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Location: Central Florida | Originally posted by Lanaki:
sanctity of/for life becomes a non-issue in a world where its young people are taught they are simply a matter of chance and not children of a Loving Creator. the tendency towards violence in any form, but especially as "entertainment", is merely a symptom of the deep void in the value of life.
if we allow our children to be exposed to the idea that there exists a Loving Creator and that human life is not an "accident" merely occurring through an evolutionary process, the mind and spirit are elevated to respect all life, our own and the lives of others. Wonderful post, Lanaki. |
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| "if we allow our children to be exposed to the idea that there exists a Loving Creator and that human life is not an "accident" merely occurring through an evolutionary process, the mind and spirit are elevated to respect all life, our own and the lives of others."
Complete bollocks.
Explain The Crusades, the current world-wide Muslim uprising, the Salem witch trials, the Holocaust. Belief in a "Loving Creator " has only ever inspired people to kill other people who believe in a different "Loving Creator".
Only Buddhists have taken the message to heart. Anybody says different is lying through their teeth. The devoutest of Americans would subscribe to what Lanaki says and then claim that Virginia Tech had nothing to do with gun availability. Have the courage of your convictions or don't post sanctimonius crap. |
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| God is not the problem. The crusades where not God's idea, Muslim uprising's are not God's idea, the witch trials were not God's idea, and the holocaust was not God's idea. But God does have spiritual enemies who tempt the heart of man to do things such as ocurred at VA Tech yesterday. We can outlaw all the guns on the planet, but it will not change the heart of man... |
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| A man with a bad heart can't shoot 32 people. A man with a gun can. |
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Location: Up North | Schroeder, anyone can claim "this is the reason why it happened". But how can you make sense of a senseless act?
I do agree with you that through the ages there has been far too much killing in the name of religion.
Gun availability hasn't stopped mass killings in countries like Canada or the UK (L'Ecole Polytechnique or the Hungerford massacre for instance). Where there's a will... |
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Location: NJ | ". . Where there's a Will..."
Please, . . let's NOT bring Lawyers into this one! . .. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | schroeder - what does teaching children that they "come from a loving creator" have to do with all of the despicable things that you mentioned? All of those events were the result of some person or group in power with an agenda. They use that power to their own means. You can take all of that away and the notion of a loving creator still exists - or even a non-loving creator. Whatever form of loving creator Randy talks about is irrelevent. Everyone has their own interpretation. What gives you the right to call him a liar? Are you the ultimate authority on religion? You've pretty much insulted most people of faith, americans and Randy in particular all in one post... good job. |
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Location: big island | aloha schroeder,
i am speaking of a belief that impacts and transforms the heart of an individual not mere lip-service to some idealogy that becomes skewed away from the Creator's intent as is evidenced through the human tragedies you mention.
TRUE belief in a Loving Creator leads one to esteem others better than himself and causes him to consider "whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure. whatsoever things are lovely and are of good report and are virtuous."
mankind has misrepresented God's character throughout the ages bolstered by the opposing force. there is indeed a Great Controversy going on and it is between the forces of good and evil.
in this life we've been granted we will see evidence of both sides and decide for ourselves which one we will subscribe and cling to.
good music played on ovation guitars is but a glimpse of heaven. |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Originally posted by Lanaki:
good music played on ovation guitars is but a glimpse of heaven. So true Randy. I've said it before......if every child was given a guitar at birth there might be less hate and bloodshed in the world.
I'm not religious but I do have respect and love for my fellow man, and even bad music (in my case) played on an Ovation is a spiritual experience. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Here's an interesting fact: Murder and suicide rate among athiests is lower than in any other known relegion. Explain that!
But let's not get this discussion sidetracked. I feel absolutely aweful about this tragedy. Especially having college age kids myself living far away from home. It could have just as easily been them.
I wish that Al Sharpton was an engineering student at Va Tech.
Dave |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by schroeder:
A man with a bad heart can't shoot 32 people. A man with a gun can. a man with a bad heart doesn't necessarily have to have a gun to kill 32 people. he will find other means. the gun is not the issue.
government sponsored gun control will remove guns from men with good hearts and the man with the bad heart will still find one if he wants to. |
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Location: big island | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Here's an interesting fact: Murder and suicide rate among athiests is lower than in any other known relegion. Explain that
Dave first, i think this info is very skewed by an agenda and secondly, i reiterate "TRUE belief..." |
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Location: south east Michigan | It is very unfair to lump Lanaki with those who have hi-jacked a faith and used it to their own ends.
If I may make the assumption I beleive Lanaki, like myself and others here, are trying to teach a belief system that in the end boils down to the OFC motto. Be Kind To Eachother! My main responsibilty is to make sure my children are let loose on the world with a good sense of right & wrong... good & evil.
Personally, I don't care what form of belief or NON-belief is used just as long as we have half a chance of ending up on the same page.
edit:
are trying to teach a belief system By this I mean within our own house. As I conduct myself out in the wide world I can only hope that I conduct myself in a way that a person of any faith or any NON-faith would find worth if friendship. |
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Location: south east Michigan | ..WORTHY OF friendship..
darn edit time! |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Mark and Dave mentioned having kids in college,I have a kid in college too,He`s studying Jura,and his reaction to the dreadful news was that of anger, and I sense anger in schroeder`s comment,and I too ,fail to see that children who have been wronged,or did not receive love or were not told of Jesus,are more prone to crime,and it is much easier to kill with a gun,but I also sense a defiance with the american crowd,to them I say,do not feel guilty,there was nothing that you could have done to prevent that from happening,look,in danmark people in general do not have firearms,yet,in 1994 a similarity occurred at the university of Aarhus ( DK),student walked into the uni`s canteen,fired several times,two female students down,several wounded,perpetrator committed suicide,it does happen outside the USA , so, now we mourn, and then let us find out how we can stop a crazy maniac from harming us !!
Vic |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by cliff:
". . I Don't Like Mondays . ." Sir Bob's words once again give pause to reflect. |
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| You are all wilfully misreading me.
I did not say that a belief in a "Loving Creator" means you belive in murder.
Read it again.
What I said was that belief in a "Loving Creator" is absolutely no guarantee that you won't commit murder.
The Crusaders believed they were doing the right thing - the current wave of Muslim suicide-bombers believe without a doubt that they are doing God's will. The Salem elders believed they were doing right. The medieval witch-finders of England believed they were doing right. And so it goes.
The way an intellectual argument works is that you propose a statemnent ("if you teach children about a Loving Creator") and I counter it with an argument that negates that fact. It's how all universities teach and have taught for the last thousand years. With all due respect nothing anybody has written remotely approaches my argument. I have cast no doubts or insults at anybody's beliefs. My children attend church EVERY week and are very active in our church. I have never attempted to take them away from their beliefs, nor would I ever do such a thing.
I state, clearly and openly, that a declared belief in a "Loving Creator" does not in any way stop mass, random murder; nor does it stop premeditated mass murder on the grounds of truly held beliefs.
I have no arguments that could be refuted in any department of Philosophy in any Western Country. If you can't make an intellectual case for yourself, bow out. Whether or not I am anti-religious is somethinmg you can't infer from anything I have written.
What I object to is academically retarded arguments that have no respect for the meaning of words. If you can't defend your belief in an acceptable manner, don't bother. From Erasmus to Desmond Tutu there is a perfectly easy argument to make for faith. If ypou're too stupid to make it, don't try. It is that simple. There are departments of theology in almost every university in the world. It doesn't take a half-baked apologist on a guitar site to dream up an argument to defend the Crusades or anything else. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Thanks to those who have attempted to keep this on topic, which is about the tragedy that happened. I received an email from a friend in that area who attended classes in the places where this occurred, and for him, it just hit a little close to home.
As this has nothing really to do with guitars, and it seems to have run it's course I am freezing this thread. It's a good read, but there is nothing else to say that hasn't already been said. |
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VA Tragedy
Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2007
