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September 2004
Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | if NJ adopts the whole "NoSmoking in Bars" edict
We have this in Vermont and so far all the bars have stayed in tact. What seems to be a problem up here is the old style coffee house where a solo artist or a Two Man group can perform and also host an open mic for people like ME :D . It realy is all about me when you come right down to it. Anyway it is sad to see a good place shut down.
Paul |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12754
Location: Boise, Idaho | Cliff,
Some of us lawyers get to defend people like you and the bars you try to hang out in. Only in America can you sue somebody whose only "wrong" is that he carried insurance. I constantly have to defend those people and plaintiffs say "I'm not really suing you, just get your insurance to pay for it."
Only in America can you start a fire in a vacant house that you just insured and claim that your insurance company should pay you to replace the whole house. And if it doesn't you sue them for bad faith and get a jury to award a bunch of punitive damages. And people say the insurance companies are the bad guys. Pretty soon only the rich will be able to afford insurance and they won't need it. Sorry, I guess I joined this club to talk about Ovations, too. |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | A place in Phoenix called "fiddlers" is interesting. It's a barn that has been converted with bench seats and a small stage. Coffee bar in the back and chess tables. They have no admission charge on open mike nights, but in order to perform you have to donate non-perishable foods to the food bank. It's like 1-2 cans per song. Btw, I've never seen anyone actually play fiddle there. Dave |
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Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | {I've already had a couple owners tell me that if NJ adopts the whole "NoSmoking in Bars" edict . . . they'll just end up "folding".}
Cliff: I've heard this also, but I find it hard to believe that too many bars will fold up. From what I've read, it hasn't killed business in any other state that has a smoking ban. The other side of the coin is that many people stay away or don't hang around too long at gigs because of the smoke. I had a gig in June where half of the people that came to see me, including my father, had to leave because of the smoke being so bad.
The problem is not so much the smoke itself that bothers me. It's the rude smokers that really piss me off. They think nothing of blowing smoke in other people's faces. I'm a cigar smoker so I'm not up on a soapbox here, but a little common sence goes a long way. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | Cliff:
Self-deprecating jokes are fine with me. Let's hear that good one. :D
Mark:
I've been a personal injury lawyer for the past 12 years and have worked for both plaintiffs and defendants/insurance companies. Any bar/club owner that closes up shop and blames it primarily on the cost of insurance that drove them out of business is simply failing to own up to the fact that they were inept at running a business. Liability insurance is only a small part of total overhead which also includes rent (how 'bout blaming a greedy landlord), utilities (have your electric, fuel, gas and phone bills been going down lately?) employee salaries, maintenance, repairs, other insurance like workers' compensation and disability, taxes, accountant fees, liquor license fees, etc. What about advertising? Did they spend anything for adequately promoting their business?
The bottom line is that it is very hard to run a successful business. I ran my own pharmacy for 10 years, only to end up switching professions rather than continue competing with the ever growing number of chain stores. I blame nobody but myself for not being more successful at pharmacy. I've learned that a good businessperson is one with the ability to look ahead, be innovative and identify ways to improve, inhance and grow the business. Unfortunately, too many club owners simply think that all they have to do is open their doors and provide the basics.
Sorry to rant, but thats my $.02. |
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Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | Is that an ambulance I see? Sorry I just had to go there.
Got to love me :rolleyes:
Paul |
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December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | In a State that requires Drivers to be insured why am I paying for Uninsured Motorists?
You can still sit outside of Starbucks and smoke! I just wish they had more room for playing guitar. |
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Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Always a bummer when that happens. From personal experience/observation (and I figure cliffy and others will back me up here) the places that make it happen are the ones that work to make it happen. They advertise (press/local radio) and they finance it for 2 or 3 months to kick it off. They don't figure that a few flyers and a just let it happen attitude is going to win. One of the most successful jazz clubs in south London not only put a big effort in, but also used cheap beer as a way of kick starting Monday nights. The highly successful weekends followed from that. It's like everything in life - if you figure it's going to be easy, you fail.
But, as somebody else pointed out, it's possible Brian and Slipkid killed it. :p |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12754
Location: Boise, Idaho | Mitch,
I hate to agree with a plaintiff's lawyer, but my point is that it's not the lawyers that create the fraud or increase the insurance premiums. Rarely do the lawyers go out and create a lawsuit. The clients are either honest or not. I see a lot of doctors who think nothing of basing an opinion of whether a treatment or surgery is necessary on whether there is insurance. "Injured at home with no insurance? If this happened at work or a car accident, insurance would pay for it." All of a sudden the insured business or individual has a huge medical bill to pay and pressures his insurer to pay it.
MWoody, I hope that if you ever have a UM claim you don't milk it for all it's worth, like most of them that I see.
To bring this closer to the point of the thread, this has now become a cost of doing business. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Brad-
I'm thinking of starting a non-commercial jamclub in my backyard (weather permitting) or basement (weather not permitting). My plan is to trick really good players I'm acquainted with into performing for free (or free beer). It'd be a hike for you two, but you'd be welcome. :)
Which reminds me, I need to follow up with Matt Smith and see if he's going to be on the local public radio station any time soon (one of my pet projects). I mean, if he's going to be in the area he could headline one night here, right? Shhhh...nobody say anything, I think I see him coming...
;) |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12754
Location: Boise, Idaho | Wouldn't it be great to be in college again where every other person had a guitar and you just got together and jammed or someone would just show you how to play whatever was the latest? At least that's how it was when I was in college. Hardly learned a thing on guitar since then. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Oakville Ontario Canada | Cliff,
Here in Toronto, the bars have all been non smoking for quite awhile, and very few shut down.
But they had to make major changes ie, totally enclose the bar area, and add expensive ventilation units, or put a patio with wind protection and arena heaters!
Now everybody is happy, smokers and non smokers.
Cheers |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 2791
Location: Atlanta, GA. | Our county enacted a smoking ban in all public places including bars, etc., about 3 months ago.
The local tavern I frequent just took away all the ashtrays and provided empty beer cans for those that wanted to smoke. No one ever complained.
Yesterday I learned it is now again a "Smoking Establishment" by means of putting signs up at both doors stating such, and that no one under 18 are even allowed inside... ever! Can't have employees under 18 either.
Gotta love lawmakers!!! |
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Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 68
Location: Malden, Massachusetts | Up here in Massachusetts, the bars and restaurants went smoke-free awhile ago.
As someone who played for years in smoky bars, I don't miss it at all.
(If I do miss it, I only need to open my guitar case!)
People don't go out to smoke-they go out to a cool place for a good meal and to have a few drinks. Nothing changed except the quality of the air inside and a few loyal smokers just outside the entrance every half hour. Everyone has adjusted.
Not sure if that would work in Jersey, tho' |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Here in New York the smokers get put out in the street. Last August on a muggy windless night, I was walking in the village past some clubs, and the street was filled with smokers and a fog of cigarette smoke. Wait, what was this thread about? |
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Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 68
Location: Malden, Massachusetts | Oh, I remember - "Our venue is closing"
Remember when it was cool to say "..we CLOSED the place..." - indicating that you were amongst the last patrons standing at the bar and were asked to leave so they could close up. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Just to bring it back around....The Now & Zen was non-smoking by choice. |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | It's a shame....it was a nice place. I played with Brad and Brian over there a couple of times....
Roger |
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Our venue closes
