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Nocturne![]() |
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Joined: August 2013 Posts: 8 Location: SE Michigan | Hello, I've been lurking around for a while, soaking up information, but this is my first post. I have a Breadwinner that I've been cleaning up. I believe this is a very early model: It has the Toroidal pickups, the jack on the bottom, plain battery hatch and simple neck plate. The serial number is three digits with no letter prefix, in the 800s. When I first got it the battery connectors were gone, so I wasn't sure if the electronics were working. I was very happy to find that once I attached new clips it worked! I believe all is well with the preamp. I've adjusted the pickup trim pots and pickup heigth. The neck is very straight. There are several nicks and chips in the finish, mostly on the bottom edge and headstock. The headstock logo looks very fuzzy--I wonder if it's been touched up. There is moderate fret wear (I'll try to get some photos). Both knobs are missing and the pots are quite scratchy. There is some chrome missing form the pickups. Two of the caps are missing form the tuners. I have the original case that is a little beat up. My Question: The bridge is very low--the strings ends are completely buried. I know the bridge can be raised by the nut in the battery compartment, but is it normal to have to do this to change the strings? Is this a sign that the neck needs to be shimmed? Also, the serial number doesn't seem to fit nicely into the chart. Am I right in thinking it's from 1972? Does the plain neck plate mean it's rare? Thanks for your help. | ||
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Mr. Ovation![]() |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7236 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Welcome. Based on the configuration Its's likely a 1972/73. E.g. early. The toroidal pickups, nylon saddles and end jack along with the plain battery cover and neck plate. What is odd, is the serial although when I tried to enlarge the picture of the back, it looks like the serial is 4 digits, not three. Please clarify. If it starts with a letter, that's important. The serial info is in the FAQ section. As far as the nut adjustment, that only adjusted the height of the back of the bridge. The height adjustment is done with the studs. How far down the back of the bridge is pulled (the strings pull up, the nut pulls it down) is a factor of several things. Generally, the action is set based on the neck angle and the feel you are going for. After that, the rear of the bridge is adjusted so the strings go over the saddles and then down to the back of the bridge. It's to keep the pressure of the strings on the saddle. I have seen where the balls end up being below the surface of the guitar, and I have seen them above. If the saddles are worn, it might cause them to have to be lower. Somewhere around are the specs for the angle the strings need to take going over the saddles, but I've never considered it that critical, just ensure there is a decent angle to apply pressure on the saddles. Hope this all helps. | ||
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Damon67![]() |
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Joined: December 2006 Posts: 6996 Location: Jet City | mileskb - 2015-09-09 10:20 PM Welcome. Based on the configuration Its's likely a 1972/73. E.g. early. The toroidal pickups, nylon saddles...
Are those nylon? They look brass to me. | ||
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Nocturne![]() |
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Joined: August 2013 Posts: 8 Location: SE Michigan | Thanks for the info, Mr. Ovation! That is very helpful. The saddles are nylon--I forgot to mention that. They are a little dirty. That might make them appear darker in the photo. I'll try to upload a close-up of the bridge. And yes, the serial number is definitely 3 digits in the 800s w/ no letter prefix. That confuses me a little. Thanks again! | ||
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Nocturne![]() |
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Joined: August 2013 Posts: 8 Location: SE Michigan | Here's a pic of the saddles and the back of the bridge. As you can see, the ball ends are completely below the face of the body. To change the strings I'll have to loosen the nut in the battery hatch, right? The string pressure on the saddles seems fine, so I assume the downward pressure is within range. | ||
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Nocturne![]() |
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Joined: August 2013 Posts: 8 Location: SE Michigan | I meant to say, I assume the string break angle is fine. | ||
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Damon67![]() |
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Joined: December 2006 Posts: 6996 Location: Jet City | Those are definitely nylon. They looked more yellow in the other pic. That back angle looks steep, but I'd have to see it from the side to be sure. Are you able to get strings in there? My bridge is usually setup flat. That one looks angled backwards. Oh, you're a full member now, so feel free to post in the main sections where every can respond. Welcome to the Club | ||
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Nocturne![]() |
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Joined: August 2013 Posts: 8 Location: SE Michigan | damon67 - 2015-09-10 12:15 PM That back angle looks steep, but I'd have to see it from the side to be sure. Are you able to get strings in there? My bridge is usually setup flat. That one looks angled backwards. No, I can't get strings in there as it is. I wasn't sure if that was normal. I haven't tried adjusting the bridge at all yet. I'll post a pic from the side later tonight. And thanks for letting me into the club!!!
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Mr. Ovation![]() |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7236 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I agree with Damon, the angle looks a tad steep. I would adjust the nut to where you can get the strings on without doing surgery and as long as there is some angle you should be fine. Generally if the bottom of the bridge is setting level in the guitar you should be fine. As for the serial, while you are adjusting the bridge, just take it off and look for serial in the bridge cavity. A trick many of us use is to loosen the strings and put a capo as high up on the neck as possble. Then you can just take the nut off the back and lift the bridge off without having to re-string. If you haven't already started a new thread in the General section, I'll move this one there upon your response so others can join in. So what is the 4th splotch where the serial number is on the neck plate? Also, the posts for the pre-amp knobs... are they smooth or knurled? | ||
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Damon67![]() |
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Joined: December 2006 Posts: 6996 Location: Jet City | Like Miles says, plate should be level. In the picture below, you can see that with the plate level the saddle adjustment screws are on the same plane as your strings. If the plate was inclined either way, you would be affecting action at the same time you were trying to set your intonation. different guitar and saddles, but the same bridge...
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Nocturne![]() |
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Joined: August 2013 Posts: 8 Location: SE Michigan | Thanks. Please do move the thread. Without having the guitar in hand to look at, I think you're right about the angle. I'll check tonight and take more photos. I see what you're saying about affecting action when setting intonation. The knob shafts are smooth. Here's a closeup of the neck plate. (Sorry for my masking paranoia--I'm never sure if that's necessary.) I'll check the bridge cavity for markings, as you suggest. | ||
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Mr. Ovation![]() |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7236 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | That serial number is a puzzle for sure. That neck plate style started on the Breadwinner so it's not like someone could have swapped a neck plate, but they were well past three digit serials by time the solid bodies started. That looks original with my only thought being that I thought the serial number was stamped near the bottom on these not the top. | ||
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Nocturne![]() |
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Joined: August 2013 Posts: 8 Location: SE Michigan | You were right about the angle of the bridge. Here's a photo before I removed and re-positioned it: No markings on the bottom of the bridge or in the cavity, just more of the disintegrating foam: I've heard of a couple of other people on this forum that have early Breadwinners with three-digit serials numbers, one with 0xx. I sent a PM, but I don't think he's active any more. Miles, you have one with 1xxx where the last three digits seem to be added later? | ||
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Mr. Ovation![]() |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7236 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Nocturne - 2015-09-13 7:14 PM I've heard of a couple of other people on this forum that have early Breadwinners with three-digit serials numbers, one with 0xx. I sent a PM, but I don't think he's active any more. I have a X010 which indicates it's a prototype of sorts. If I recall the info correctly they layed out and assembled the first ten of the run to take to NAMM and numbered them X001 thru X010. I also have the first completed Breadwinner or true prototype.
Nocturne - 2015-09-13 7:14 PM Miles, you have one with 1xxx where the last three digits seem to be added later? Not sure which one you mean. I only have three at this time. The third actually a Deacon in the E-1xxx range.
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