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Location: SE Michigan | I was just reading a thread over in another forum about Taylor prices. I have to say that the whole system of guitar pricing is F&*k%d UP! A guitar should cost the same no matter where you buy it! And it's not just Taylor, it's Martin as well with their "minimum advertised price". Other manufacturers do it as well. It should be like a can a soup with a little sticky tag on it, then that's what the freakin thing costs!! Shouldn’t matter if you are the Queen of England or a kid spending his saved up allowance, everyone should pay the same price for the same guitar!
The same holds true for new cars and airline fairs. How do you like sitting next to someone on a flight and finding out that they paid half of what you did. There ought to be a law.
I don’t have a problem paying a fair price for a product, but this is a hosed up system when you have to play these little games to get a fair price. I feel sorry for the poor uninformed people who unknowingly pay full-boat prices; do the dealers voluntarily tell them they could get it for less? It borders on criminal behavior, just a notch above outright thievery.
Could you imagine a car or guitar dealer charging one price to a white person and a higher price to a black person? Or one price to a man and another to a women? (they do it with cars all of the time!) A product should cost the same price no matter who buys it, anything else is immoral.
There, I've had my rant now. |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | It's all about how much someone is willing to pay for a product at that time. The fact of the matter is: You want, you pay my price. |
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| Some companies go to ridiculous extremes. Tthe martin MAP pricing is a crock of crap. On the MAP pricing scheme, I've heard salesman tell people that this price is as low as the manufacturer will allow. They do not tell people that it's the lowest ADVERTISED price the manufacturer will allow; however, they can sell it for less. Funny, they left the last part out of the conversation. Lasido,Taylor, and others tried the no adds on the internet so shoppers could get less info and the dealers could try the BS games on pricing. One time I had a dealer tell me there were no msrp prices and that the guitars sell everywhere for the set price. Once I pulled out the list of msrp prices and a few phone quotes from dealers, he started dropping the price at which point I just walked out. Also, I get upset when I walk into a guitar dealer with MSRP prices on the guitars hoping to catch parents buying items for their kids and not knowing that no one should pay those prices. I suppose one could argue that if you do not do the research you have no right to complain. I wouldn't agree that there should be one price for the guitar everywhere, but the deception and dishonesty inherent in some company and some dealer pricing schemes is repugnant. I agree with Tommy M that a dealer has a right to place whatever price he wants on a product. I guess I disagree with the lies told about the pricing, and at times, the manufacturers attempt to hide the actual sales pricing. |
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Location: SE Michigan | "You want, you pay my price"
Funny, but some things do not work that way. I work for a large national Telephone company and every level of government across the country tells us what we are allowed to charge for phone service!
What about the recent gasoline prices? If a gas station owner marks his price up due to a hurricane or a terrorist attack (a legitimate market factor), the state Attorney General hammers him for price abuse! What's fair for one should be fair for all.
Again I just feel sorry for the poor saps who pay full boat prices, and I despise the dealers that smugly take it from them. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Telephones and gas are necessities in today's world. Guitars are not (but they should be :D ) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by BrianT:
Could you imagine a car or guitar dealer charging one price to a white person and a higher price to a black person? What makes you think it doesn't happen ??? |
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Location: SE Michigan | I would argue that telephones and gasoline are NOT necessities, they are luxuries that consumers choose to use. Just cause some dumb-ass buys a Hummer and house in the suburbs does not convert his chosen luxuries into necessities. There are many-many poor people who manage to get by without either cars or telephones. There is after all public transportation and payphones.
And talk about necessities; what about food prices, prescription drugs, rent and mortgage rates, and basic medical care? These seem to me to be much more a necessity that gasoline and telephones, but it's a wide open market for these things. Funny what some poeple consider necessities.
But I have an idea for guitars, the manufacturers should advertise the wholesale price that the dealer pays, or require that it be posted on the product's hang tags. Then the consumer could decide "is this dealer worth the markup I am paying?" And everyone would be on equal footing because everybody would know what the dealer paid. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Brain, with all due respect, I don't understand your point. What you are saying applies to every single consumer item out there. Why should guitars be treated any different than toothpaste. I don't demand to know how much the Piggly-Wiggly pays for a tube of Crest. So what if Best Buy charges $10. less for the same LCD monitor that Circuit City sells. And somebody payed way more than that because they didn't shop around for the best deal. Not every guitar shop charges the same price. They all have different price structures, different overhead costs, etc. etc. If someone wants to spend a month scouring the country for the best deal, they can do that. If someone wants to walk into GC and pay near list they can do that too. Do you personally feel like you have been ripped off in some purchase? I'm not questioning your opinions, just curious where this is going. Dave |
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Location: south east Michigan | I think Brian is talking about having to engage in a verbal dance with a salesman to arrive the best price possible. The price of an LCD monitor is listed on the tag and that's it. It's easy to compare with Circuit City's tag.
Brian might be reffering to "haggleing". I hate that too. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I guess my point is the unfairness of aledged "open markets". Some products like guitars, cars, and toothpaste, the retailer can charge whatever he can get away with. But on other things like telephone service, gasoline, and othe utilities, the government regulates the market.
Now that I think of it, I am in favor of goverment controls on guitar prices!!! LOW PRICE GUITARS FOR THE MASSES!!! FORCE THE GOVERNMENT TO SUBSIDISE G.A.S!!! YOU ARE ENTITLED TO DOZENS OF HIGH-END LOW PRICE GUITARS!! STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!! |
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Location: south east Michigan | Hey Brian....eeeeeeasy boy, easy. |
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Location: NJ | sounds like communisim to me |
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| ..buyer beware...caveat emptor...always read the small print between the lines...and another thing!.. exxon-mobile could cut gas prices in half and still make billions every month!...but the government controls the gas prices AND the people now when it should be the other way around, and by the way, socialism is first step before communism and we are smack dab in the middle of it right now...wooaaah boy, calm down...relax and do some strummin'...
Steve |
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Location: SoCal | Only talking about my favorite guitars (Ovation & Adamas). Well, maybe Applause for their tenor uke.
Guess it is unfair that some buyers don't know about the OFC. If they did, they would know about Al. Doesn't bother me that Al has given all of us the opportunity to buy new instruments at better prices than I have seen on the internet or in the stores. He has made the extra effort (and risk) to advance order so that we could get low numbers of limited issues.
In January of 2004, I didn't even ask the price of the 2004 Anniv Custom Legend (eventually bought two). In January and February of 2004, I didn't even ask the price of the 1777LX (eventually bought two.)
In the last two years, bought two 30th Anniv CL's, two 1777LX's, the U681T slothead Adamas, the 1687 reissue Adamas, tenor uke, and 2005 Collectors'. These were new purchases. I have never seen lower prices unless it was a MAP violation. In addition, fair valuation on a couple of trades.
Yet, Al does not take advantage of his position with the OFC - notice that he doesn't discuss his pricing on the OFC and doesn't list his prices on his website. His typical response to a thread question is for the individual to email or call him.
I have no problem with a MAP. Properly enforced, the MAP protects the dealer network. Working within the MAP and the dealer contract, dealers can set any higher price that they feel is profitable. We see Brother Bobby listing some limited run guitars at far higher prices than even Guitar Center/Music 123 (if they have it) will sell for. No problem. We see local stores selling guitars for more than eBay/internet.
New A's or O's - I call Al. Good price and good service.
:) :cool: :) |
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Location: Upper Left USA | When I got permission to buy a new guitar back in October of 2003 I did what research I could and found offerings in Music 123 and Musician's Friend. I ended up buying a 2003 Celebrity Deluxe Collector's, the Honey Coated Panel Meister. Then I found this website and received a more formal education in the quality of Ovation and Kaman instruments.
The rest is history.
You can't beat good research and being an informed Customer. Airlines especially rely on the trusting and desparate. Energy and Fuel price controllers are a separate level of Hell and deserve to be punished for what they do wrong.
I appreciate every price quote I have gotten from Al! He may die a poor man but I love him! |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Hey Brian, what sre you complaining about? Heck, if I could afford that brand new Taylor, electric acoustic, I would never complain about Ovation prices. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | "New guitar pricing system really sucks".
What really sucks is that I usually want what I can not afford.
Dave |
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Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Standingovation:
"New guitar pricing system really sucks".
What really sucks is that I usually want what I can not afford.
Dave No, what really sucks is needing what you can not afford. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | How true. I thank my lucky stars. Dave |
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Location: Midland, MI | I thank your lucky stars, too, Dave. ;) |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Then after that is having what you can not afford. |
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Location: SE Michigan | But seriously folks, my whole rant was started because of some comments on another forum about being prohibitied from talking about guitar pricing in the Taylor forum. Can you imagine, someone makes a product then prohibits people from talking about it's price?
"Hey mister, how much is that guitar? depends on how much you got kid?"
It's just flat out silly bullshit all the games played with pricing in this country, whether we are talking about guitars or whatever. |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Brian,
I know what you're talking, As a Taylor owner, I would visit their forum. When I learned the rule about, No price talk, I thought what kinda sh*t is that? Also note, that 2 years ago, Taylor disavowed itself from the forum, and shut down their previous Taylor forum, as its members were bad mouthing the vendor producing their ES system. If you notice, the present forum falls under the acoustic guitar forum. Taylor plays games with pricing, and you can't seem to pin down across the board selling prices. |
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New guitar pricing system really sucks!
