shims, tiny amount of paint loss at the bridge connection point. The only solace is since the bridge lifted while it was pawned the previous owner likely got what I paid on it as I walked out the door with it for $280. I mean this guitar is so understatedly sexy its like a secret agent or something! Gonna have to keep looking for the art project cause this Bad Black just joined my stable. Ordering the glue Dan thank you for the advice. Do I need to rubberband or strap it or anything - or just leave it alone after prep/glue for 24 hours? Best, TR
Edited by Tennessee 2015-10-03 5:54 PM
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Location: Glendora, CA | Ahhh Old Man Arthur - that makes sense with the OP30...once again than you for the great info!
I cant wait to hear how this baby sounds when all back together!! |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Kewl! I'm glad it worked out for you.
You will just need to weight the bridge down with something weighing about 5 lbs. or so. The glue is pretty slippery, so it will have no problems squeezing out of the joint. Clean the underside of the bridge and the top with naptha and let it dry. (lighter fluid) Then, smear glue on the underside of the bridge and the top, then push the bridge into place and put the weight into place..
Once weighted, use some denatured alcohol on a paper towel to wipe off the excess squeeze-out, then let it dry. Ideally, you'll want to let the glue cure for 72 hours as that's how long it takes to reach full strength. You can take the weight off after 24 hours, but wait the full 72 hours before stringing it up.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the coloration. I've got a 2078TX-5 Elite T that I call Darth Ovation. LOL!
Edited by DanSavage 2015-10-03 6:24 PM
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Location: Glendora, CA | Ah perfect!!! thank you for the detailed instructions! McMasterCArr is so amazing at work I can order from them in the morning and the item arrives by 5pm - no kidding! I also have a couple of small 2.5 lb weights I think will work perfectly! naptha,popsicle stick, et all, I use regularly at work so hopefully Monday eve after hours I will be rehabbing this baby.
I will make sure to be patient...
Thanks again Dan so much for all your help and guidance! Not the project I thought it was going to be...its even more exciting.
Darth Ovation = shear brilliance |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | You're very welcome. I'm happy to help.
Yeah, MMC is pretty awesome with how fast they ship.
Needless you say, you'll want to do a dry run to make sure the bridge fits back into place before applying the glue. I figured you were probably already going to to this, but I thought it was worth mentioning at this point.
Good luck! I'm looking forward to hearing how it turns out and how it sounds. |
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Location: Glendora, CA | BTW do you think I need to rough up the surfaces at all to help with mechanical bond - or is there a greater chance of effecting the fit, which at this point goes back together perfectly. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | The good thing about Hysol is that it is very good at gap-filling without compromising the strength of the glue joint. Because it's a slow-drying epoxy, it will soak into the wood and reinforce the surrounding wood.
The main determining factor is, if the top wood split, then you won't need to do anything but apply new glue and clamp. If the original glue itself failed, then you'll need to scrape the old glue off and prep it for re-gluing, including roughing up the underside of the bridge and top wood.
If you want, post a pic of the underside of the bridge and one of the top where the bridge was attached.
Edited by DanSavage 2015-10-04 8:24 PM
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Location: Glendora, CA | Ok got the glue and have removed the saddle and pick up. Looks like the glue failed? I was thinking I should 80 grit sand the bridge back side being carefull of the fit pins, then clean all with Naptha...ect. The bridge fits back nicely in place. |
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Location: Canberra, Australia | arthurseery - 2015-10-04 5:51 AM
Just a thought...
HERE are a few 1778TX-4CS (yeah, crappy Korean ) models for sale on eBay for cheap.
These have a cedar top that is smooth, and they may sound Okay.
You would probably have to sand-off the finish cuz it might be slick...
So she might want to roughen-up the top so that the paint will stick.
I have a 1778TX-4CS. It's a lovely guitar to play. I have mine tuned to Open G and play Hawaiian Slack Key on it. The cedar top seems to suit the relaxed slack key style, IMHO.
It has a matt satin finish on the top, rather than the glossy finish that was on the cedar topped Celebrity CC-29S4s. It's also got an amazingly smooth neck. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Glue normally doesn't fail where it splits down the middle like that leaving half on one piece and half on the other. Normally, when a glue joint fails it'll leave whole sections on one side an whole sections on the other with a jagged seam line between the two. It almost looks to me like the bridge was glued to a clear coat under the black finish and that the glue failed to hold onto this clear coat. I can still see the coating on the top, except for the part that stayed attached to the bridge.
Ovation bridges normally have a 1/32" or 1/64" recess routed into the underside of the bridge to give the glue more bite into the bridge. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like the glue is still filling this recess except around perimeter of the bridge. If the ebony bridge pulled away from the glue joint, then this would leave a recess in the bridge and a raised section on the top.
If the top is smooth with no raised section and the underside of the bridge is smooth with no recess, then I'd say the bridge was glued to a clear coat.
In any event, I would most definitely sand the underside of the bridge to remove as much of whatever glue is left as well as sanding the top to get down to bare wood. I would use a narrow chisel to scrape the the top. It'll be neater than trying to sand as you'll have more control over how close you get to the edge. I would also mask the top area around the bridge location.
If you've ever sharpened a chisel, you'll know that it leaves a burr on the edge along the flat side. For scraping, you'll want to leave this burr. Here's an article on Stewmac that explains how to sharpen a scraper. For this job, I wouldn't worry about drawing out the burr or turning the hook. Just sharpening the chisel will give you enough of a burr to scrape off whatever is on the top.
See: How to sharpen a scraper.
Tennessee - 2015-10-05 7:17 PM Ok got the glue and have removed the saddle and pick up. Looks like the glue failed? I was thinking I should 80 grit sand the bridge back side being carefull of the fit pins, then clean all with Naptha...ect. The bridge fits back nicely in place. |
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Location: Glendora, CA | Dan you are a fantastic teacher!
Could one of the moderators move this whole post to the Luthier section!! It would be a great primer for bridge regluing!
I will follow your instructions and take photos along the way.
BTW what do you think the pencil 4-13 means? the month and day? seems unlikely. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Thanks for the kind words. The pencil marks could mean anything from a date to a lot number or could mean nothing at all.
For example, I did a neck reset on a friend's 1982 CE. He previously had the guitar re-bodied by another luthier. When I took the neck off I found the following markings under the polyester finish: 
The markings are: 1867-5
200241 Seems straightforward. If we go to the Ovation/Adamas Decoder on ovationtribute.com, we can see: 1867 - Legend. This is confirmed because it's got an A-brace body. -5 means black, which it is. But, the 1867 was only produced from 1990-2001 and only in a deep-bowl. The above body is a shallow-bowl. There was an 1867-4HFX that was produced in a shallow bowl, but that was natural (-4) and had the HET/FX preamp, which this guitar does not have. The 1861 was the Balladeer, which was produced in a shallow bowl, but didn't have the A-braces. The number, 200241 could be a serial number, but if it is, then the body would date to 1979. The number could be a date, but if it is, it would be 04-01-2002, or April Fool's Day. In the end, I gave up trying to decode these numbers because nothing added up.
Edited by DanSavage 2015-10-06 3:55 PM
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Location: moline,illinois | DanSavage - 2015-10-06 3:54 PM
Thanks for the kind words. The pencil marks could mean anything from a date to a lot number or could mean nothing at all.
For example, I did a neck reset on a friend's 1982 CE. He previously had the guitar re-bodied by another luthier. When I took the neck off I found the following markings under the polyester finish:
The markings are: 1867-5
200241 Seems straightforward. If we go to the Ovation/Adamas Decoder on ovationtribute.com, we can see: 1867 - Legend. This is confirmed because it's got an A-brace body. -5 means black, which it is. But, the 1867 was only produced from 1990-2001 and only in a deep-bowl. The above body is a shallow-bowl. There was an 1867-4HFX that was produced in a shallow bowl, but that was natural (-4) and had the HET/FX preamp, which this guitar does not have. The 1861 was the Balladeer, which was produced in a shallow bowl, but didn't have the A-braces. The number, 200241 could be a serial number, but if it is, then the body would date to 1979. The number could be a date, but if it is, it would be 04-01-2002, or April Fool's Day. In the end, I gave up trying to decode these numbers because nothing added up.
!867's are shallow bowls,some body must have goofed when writing the decoder list for the legend.Pretty much all ovations that start 18 are shallow bowls,i.e. 1869 custom legend is a shallow bowl,deep bowls generally start with a 17 or 16,so a deep bowl legend would be a 1767.when you get to the adamas lines its not as clear cut. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | 2wheeldrummer - 2015-10-06 3:51 PM
!867's are shallow bowls,some body must have goofed when writing the decoder list for the legend.Pretty much all ovations that start 18 are shallow bowls,i.e. 1869 custom legend is a shallow bowl,deep bowls generally start with a 17 or 16,so a deep bowl legend would be a 1767.when you get to the adamas lines its not as clear cut.
Thanks for the clarification. What you write makes perfect sense. |
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Location: Glendora, CA | Hey Dan I reposted your instructions and photos of my progress in the Luthier Forum !! http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=45528&posts=2&start=1
Edited by Tennessee 2015-10-07 7:01 PM
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WTB: Elite 1778T with imperfect finish
